# Should alcohol rehab disqualify someone from owning a gun? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 18, 2016, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-alcohol-rehab-disqualify-someone-from-owning-a-gun/775006 "2016-12-18T00:21:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![boffking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/858c86/32.png) [@boffking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boffking)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-alcohol-rehab-disqualify-someone-from-owning-a-gun/775006/1 "2016-12-18T00:21:50Z")
[https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.sunjournal.com/news/oxford-hills/0001/11/30/police-say-minister-shot-daughter-hebron-murder-suicide/2042832&ved=0ahUKEwjl-ce2u\_zQAhVj0YMKHVP2AtgQqQIIGigBMAA&usg=AFQjCNGxuMLi22G9pnykGk-Nj8lznntGgw&sig2=LxiImLa\_ZC0XFXGwcDwqCQ](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.sunjournal.com/news/oxford-hills/0001/11/30/police-say-minister-shot-daughter-hebron-murder-suicide/2042832&ved=0ahUKEwjl-ce2u_zQAhVj0YMKHVP2AtgQqQIIGigBMAA&usg=AFQjCNGxuMLi22G9pnykGk-Nj8lznntGgw&sig2=LxiImLa_ZC0XFXGwcDwqCQ) A couple weeks ago, a man had gotten out of rehab for alcohol abuse. He bought a shotgun on his way home, and immediately used it to kill his daughter and then himself. Substance abuse is already a disqualifier for buying a gun. Should being in detox/rehab for alcohol abuse also disqualify someone from a firearm purchase? ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-alcohol-rehab-disqualify-someone-from-owning-a-gun/775006/2 "2016-12-18T00:45:47Z")
Yes; lets further discourage alcoholics from getting the help they need. Further, lets take away their right to vote and search for Pokemon. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-alcohol-rehab-disqualify-someone-from-owning-a-gun/775006/3 "2016-12-18T01:03:04Z")
> [@OP](#): > > Substance abuse is already a disqualifier for buying a gun It is? Apart from being convicted of a felony??? ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-alcohol-rehab-disqualify-someone-from-owning-a-gun/775006/4 "2016-12-18T02:25:26Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > It is? Apart from being convicted of a felony??? [18. U.S.C. 922](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922): > [@](#): > > (d) It shall be unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person— > > …(3) is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802)); And [Form 4473](https://www.atf.gov/file/61446/download) (the form for purchasing a firearm from a licensed firearms dealer) specifically asks " Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?", separately from the questions about being a felon, fugitive from justice, and so on. ---
**Author:** ![GaryM](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garym/32/241_2.png) [@GaryM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaryM)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-alcohol-rehab-disqualify-someone-from-owning-a-gun/775006/5 "2016-12-18T02:29:47Z")
I don’t believe alcohol is considered a controlled substance. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-alcohol-rehab-disqualify-someone-from-owning-a-gun/775006/6 "2016-12-18T02:49:34Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > [18. U.S.C. 922](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922): > > And [Form 4473](https://www.atf.gov/file/61446/download) (the form for purchasing a firearm from a licensed firearms dealer) specifically asks " Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?", separately from the questions about being a felon, fugitive from justice, and so on. > [@GaryM](#): > > I don’t believe alcohol is considered a controlled substance. Yep. And let’s explore what the meaning of “is” is. Are we saying that Obama could not buy a gun? He’s admitted to using marijuana and cocaine. The code says no one who “is an unlawful user” of or addicted to a controlled substance. What is" “an unlawful user”? Note that [21 U.S.C. 802 defines an “addict” but not “an unlawful user”.](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/21/802) ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-alcohol-rehab-disqualify-someone-from-owning-a-gun/775006/7 "2016-12-18T04:05:49Z")
In the [sixth circuit](https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=16202784618578839848&hl=en&as_sdt=6&as_vis=1&oi=scholarr): > [@](#): > > The term “unlawful user of a controlled substance” means a person who uses a controlled substance in a manner other than as prescribed by a licensed physician. A one time use of a controlled substance is not sufficient to be an unlawful user under the applicable statute. Rather, the Defendant must have been engaged in the regular use of a controlled substance either close in time to or contemporaneous with the period of time he possessed the firearm. The law does not require that the Defendant used the controlled substance at the precise time he possessed the firearm. An inference that Defendant was an unlawful user of a controlled substance may be drawn from evidence of a pattern of use or pattern of possession of a controlled substance that reasonably covers the time a firearm was possessed. The [BATFE](https://www.atf.gov/file/60211/download)has said: > [@](#): > > Therefore, any person who uses or is addicted to marijuana, regardless of whether his or her State has passed legislation authorizing marijuana use for medicinal purposes, is an unlawful user of or addicted to a controlled substance, and is prohibited by Federal law from possessing firearms or ammunition. Such persons should answer “yes” to question Me. on ATF Form 4473 (August 2008), Firearms Transaction Record, and you may not transfer firearms or ammunition to them. Further, if you are aware that the potential transferee is in possession of a card authorizing the possession and use of marijuana under State law, then you have “reasonable cause to believe” that the person is an unlawful user of a controlled substance. As such, you may not transfer firearms or ammunition to the person, even if the person answered “no” to question 1 Le. on ATF Form 4473. And the [BATFE](https://www.ttb.gov/rrd/tdatf391.htm)rulemaking: > [@](#): > > Such use is > > not limited to the use of drugs on a particular day, or within a > > matter of days or weeks before, but rather that the unlawful use has > > occurred recently enough to indicate that the individual is actively > > engaged in such conduct. A person may be an unlawful current user of > > a controlled substance even though the substance is not being used > > at the precise time the person seeks to acquire a firearm or > > receives or possesses a firearm. An inference of current use may be > > drawn from evidence of a recent use or possession of a controlled > > substance or a pattern of use or possession that reasonably covers > > the present time, e.g., a conviction for use or possession of a > > controlled substance within the past year, or multiple arrests for > > such offenses within the past five years if the most recent arrest > > occurred within the past year. Alcohol doesn’t count. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-alcohol-rehab-disqualify-someone-from-owning-a-gun/775006/8 "2016-12-18T04:13:14Z")
> [@boffking](#): > > … Should being in detox/rehab for alcohol abuse also disqualify someone from a firearm purchase? No. ---
**Author:** ![IlikePlants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8491ac/32.png) [@IlikePlants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IlikePlants)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-alcohol-rehab-disqualify-someone-from-owning-a-gun/775006/9 "2016-12-18T04:36:53Z")
After a stable and documented period of sobriety, NO it shouldn’t. For that matter, Felons who served their debt to society and haven’t committed additional crimes should have ALL of their rights restored, including their right to bear arms. ---
**Author:** ![boffking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/858c86/32.png) [@boffking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boffking)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-alcohol-rehab-disqualify-someone-from-owning-a-gun/775006/10 "2016-12-18T05:04:06Z")
> [@IlikePlants](#): > > After a stable and documented period of sobriety, NO it shouldn’t. > > For that matter, Felons who served their debt to society and haven’t committed additional crimes should have ALL of their rights restored, including their right to bear arms. I don’t think it should be a permanent ban either, but there does need to be a period of sobriety after leaving rehab. In the link in my OP, the killer literally bought the weapon on his way home from the detox facility. He then immediately murdered his daughter with it. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-alcohol-rehab-disqualify-someone-from-owning-a-gun/775006/11 "2016-12-18T05:11:03Z")
If the killer left his doctor’s office would you think that disqualifying? Post office? A restaurant? Seems like reaching to add more disqualifying circumstances. This is part of the reasons people oppose background checks for private party sales. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-alcohol-rehab-disqualify-someone-from-owning-a-gun/775006/12 "2016-12-18T23:07:20Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > In the [sixth circuit](https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=16202784618578839848&hl=en&as_sdt=6&as_vis=1&oi=scholarr): > > The [BATFE](https://www.atf.gov/file/60211/download)has said: > And the [BATFE](https://www.ttb.gov/rrd/tdatf391.htm)rulemaking: > > Alcohol doesn’t count. What’s really most fucked up is the prominence of Marijuana on these rules. Surely anyone who has been around both knows a stoner with a gun is far, far less scary than a drunk with a gun. Brilliant public policy, that. ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-alcohol-rehab-disqualify-someone-from-owning-a-gun/775006/13 "2016-12-19T19:14:27Z")
> [@boffking](#): > > I don’t think it should be a permanent ban either, but there does need to be a period of sobriety after leaving rehab. In the link in my OP, the killer literally bought the weapon on his way home from the detox facility. He then immediately murdered his daughter with it. Besides the fact that the number of people who leave rehab and then immediately murder someone is very low, how exactly would the confidential medical information become known to gun dealers? Slee ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-alcohol-rehab-disqualify-someone-from-owning-a-gun/775006/14 "2016-12-19T19:22:11Z")
I can’t get a FOID card in Illinois because I saw a psychiatrist once. Gotta love that Bill of Rights! ---
**Author:** ![quimper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7c8e57/32.png) [@quimper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quimper)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-alcohol-rehab-disqualify-someone-from-owning-a-gun/775006/15 "2016-12-19T19:54:10Z")
> [@boffking](#): > > [Redirect Notice](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.sunjournal.com/news/oxford-hills/0001/11/30/police-say-minister-shot-daughter-hebron-murder-suicide/2042832&ved=0ahUKEwjl-ce2u_zQAhVj0YMKHVP2AtgQqQIIGigBMAA&usg=AFQjCNGxuMLi22G9pnykGk-Nj8lznntGgw&sig2=LxiImLa_ZC0XFXGwcDwqCQ) > A couple weeks ago, a man had gotten out of rehab for alcohol abuse. He bought a shotgun on his way home, and immediately used it to kill his daughter and then himself. Substance abuse is already a disqualifier for buying a gun. Should being in detox/rehab for alcohol abuse also disqualify someone from a firearm purchase? No, but this story is an excellent argument for a [waiting period](http://smartgunlaws.org/gun-laws/policy-areas/gun-dealer-sales/waiting-periods/). States with waiting periods have 51% fewer firearm suicides and 27% fewer suicides overall.