I’m having the opposite experience: A bunch of distant delivery dates that end up being much more reasonable. One item came three weeks before the date they gave.
My post was about the legal contract aspect, which UV seemed to focus on.
I do agree that it would be shitty under normal circumstances. On the other hand, I think you’d be a complete idiot to sign up for Prime for 2-day shipping if you hadn’t already seen a significant amount of the stuff you ordered or wanted to order would get free 2-day shipping. So this would only be an issue if Amazon changed it after the fact.
But that’s under ordinary circumstances. These are not ordinary circumstances. We do have to limit ourselves to the possible. Amazon is getting a lot more orders now, and it’s reasonable that they would have to let up on 1- and 2-day shipping to pull it off. As long as it’s only a necessity, I’m fine with it, because you still get a good deal with just getting free shipping that’s faster than normal shipping.
I am against some idea that Amazon needs to refund customers due to what the global pandemic is forcing them to do. If you no longer think Prime is worth it, you are free to cancel and sign back up once things return to normal.
Assuming they do, of course. If they don’t, then I’ll be right there with you protesting, even though I actually can’t cancel my subscription (without losing out on the special deal). But, right now, it’s still worth it for the video and the fact that I can actually get things from a reputable seller with free shipping that’s faster than the others.
(You have to compare Prime with what else is available, not with what it ideally would be if not for the pandemic.)
Same here. I’ve not had anything come late. In fact, lately everything comes a day earlier than they say it will. The cheap SD card I ordered for my mom’s tablet came today when it was scheduled to arrive tomorrow. The back massager I got her (as she has a worn out vertebra) came a day early. The batteries which were out of stock came a day early. All of my food/vitamin stuff came a day early–making some of it two-day when it said it wasn’t.
Hell, they used UPS for that SD card. Amazon always uses USPS around here.
If you actually do get items late, then I do see why you would be upset. I continue to argue that you can cancel, however. I’m pretty sure even those who do yearly payments can even do so.
It’s not two days from when it’s in stock, it’s two days from when it’s shipped. An important distinction. I’m looking at a few items right now (Wednesday) that are in stock but say they’ll be delivered by Monday or even a week further out from that. If I were to call and ask about that, they’ll remind me that Prime shipping only refers to the time in transit, it has nothing to do with when it’s shipped, only how fast it’s shipped.
They get really nitpicky about that kind of stuff. A while back I was having a lot of problems with getting next day shipping. The person, on their public facebook page for all to see, linked to this page and in a less than polite way said that I should refer to that page and I’ll see that they do not offer anything called ‘next day shipping’. They were actively denying that it was even possible to order something and get it the next day. For those of you not clicking on the link, they were right, they do not have ‘next day shipping’ they have ‘one day shipping’ which very specifically says ‘get items the next day’.
I understand trying to keep up multiple conversations and having a brain fart, but they had to go and get that link. Surely they skimmed the page to make sure it was the one they wanted.
I keep hearing this argument that the pandemic “forced” them to do this. So far no one has come up with a reasonable explanation of how the pandemic reprogrammed all their computers so that essential items are delivered before non-essential items. They want to do it this way, they’re choosing to do it this way, the pandemic did not make them physically unable to deliver a doorknob* to me in two days but a food dehydrator showed up at my door in less than 48 hours.
*Doorknob, Prime, Ships from and sold by Amazon.com, in stock, can’t be delivered until May 1, 9 days (7 business days) from now.
I’m not asking about ethics or the greater good or anything like that. I’m asking someone to explain exactly why Amazon is physically not able to get this to me in two days as opposed to them choosing not to in order to give priority to other items.
Them prioritizing some deliveries over others would be acceptable if it were something they must do, right? How would it be any less acceptable if it were merely something that they should do? Or are you saying that they shouldn’t prioritize essential items?
Because changing logistics to support delivering needed materials during a time of public emergency is in the common good. The fact that you are inconvenienced is immaterial.
I’m not sure I ever even suggested that they shouldn’t do what they’re currently doing. I’ve been asking for clarification on what people mean when they’re saying that Amazon had no choice in the matter.
That’s exactly what I’ve been saying. They changed their logistics. They made a choice to ship things differently. My point being that it’s not out of their control.
I’m not talking about right or wrong, I’m talking about making a choice vs an act of god deciding for them.
My understanding: Yes, they made a choice to prioritize essential over non-essential items. But, even if they had not made that choice, the pandemic has made it physically impossible for them to deliver all orders, of the type they used to promise two-day delivery on, within two days. This is because of the vastly increased number of orders they have to fulfill due to the pandemic and because of other difficulties the pandemic has caused.
As for that specific doorknob, I don’t know. I notice that, as of right now, there is only one in stock, and I could WAG that the May 1 delivery date is Amazon’s ass-covering in case more than one person orders one at the same time. Or maybe the warehouse where that one doorknob currently resides could be several unreliable links away from the person who orders it in the delivery chain.
They couldn’t ship all their orders same day because of increased demand. That’s the part that’s out of their control.
They could have just delayed shipment of all items equally. Instead they chose to prioritize household and medical items over items that are generally less urgent.
So are you saying they should be penalized for that specific decision?
That makes sense.
That’s really the only thing I’ve been saying. It’s a choice they made. I’m not arguing the ramifications of that choice, simply that it was a choice.
The only thing I’ve said even remotely close to that is that I’ve feel a goodwill credit would be in order. Not required, not even covered in any agreement I implicitly or explicitly have with them, just some goodwill.
Like I said above, that’s really all I’m looking for. Others are arguing that orders being reprioritized is out of their control.
That was just a random item I picked. Here’s a different one that states April 30 (8 days from now).
PS, I stripped the names from the quotes since I seemed to have gotten parts of them intermixed with each other.
You keep ignoring the fact that the conditions on the ground changed; fewer flights, workplace restrictions, workers getting sick or unable to come to work, increased demand for critical supplies, new government regulations. Changes had to be made. The only question is which ones were to be implemented and you’ve yet to come up with any better options. The fact that changes were needed was out of their control. The specific changes they chose were somewhat in their control, but the only ethical choices available were taken.
You keep saying they made a choice to screw the Prime customers, and fundamentally you are wrong. They made a choice to act morally and legally in time of national emergency. There’s no need for compensation unless you can show that some other course of action was legal, moral, and available. So, can you?
I’m not required to come up with a better option. I’m not why you think I would be.
I said they made a choice to re-prioritize deliveries. If I suggested that they were doing it to screw prime customers, I didn’t mean to.
I’m not sure how I can better spell out that I’m not talking about legality or morality or ethics.
Please read what I have stated twice in this thread. An Act of God only allows the promising party to cancel the contract. Which means if they use one of these defenses, such as impossibility or impracticability or Act of God, all that means is we go back to square one.
They can use that defense so that I cannot sue them for expectation damages like I really needed that tablet for work and I lost money because it didn’t arrive in two days (although I’m sure the adhesion contract already disallows expectation damages).
But under no circumstances, zero, nada, can a party fail to perform yet still get full payment. That is an unconscionable “you pay no matter what” clause that we talked about on the first page. It just doesn’t happen.
Let’s think of it this way. You pay me $30 to deliver a truckload of horse manure to your house (no jokes about my arguments being just like horse manure. 
) I take your $30 and promise to be back with your load of manure in the morning.
During the night a lightning bolt strikes the propane tank outside of my house, causing the house to explode killing my wife and children, all the horses, destroying my truck and setting the barn and pastures on fire burning all of the horse manure. I am also left a quadriplegic.
Do you believe that I can keep the $30? Of course not. What if we had a written contract for the manure and I put some words in there? Can I still keep the $30? Of course not. No judge or jury is going to look down on me or think I am a terrible businessman, but the bottom line is you paid $30 and did not get what was promised, even though it is nobody’s fault.
Why do you and others think this situation with Amazon should be different? I’m not saying that they are a terrible company. I’m not saying that they are deliberately trying to screw me or that they shouldn’t reprioritize shipments. I am just saying that legally, they owe me some money back.
I seriously doubt you are correct, but let’s wait for a lawyer to chime in.
I am a lawyer. I deal mostly in criminal law, so I could be wrong about this, but am pretty confident I am not.
Well then I guess Amazon will be paying dearly in the imminent class action lawsuit.
Well, one way in which the Amazon situation is different is that two-day delivery isn’t THE thing you’re paying for with Prime; it’s one of several benefits.
Would it be more like if you paid to stay at a hotel, and the pool was unavailable while you were there?
Would it be more like if you paid for tickets to a music festival, and one of the big acts had to cancel?
Or, since the issue is how long the delivery takes, would it be like your horse manure example, but you arrange to have the manure delivered a couple of days later than originally promised?
I am not a lawyer but I took business law in school. In the case of an Act of God you cannot be held liable for results prevented by the event. Your premise that it allows the promising party to cancel the contract does not make sense.
If you contract someone to do something and it is completed but is delayed due to an Act of God then all the provisions were met within what is legally reasonable.
Excellent points, both and you may be right, but I’m not all the way there yet.
First, I agree that two day shipping was only part of what was promised and they delivered on the rest. But that is why I am only asking for a partial refund, the pro rata value of two day shipping.
The hotel with the pool closed for a week for maintenance is a good example. I worked on a tort case when I was in law school for a death in a hotel, but as I was reviewing the discovery, the hotel adhesion contract had something in it to the effect of:
“The parties covenant and agree that the consideration paid for the hotel room, is consideration for the room only and that any other advertised amenities, including but not limited to swimming pools, internet access, fitness centers, restaurants, and lounges are offered on a good faith basis and may be closed at times for maintenance and repairs and in the case that such advertised amenity is not offered during the duration of the hotel stay, the customer is entitled to dick or fuck all in refunds at his choice…” or something like that.
Is that enforceable in an adhesion contract? Is it really fair for the hotel to say “pool” on their website and then not offer it once you arrive? Surely, once you got there and they said the pool was closed, you would have a right to a refund and go to another place, no?
It is further contained in an adhesion contract and will typically not be enforced if goes against reasonable expectations, and a judge might rule that “Hey, pools close from time to time, so it is unreasonable for a hotel guest not to expect that a pool will be open 365 days a year with no down time.” Or a different judge might say that sure pools will close from time to time, but you cannot expect a customer to pay the same rate for a room with a pool versus a room without a pool.
Further, and something I will think more on, in a typical contract, time is usually not of the essence or a bargained-for term. If I order a widget and you promise me a week’s turn around time, and it took two weeks, then I really am not out anything.
You may say that is the same with Amazon as the new pair of shoes or the hot tub testing strips don’t inconvenience me that much if they arrive after two days, but my issue with that is that the fast shipping was a material term of the contract. It typically costs a decent amount of money for two day shipping, but Amazon says if you pay us this extra money, you get unlimited two day shipping on Prime items for the next year.
It would be like the horse manure contract where the price was $25 for the manure and an extra $5 if I got it there the next day. Wouldn’t you agree that if I made arrangements to get it to him the next week, he should still get his $5 back?
Even before the pandemic was a big news item, Amazon had been slipping on “2-day” shipping on Prime items to me. Yes the transit time in the hands of USPS/UPS/FedEx was 2-day, or even overnight. But it was often taking Amazon several days to ship the item and they only seem to guarantee 2-day shipping, not 2 days until arrival after you order.