# Should African-Americans focus on minor racial insults? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 12, 2002, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-african-americans-focus-on-minor-racial-insults/108660 "2002-05-12T18:34:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-african-americans-focus-on-minor-racial-insults/108660/81 "2002-05-15T20:58:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Polycarp \*Not myself being black, I cannot fathom the sort of feeling that a black person must feel in having to regularly defend himself or herself from an accusation of one sort or another based effectively on his or her being black. > > In short, if you think the issues are “slight” it’s because they’re not goring **your** ox. It’s 2002. Today’s college students were raised in any era when Oprah Winfrey and Bill Cosby held top rank on TV. We have a Black Secretary of State and a Black National Security Advisor. College kids in New Jersey, by and large, never experienced the time of awful prejudice. However, they were raised in an era of _Biggest Victim Wins_. > [@](#): > > But this sort of situation makes it clear that there is still a strong point to groups speaking out on what it means to be black in an America that is still in many ways not comfortable with black people. Maybe so. You come from a religious POV; I come from an economics POV. I believe that, to a certain degree,\* people do things for which they are rewarded.\* In the psychology 1948, there was no advantage to being a victim. Jackie Robinson could get no benefit from complaining about slights. If you’ve ever read about his experiences in breaking Baseball’s color line, you know that he was insulted, spat upon, and viciously harassed by opposing teams, fans, etc. It served his purpose, not to complain, but to show his strength of character by keeping his temper and letting his accomplishments on the field speak for themselves. Today we live in an era of victimology. Playing the victim can be monetarily rewarded in lawsuits and can bring power in politics. So, when the BSU complained about a student masquerading as Tiger Woods, it could be that they were truly upset, or it could be that they were attempting to play the victim in an effort to gain power. Their three demands seem to imply that the latter interpretation is correct. BTW, there’s a fine line between compassion and condescension. At what point does sympathy for being sensitive morph into criticism for being thin-skinned? ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-african-americans-focus-on-minor-racial-insults/108660/82 "2002-05-15T22:11:21Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by december \* > \*\* It’s 2002. Today’s college students were raised in any era when Oprah Winfrey and Bill Cosby held top rank on TV. We have a Black Secretary of State and a Black National Security Advisor. College kids in New Jersey, by and large, never experienced the time of awful prejudice. However, they were raised in an era of Biggest Victim Wins.Maybe so. You come from a religious POV; I come from an economics POV. I believe that, to a certain degree,_ people do things for which they are rewarded.\* \*\* are you truly suggesting that a couple of appointed positions in the current administration plus a couple of high profile entertainers (gee you forgot the sports figures) _really_ balances out the fact that these college student’s parents and grandparents lived through seperate but equal, back of the bus seating, lynch mobs etc. **and** that they won’t notice that those few prominent folks you mention are easily called to mind since they’re, well, rare? certainly they’ve picked up on the fact that the only place that blacks seem to be over represented in this country is in the field of corrections. I think they might notice these things a bit more than you suspect. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2002, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-african-americans-focus-on-minor-racial-insults/108660/83 "2002-05-16T00:03:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\* It’s 2002. Today’s college students were raised in any era when Oprah Winfrey and Bill Cosby held top rank on TV. We have a Black Secretary of State and a Black National Security Advisor. College kids in New Jersey, by and large, never experienced the time of awful prejudice. \*\* Interesting you should mention New Jersey. Type “New Jersey Turnpike” and “black” into Google. Go ahead, it’ll be good for you. For some real fun, try “New Jersey Turnpike” “black” “shooting.” No, really, give it a go. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2002, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-african-americans-focus-on-minor-racial-insults/108660/84 "2002-05-16T00:21:30Z")
really nice catch **manny** - he should remember some of that stuff since he was (IIRC) in a thread here about racial profiling in NJ ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2002, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-african-americans-focus-on-minor-racial-insults/108660/85 "2002-05-16T01:27:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by manhattan \* > \*\*Interesting you should mention New Jersey. > > Type “New Jersey Turnpike” and “black” into Google. Go ahead, it’ll be good for you. For some real fun, try “New Jersey Turnpike” “black” “shooting.” No, really, give it a go. \*\* Interesting experiment. Of course racial profiling totally wrong. The Google hits seem to also support a different point: the number of Blacks shot by troopers on the NJ Turnpike is a lot lower than the number shot by other Blacks. So, an unexpectede conclusion could be that the problem of Black-on-Black crime is even more worthy of attention than the problem of racial profiling. Anyhow, racial profiling on the NJ Turnpike is now fortunately a thing of the past. It’s time to move on and solve other problems, like public safety and education. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2002, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-african-americans-focus-on-minor-racial-insults/108660/86 "2002-05-16T02:06:00Z")
I had been assuming that the blackface student case was in NJ, because it was posted by a doper from NJ. Turns out it was Syracuse University. Here’s some [more details](http://volokh.blogspot.com/?/2002_05_12_volokh_archive.html). > [@](#): > > **Eugene Volokh** > > > [@](#): > > > > From **The Syracuse University student newspaper** > > The Sigma Alpha Epsilon fraternity faces suspension and Aaron Levine, one of its white members, faces expulsion after Levine painted his face, arms and hands black Tuesday night and went to several Marshall Street bars dressed, he said, in his Tiger Woods costume. > > > > ``` > > In a matter of hours after Levine showed up at one bar, word spread, especially among black students, that Levine was dressed in blackface. By midnight, some students gathered at the Schine Student Center to talk about the incident; others confronted Levine and his fraternity brothers at the bars. > > > > By noon the next day, a late night plan for a protest calling for, among other things, Levine’s expulsion from the university, unfolded. . . . > > > > Levine’s case has been turned over to the Office of Judicial Affairs, where he faces several Code of Student Conduct violations including harassment and disorderly conduct, said SU spokesman Kevin Morrow. > > > > ``` > > ``` > Wearing blackface, offensive as some might find it, is quite clearly protected by the Constitution -- the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit specifically held this in Iota Xi v. George Mason University, 993 F.2d 386 (4th Cir. 1993), but this is a pretty clear application of standard First Amendment doctrine. > > Syracuse University is a private university, and it’s not bound by the First Amendment, which applies only to government-run schools.... > > ``` Based on this report, I may have been wrong in assuming motive. It sounds as though these Black students really were upset. ---
**Author:** ![DPWhite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d26b3c/32.png) [@DPWhite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPWhite)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2002, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-african-americans-focus-on-minor-racial-insults/108660/87 "2002-05-16T02:17:18Z")
Walnut Creek has changed a lot in the 10 years I have lived here and become much more mainstream. But even before I moved here we had the largest Democratic Club in the state. I still find it hard to believe that December was a dues paying member of the NAACP for 25 years. And some of my conservative friends were activists in Berkeley during the 60s. For Republicans. No area or group is homogeneous in this country. Why just in August 2000 I was in Los Angeles where I met a liberal Congresswoman from Orange County who beat Bob Dornan in a fair fight (twice?). While there are certainly a number of African American conservatives, most active African Americans I know are decidedly liberal, at lest 9 out of 10. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2002, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-african-americans-focus-on-minor-racial-insults/108660/88 "2002-05-16T03:16:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DPWhite \* I still find it hard to believe that December was a dues paying member of the NAACP for 25 years You could check with the NAACP computer. They call me from time to time and invite me to rejoin. I even traveled to a rally in Washington to hear a speech by Martin Luthor King at the Washington Monument in 1958. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2002, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-african-americans-focus-on-minor-racial-insults/108660/89 "2002-05-16T15:37:07Z")
There are, undoubtedly, a number of black people in this country who are highly successful and respected. (And note that what I would guess to be a majority of sports celebrities, across the range of professional sport, are black or of mixed race and considered “black” in the American idiom – just as a minor anecdote, I was once brought short by the office manager at a place I worked, a German woman immigrant who had married a black G.I. after WWII – that people (including my own statement that was the proximate cause of her comment to me) considered her kids “black” due to their father and their complexion – when they’re half German. ) However, if you’re going to play the economics game, perhaps you’d care to bring forward the U.S. census statistics for income range and race; I’m sure they’re correlated. And I’d venture to guess that by percentage you’ll find a very disproportionate share of people identifying as black among the low-income and very-low-income categories, and few of them among the upper middle class. I’m speaking not from a strictly religious POV but from an **ethical** POV. While mine is conditioned by my religious beliefs, I’d venture to guess that those who agree with me that there’s an ethical responsibility present and a prudential need to follow the Heidegger warning for the sake of self, are by no means confined to those who share my religious view, and that a fair share of Neopagans, agnostics, atheists, and others scattered across the panoply of American diversity agree in essence with the ethical stance I suggest. To be sure, there will be people who see the opportunity to get rich quick by playing victim. They are not limited by sex, race, class, creed, sexual orientation, or any other category you care to identify. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2002, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-african-americans-focus-on-minor-racial-insults/108660/90 "2002-05-17T04:15:09Z")
This situation is endemic of what I call _The Disney Phenomena_. If any organization wishes to get its message into the mass media, they will have to find a twist or a hook. If a fringe religious group wants to stir up some national news, what does it serve them to go after what they perceive to be a very immoral target: Fundamentalist: Howard Stern is evil. Mass Media: Well, duh. Net media interest: zero. There will be no newspaper columns or segments on _Dateline_ dedicated to the group’s statement. The same logic applies to any political group; stating the obvious, even when it represents one of your biggest problems, generates only boredom and indifference: NAACP: The Ku Klux Klan is racist. Mass Media: Well, duh. To get media attention focussed on _anything_ requires a story with a twist. The American Life League, a conservative Christian organization based in Stafford, Virginia, has gotten free publicity for itself and its causes with the following: ALL: Disney films contain visible sexual messages. Mass Media: What? Really? Disney? Where? ALL: If you watch _Little Mermaid_ frame-by-frame… Subsequently, ALL got national attention, though much of it was derisive. The media curiosity is natural enough (“you’re accusing _Disney_?”) and the whole stunt increased ALL’s profile, bringing new memberships and donations. This college case is tailor-made for media attention. The story by its nature mixes the famous name “Tiger Woods” with the familiar but now rarely-used phrase “blackface.” Of _course_ the media will jump all over it. In a less cynical sense, a major goal of the NAACP (or any similar organization) is fighting the overt racism of the KKK, but also the casual racism of daily life. Most whites in America will _not_ join or support the KKK under any circumstances but may be fairly casual about discimination in more personal, less obvious fields, like choosing who to hire and who to promote. Millions of dollars and man-hours could be spent trying to fight white supremecists with no net gain. Better to concentrate on hearts and minds in less obvious ways. The perceived over-reaction to the blackfaced college student may alientate some whites, but at the very least the message that some things just won’t or shouldn’t be tolerated any more does get attention. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2002, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-african-americans-focus-on-minor-racial-insults/108660/91 "2002-05-17T13:05:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bryan Ekers \*In a less cynical sense, a major goal of the NAACP (or any similar organization) is fighting the overt racism of the KKK, but also the casual racism of daily life…Millions of dollars and man-hours could be spent trying to fight white supremecists with no net gain. Better to concentrate on hearts and minds in less obvious ways. The perceived over-reaction to the blackfaced college student may alientate some whites, but at the very least the message that some things just won’t or shouldn’t be tolerated any more does get attention. This makes sense to me, **Bryan**. For the reasons you provide, the “perceived over-reaction” makes a good deal of sense. Two points the other way: 1. It may alienate a more Whites and Asians than it appears to. Most people who have negative reactions may not admit it. 2. Today, most of the truly important needs of America’s underclass do not involve fighting against racists IMHO. E.g., working with local police to reduce crime, getting better education, promoting an education clture, improving people’s health, having job opportunities available, reducing drug use, and promoting marriage. Nevertheless, I do agree with **Bryan’s** point. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2002, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-african-americans-focus-on-minor-racial-insults/108660/92 "2002-05-17T16:39:50Z")
Here’s an [African-American columnist from Detroit](http://www.freep.com/news/metro/des16_20020516.html) who shares my POV. > [@](#): > > **Foe within is the hardest to confront > May 16, 2002 > BY DESIREE COOPER > FREE PRESS COLUMNIST** > > For decades, black leaders have been railing against racism, economic injustice, poor funding for public schools, poor access to health care and unemployment. But here’s our dirty little secret: None of those things has ravaged the black community in recent years more than the community has ravaged itself. > > In 16 weeks this year, 10 Detroit children – all of them African-American – have been cut down by gunfire… > > “I get e-mails from people every day questioning why I’m fighting racism in Warren when kids are dying in Detroit,” said the Rev. Horace Sheffield III, president of the Michigan Chapter of the National Action Network. > > One reason, said Sheffield, is that his efforts to address black-on-black crime don’t receive the same kind of “vim and vigor” from the black community as his protests against racism… > > “Violence is almost a way of life in the black community,” said Sheffield… > > Meanwhile, our black leaders continue to push tried and true agendas. > > On Tuesday, the Rev. Jesse Jackson, founder of the Rainbow Coalition and Operation PUSH, was in Detroit to broker more opportunities for women and minorities with DaimlerChrysler. Later, he cut short his antidrug message at Detroit’s Cass Technical High School when the U.S. 6th Circuit Court of Appeals upheld the University of Michigan law school’s affirmative action policy. > > But Sheffield said that continuing to emphasize economic justice and educational equity without also speaking out against violence “makes our agenda look askance.” > > …Pamela Martin is trying to piece together her life after the random shooting of her 8-year-old daughter, Brianna Caddell, on April 10 as she slept in her own bed. Martin said she was surprised to not have received a card or a call from some of Detroit’s most respected black leaders. > > She surmises that if her child’s killer turned out to be white, there would be more community outrage. > > Indeed, while much is made about the overrepresentation of blacks in the criminal justice system, a rare word is spoken about the disproportionate number of black victims of violent crime… > > Wake up, black America, the writing is on the wall – written with the blood of our precious children. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2002, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-african-americans-focus-on-minor-racial-insults/108660/93 "2002-05-17T16:50:26Z")
I’m so happy that you can find columnists that share your POV, **December**. If you’ll note the heading on this forum, it’s **Great Debates**. That means you **answer** other posters who may disagree with you, on a major or minor point. If it were **Great Rants** , I’m sure the administration would have made that clear. Thank you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-african-americans-focus-on-minor-racial-insults/108660.md?page=4)