# Should airlines calculate prices by the pound? Public weigh-ins before flights? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 18, 2004, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-airlines-calculate-prices-by-the-pound-public-weigh-ins-before-flights/275528 "2004-11-18T20:20:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2004, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-airlines-calculate-prices-by-the-pound-public-weigh-ins-before-flights/275528/21 "2004-11-19T02:52:39Z")
> [@](#): > > There is no mechanical/avionic reason for a weight-based system. Actually there may be. On one flight I noticed something odd. Before takeoff the flight attendant asked the people sitting in the front if one of us could move tot he back only during takeoff for weight distrubution. I agreed. I noticed as I moved back that the general weight of the passengers seemed to increase, to a very significant level. After takeoff and prying myself out of the my seat next to the tub-of-lard sitting next to me I took carful notice and did observe all the obease people on the flight were in the back. ---
**Author:** ![Abbie\_Carmichael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/49beb7/32.png) [@Abbie\_Carmichael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abbie_Carmichael)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2004, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-airlines-calculate-prices-by-the-pound-public-weigh-ins-before-flights/275528/22 "2004-11-19T07:47:47Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > After takeoff and prying myself out of the my seat next to the tub-of-lard sitting next to me :rolleyes: Never mind, can’t say it, not in the pit … ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2004, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-airlines-calculate-prices-by-the-pound-public-weigh-ins-before-flights/275528/23 "2004-11-19T13:00:21Z")
The post office/Fed-Ex/UPS are allowed to charge by weight, why not the airlines too? After all they are effectively shipping people. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2004, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-airlines-calculate-prices-by-the-pound-public-weigh-ins-before-flights/275528/24 "2004-11-19T13:30:58Z")
I don’t like like this idea, for most of the reasons already mentioned, but it’s completely irrelevant to do it as a response to the increase in Americans’ average weight. Pricing tickets based on weight could be revenue-neutral as far as the airlines are concerned. Depending on how you set the price per-pound, a 300-pound person would be paying twice as much as a 150-pounder, but the the total for a plane-full of passengers could be more, less, or exactly the same as it is now. I think this idea can be debated in terms of fairness and practicality, but to say it’s justified by the trend of people getting heavier makes no sense. And from the quoted article: > [@](#): > > But the solution lies directly beneath the floor of the passenger cabin… You think this guy’s owner puts him in a carrier when he travels? ---
**Author:** ![lee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lee/32/7455_2.png) [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2004, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-airlines-calculate-prices-by-the-pound-public-weigh-ins-before-flights/275528/25 "2004-11-19T14:18:23Z")
Everyone is missing a major point of interest. This press release alleges that the average adult is ten pounds heavier than they used to be. The average adult is older, so it should be expected that they weigh more. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2004, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-airlines-calculate-prices-by-the-pound-public-weigh-ins-before-flights/275528/26 "2004-11-19T14:35:04Z")
> [@Abbie Carmichael](#): > > :rolleyes: > > Never mind, can’t say it, not in the pit … Sorry for my insensitivity, I tend to speak very frankly in such matters, and more so when it effects me personally. FWIM’s I did actually have to ‘pry’ myself out of that seat as the person, who I assume is a good hearted person and may have a medical problem with food, actually did not fit in the seat that the evil airline provided for her, and had to sit w/ the armrest between the seats raised, so she could have her rear end make contact with the seat, with a portion of her rear on my seat as well. What is the solution to overweight people, well oversized people, in situations where space is at a premium? Not just air travel, but movies, subway, bus? ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2004, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-airlines-calculate-prices-by-the-pound-public-weigh-ins-before-flights/275528/27 "2004-11-19T16:06:57Z")
The gist of what I’ve been hearing through the news is that the average weight of a person has increased 10 lbs. and that’s been costing the airlines in fuel. I think they pulled this statistic out of their ass to explain the increased weight on airplanes. I’d be willing to put money on the fact that the increased weight on the planes is due to people bringing more crap with them on planes (carry-on and/or checked) and the lax approach the airlines have on limiting this. I don’t know how many times I have been in the check-in line and see the little box that says “all carry-on items must fit in this box” and nobody enforces it. And luggage has become “jumbo” sized so people can get the most shit for their dollar transferred through their two checked in pieces. I think they need to seriously look at charging people by weight/volume of their checked/carry-on items before they want to charge for human weight. ---
**Author:** ![Ghanima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Ghanima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ghanima)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2004, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-airlines-calculate-prices-by-the-pound-public-weigh-ins-before-flights/275528/28 "2004-11-19T18:19:37Z")
> [@Bippy the Beardless](#): > > It might be somewhat fairer if the entire weight passanger+luggage was taken into account. Then light packers would gain advantage for their efficiency. But it would also be only fair if their was a large person row or two with wider chairs for the 12-14 heaviest passangers. I agree with this statement. Have a “normal range” of body weight + luggage that accounts for 80% of passengers, priced normally. If someone is below this range, they get a discount. If you’re above, you have to pay for the extra pounds. Also, I strongly agree that if your ass is too big to fit into one seat you should be required to purchase two seats. I don’t think this is unfair at all and would even encourage people to pack more lightly. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2004, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-airlines-calculate-prices-by-the-pound-public-weigh-ins-before-flights/275528/29 "2004-11-19T18:44:16Z")
Why not just throw on a few king-sized seats, and charge a bit extra for them. Give first dibs to the heavies, and then dole them out to the less-weighty to fill the space. I know there might be a certain amount of shaming involved in having to request the 1.5-wide chair, and it may hurt more in the wallet, but is it less of a pain than squeezing your ass into a seat that’s too small and having to basically sit on top of another person for an entire flight? At any rate, the fellow being sat on would heartily endorse such a plan. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2004, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-airlines-calculate-prices-by-the-pound-public-weigh-ins-before-flights/275528/30 "2004-11-19T19:08:00Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > Why not just throw on a few king-sized seats, and charge a bit extra for them. Give first dibs to the heavies, and then dole them out to the less-weighty to fill the space. I know there might be a certain amount of shaming involved in having to request the 1.5-wide chair, and it may hurt more in the wallet, but is it less of a pain than squeezing your ass into a seat that’s too small and having to basically sit on top of another person for an entire flight? > > At any rate, the fellow being sat on would heartily endorse such a plan. I agree to this. Turn one or two of the 3 seat rows into 2 seat rows. Heavier passengers can then pay 1.5 times the regular seat price. Making them buy an entire second seat or a first class upgrade seems excessive. A 50% rate increase seems like a good compromise. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2004, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-airlines-calculate-prices-by-the-pound-public-weigh-ins-before-flights/275528/31 "2004-11-19T19:20:15Z")
A 50% premium on the average $119 realized ticket price, combined with a massive rejiggering of the airline fleet’s configuration and the complete ire of a substantial portion of the customer base to solve a 46-cent problem sounds like a good compromise to you? Let’s try this one more time. **Even if** the $275 MM figure from the report is accurate, this is a non-problem! $275 MM is a third of a percent of the airlines’ passenger revenue in 2003. Pissing off whatever percent of your customers to try to pick up a third of a percent increase in revenues to meet increased costs is a loser. An even bigger loser than real airline executives have managed to come up with on their own. Guys, it’s a silly report about a non-problem from a group with a weird ax to grind. Papers should be embarrassed that they picked it up. Let it die. ---
**Author:** ![lel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8797f3/32.png) [@lel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lel)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2004, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-airlines-calculate-prices-by-the-pound-public-weigh-ins-before-flights/275528/32 "2004-11-19T19:21:05Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > I know there might be a certain amount of shaming involved in having to request the 1.5-wide chair, and it may hurt more in the wallet, but is it less of a pain than squeezing your ass into a seat that’s too small and having to basically sit on top of another person for an entire flight? > > At any rate, the fellow being sat on would heartily endorse such a plan. Now speaking as a cheapskate fatso who’s squeezed into too many airline seats, forget it, I’m a cheapskate, I’m still squeezing into one seat. I figure you’d have to make buying supersize seats mandatory. Weigh each passenger before flying and anyone 50 lbs or more overweight has to buy half an extra seat? ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2004, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-airlines-calculate-prices-by-the-pound-public-weigh-ins-before-flights/275528/33 "2004-11-19T19:27:58Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > After all they are effectively shipping people. They are not shipping people. At best, they are shipping people+belongings. But a shipping model is totally different from an airline model because you cannot pack people like you can pack packages. It’s an analogy that stops as soon as you actually want to do something useful with it. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2004, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-airlines-calculate-prices-by-the-pound-public-weigh-ins-before-flights/275528/34 "2004-11-19T19:50:50Z")
> [@manhattan](#): > > A 50% premium on the average $119 realized ticket price, combined with a massive rejiggering of the airline fleet’s configuration and the complete ire of a substantial portion of the customer base to solve a 46-cent problem sounds like a good compromise to you? > > Let’s try this one more time. **Even if** the $275 MM figure from the report is accurate, this is a non-problem! $275 MM is a third of a percent of the airlines’ passenger revenue in 2003. Pissing off whatever percent of your customers to try to pick up a third of a percent increase in revenues to meet increased costs is a loser. An even bigger loser than real airline executives have managed to come up with on their own. > > Guys, it’s a silly report about a non-problem from a group with a weird ax to grind. Papers should be embarrassed that they picked it up. Let it die. This may be entirely correct, and I must admit, I’ve only been on one flight where I found the presence of a portly neighbor actualy oppressive. Even your average heavy-set individual is not much of a problem, or no more of a problem than a very tall person (meaning they have to get out of the seat completely if I want to access the aisle, and don’t have an aisle seat, which is a nuisance for all concerned). But man, that one flight with Jabba was a major pisser. I’m sorry if she’s got a metabolic disorder, but I was getting _sat on_. I do think a rotten flight experience like that ought to be a concern for airline execs, because with nearly all other aspects of the coach experience going down the toilet, one more makes some travelers flight-averse. You couple that with the manifestly obvious concern of a “broadening” America, and I just don’t see how they can keep shrinking seats to jam more of us on without it biting them in the ass eventually. Fat is like the new cigarette; it won’t go away untill every one of us knows somebody who dropped dead of a heart attack at 35; and even then, most will be slow to come around. In the mean time, watch that average BMI climb; and watch your average coach passenger get more and more irate. ---
**Author:** ![SusanStoHelit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@SusanStoHelit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SusanStoHelit)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2004, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-airlines-calculate-prices-by-the-pound-public-weigh-ins-before-flights/275528/35 "2004-11-19T21:21:24Z")
> [@rfgdxm](#): > > This is all kinds of interesting logic: > > Thus he is basically saying that someone who is of average weight is a fatso. He’s defined overweight as including anyone whose weight is normal. “Overweight” doesn’t mean fatter than average, it is a medical term that means having a Body Mass Index of 25 to 29.9. [cite](http://www.obesity.org/subs/fastfacts/obesity_what2.shtml). ---
**Author:** ![SusanStoHelit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@SusanStoHelit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SusanStoHelit)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2004, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-airlines-calculate-prices-by-the-pound-public-weigh-ins-before-flights/275528/36 "2004-11-19T21:29:59Z")
> [@continuity eror](#): > > Well, obviously I think this is pretty morally wrong, and that columnist is definitely an idiot. But if something like this did happen, how would prices wrt sex be worked out? Men generally weigh more than women. Would it be sexism to charge them more? What about people who are large because of a genetic problem, medication side effects, or pregnancy? Would they get an exemption, or would you just say “fat is fat”? Would there be a public outcry over the price breaks given to amputees or little people? > > It would be discrimination, plain and simple, and full of logistical problems too. You seem to think that the airlines would do this just to punish fat people. If they add a weight-based surcharge but allow medical exemptions, they wouldn’t make any money. In my experience most fat people who are aware of their weight have some medical excuse, valid or not (diabetes, joint problems, food addiction, etc) that they cling to with ferocity. No airline can expect its employees to argue with them over their excuse, and no airline is equipped to make the diagnoses that even MDs have a hard time with. ---
**Author:** ![Danalan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/76d3ee/32.png) [@Danalan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danalan)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2004, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-airlines-calculate-prices-by-the-pound-public-weigh-ins-before-flights/275528/37 "2004-11-19T22:02:38Z")
While I’m not ‘spilling over onto’ my fellow passengers, I’m a big guy: 6’4", 330 lbs. I’m the guy coming down the airplane aisle that everybody’s wishing won’t sit next to them. Since I fly nearly every week, as part of my job, this discussion is most interesting to me. If it cost me 50% more to fly, it would affect my ability to hold my job. It’s bad enough that my customers are paying $600 to fly me out for 3 days on-site. If that goes to $900, they’re going to ask for a skinny guy, instead. Of course, since I fly every week, I’m in the airlines elite program, and get a good share of my flights upgraded to first class. On the others, I get first dibs at the exit row. I go to [seatguru.com](http://seatguru.com) and research the best seats on my flights, and check-in online as early as possible to get the best choice. I don’t want to negatively impact other peoples experience – I’m clean, polite, try to be helpful and knowledgeable, and am frankly a very pleasant seatmate. But I take all of the space alloted me in coach. The problem with this whole discussion is that it should be the airlines job to keep up with the average weight of their passengers + luggage. It seems that somewhere along the lines someone came up with a number (perhaps the FAA), and no-one every questioned or updated that number. Now it’s coming to light that the number’s wrong. What needs to happen is to jigger the number so it accurate reflects reality, not jigger society in some arbitrary manner. Weighing people at the counter just isn’t going to happen. However, some policy for the truly massive is clearly necessary. If someone takes more than their allotted space, there is no reason that another passenger must be inconvenienced. I’d simply stand up, and refuse to sit down until there was an actual, entire seat available for me. Seems to me that aviation safety would demand that each passenger have their own seat. If someone else has 20% of mine, I’m surely not going to try to get by with 80% of a seat. It just isn’t safe. ---
**Author:** ![Ghanima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Ghanima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ghanima)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2004, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-airlines-calculate-prices-by-the-pound-public-weigh-ins-before-flights/275528/38 "2004-11-19T22:42:04Z")
Fair enough, but it seems to me that the airlines are a bit ridiculous with the space they allow per person! I have to squeeze into those seats, and I would definitely call myself “average” sized. So anyone who’s taller or fatter than me has a hell of a time, and that just isn’t right. Those seats should be at _least_ three inches wider and three inches farther apart. That would save people so many problems it would practically eliminate this discussion. But instead we are forced to sit in spaces too small for us. On one of my more recent flights I watched three big guys - obviously related - walk onto the plane. I’m one of those people who always requests an aisle seat so I can stretch out a bit. These three very tall, lumberjack-like guys all tried to squeeze into a single row. The two on the middle and outside were fine, but the guy by the window was obviously miserable. He couldn’t sit straight, and he had to tilt his head because of the curve of the airplane!! I have a brother with a physique like this so I was feeling very sorry for him. After he talked to the stewardess and tried to get another seat and couldn’t, I finally stood up and offered him to trade my seat. He looked positively dumbfounded, said “OK” and switched without even a “Thank You.” I wasn’t expecting fawning or anything but that guy benefited from MY planning ahead. The situation could have been avoided by him and his brothers realizing that the three of them just shouldn’t sit together. Alternatively, the airline simply shouldn’t assign those window seats to people that large - it’s ridiculous. That guy was lucky I was so nice. But next time I won’t be because it didn’t even get me a frickin’ “thank you” and I was way more uncomfortable after I moved. That’s what you get for being nice to strangers. Grumble grumble. ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-airlines-calculate-prices-by-the-pound-public-weigh-ins-before-flights/275528/39 "2004-11-20T00:45:47Z")
> [@Danalan](#): > > Only if they also provide proportionally larger seats for the bigger people. > > Actually, a big part of the airlines problem is that they aren’t accounting for the weight of all the carry-on bags. I fly nearly every week, and on most flights there’s a scramble to fit all the bags in the overhead. People are tired of waiting for their bags, and of losing their bags, so more people are packing 35 extra pounds of crap into rolling carry-on bag. > > The airlines could easily determine how heavy their passenger + baggage load was, on average, by doing some representative sampling. After you weigh the first couple thousand people and their carry-ons, an average will be pretty plain. This could be done in one small airport, in one day. > > Say everyone going through Hartford-Springfield on January 12th steps on a scale (while holding their carry-ons) after going through security. Issue solved. > > Adding further complexity to the labyrinthine pricing of airline seats would not be a positive step, I think. I concur. I once saw someone try to stuff into the overhead what appeared to be two bodybags. Actually it was two suitbags that were overstuffed. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-airlines-calculate-prices-by-the-pound-public-weigh-ins-before-flights/275528/40 "2004-11-20T01:04:17Z")
I am guilty of bringing in a lot of carry-on baggage. I am aware of the limits and I try to keep my bags within those limits (in part because it’s really miserable lugging a lot of bags around when you have to transfer). The reason I bring the maximum allowable amount of carry-on is because I usually have a tight schedule to keep (places to go, people to see—who doesn’t?) and I don’t want to worry about lost checked baggage. I’ve had it happen before. I’ve seen it happen to others. You have to wait around and hope that your luggage surfaces on a later flight. Sometimes it never does. If airlines would regain our trust, so we wouldn’t worrry about our checked luggage going AWOL perminantly, more of us might check more bags. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-airlines-calculate-prices-by-the-pound-public-weigh-ins-before-flights/275528.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-airlines-calculate-prices-by-the-pound-public-weigh-ins-before-flights/275528.md?page=3)