# Should America re-install Hussein as President? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 16, 2004, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-america-re-install-hussein-as-president/264686 "2004-09-16T14:03:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2004, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-america-re-install-hussein-as-president/264686/61 "2004-09-17T00:03:09Z")
> [@grienspace](#): > > Ah, Solution #2. Unfortunately I don’t quite think that will be very popular around here, because for a start that will require four more years of Bush. You weren’t serious were you? > > However if you forgo the hook on those " idiots who thought up this fucking mess" that still leaves you with the proposal to escalate this war . Rather LBJ don’t you think? :rolleyes: No. Bush admits responsability, does not win in November (or better yet, bows out accepting personal responsability for his mismanagment, makes whatever restitution he and his cronies can pony up). Tax cuts/spending programs that were his pets are recinded. We’ll still be left w/a substantial mess, but at least: 1. chance that **some** planning will be done, and done correctly. 2. IMHO, as long as those responsible for the mess are still “in charge”, insurgents etc have no reason to believe that their situation will be improved. Prosecution of a few prison guards will not remove, for example, the stain on our reputation from Abu Graves. 3. there may be an end eventually to the mess. As long as the Bush administration refuses to concede that they fucked up big time, and things are getting worse there, there is **no** chance to solve the problem. One must acknowledge there is a problem before one can attempt to solve it. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2004, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-america-re-install-hussein-as-president/264686/62 "2004-09-17T00:17:47Z")
> [@grienspace](#): > > I snipped the obligatory Bush bashing. Sorry. As you wish. > [@grienspace](#): > > Didn’t the US already finance the creation of an entity to take over Iraq? doesn’t seem to work though. Whether you’re referring to the monstrosity that was installed on 28Jun04, or to Paul Bremer’s interim regency, neither one meets the requirement I posited of the USA not calling the tune, for all that we are paying the piper. As I said, we’re going to have to get on our knees and eat some shit and open our checkbook. Whoever gets installed, the installing **cannot** be perceived by Abdul Sixpack as being done by the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2004, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-america-re-install-hussein-as-president/264686/63 "2004-09-17T00:30:23Z")
> [@grienspace](#): > > if you think you can come up with a better solution to the present problem then lets hear it. Otherwise FUCK OFF ! In hope of expediting things, the first thing we should do is pull the kid gloves off. They should have killed Sadr when the first rolled in, and anyone else for that matter. It sounds bad, but in avoiding killing Sadr, more people died. This lovey dovey warfare don’t work, stomp them, and stomp them fast. Then we need to look for the first half-assed exit that presents itself, and pull the hell out of the country, forget the Iraqis. I know it sounds insane, but once we’re out of there, perhaps they’ll focus on their inevitable civil war and forget about us. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2004, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-america-re-install-hussein-as-president/264686/64 "2004-09-17T00:31:37Z")
WTF is up with **Gawd** ’s and **grien** ’s posts warping to the bottom? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2004, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-america-re-install-hussein-as-president/264686/65 "2004-09-17T00:35:43Z")
> [@wring](#): > > :We’ll still be left w/a substantial mess, but at least: > > 1. chance that **some** planning will be done, and done correctly. Okay then, your solution is to be revised as (to paraphrase) “Let’s gamble on Kerry”. Fuck, I wish I knew exactly what Kerry’s gonna do! ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2004, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-america-re-install-hussein-as-president/264686/66 "2004-09-17T00:39:49Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > WTF is up with **Gawd** ’s and **grien** ’s posts warping to the bottom? I think it’s because they have they have those incorrect post times on them. It looks like it’s taking the real times a while to catch up with the erroneous times. It’s like a bunch of people posted from the future and the board hasn’t gotten there yet. but I think that once the real time gets past those post times the board will sort itself out again. We’ll just have some freaky out of order posts. It is kind of funny reading some of the threads to see the angry responses to insults come up before the insults. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2004, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-america-re-install-hussein-as-president/264686/67 "2004-09-17T00:42:12Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > In hope of expediting things, the first thing we should do is pull the kid gloves off. They should have killed Sadr when the first rolled in, and anyone else for that matter. It sounds bad, but in avoiding killing Sadr, more people died. This lovey dovey warfare don’t work, stomp them, and stomp them fast. Then we need to look for the first half-assed exit that presents itself, and pull the hell out of the country, forget the Iraqis. I know it sounds insane, but once we’re out of there, perhaps they’ll focus on their inevitable civil war and forget about us. Thanks, we need to hear possible solutions. That is a brave post. I’m not agreeing though, because I think the US owes the Iraqis their best chance at peace and stability which they once had but America took away from them. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2004, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-america-re-install-hussein-as-president/264686/68 "2004-09-17T01:12:18Z")
> [@grienspace](#): > > Okay then, your solution is to be revised as (to paraphrase) > > “Let’s gamble on Kerry”. > > Fuck, I wish I knew exactly what Kerry’s gonna do! I will be the first to admit that Kerry is a bumbling fool. I will point out that I feel it’s important to vote for someone _other_ then Bush for the very impression it will make on the world. First off it says that we as a country don’t approve of what Bush has done, and that we made a mistake. Secondly Bush isn’t going to fix anything, he’s the very problem we need fix. The world will want to work with a new guy simply because he didn’t cause most of the problems we currently face. I think the world has an axe to grind with Bush and we’re better off with anyone except him. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2004, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-america-re-install-hussein-as-president/264686/69 "2004-09-17T02:40:11Z")
> [@grienspace](#): > > Okay then, your solution is to be revised as (to paraphrase) > > “Let’s gamble on Kerry”. > > Fuck, I wish I knew exactly what Kerry’s gonna do! Short of handing control of our nuclear arsenal to Ronald McDonald (who is probably less likely to do something silly with it than W), I don’t see how he could do _worse_. Of course, you’ll never know that, because this post will probably appear as the new OP. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2004, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-america-re-install-hussein-as-president/264686/70 "2004-09-17T03:54:51Z")
I am posting from the future. Just one of those weird nights when that sort of thing can happen at the Dope. Kerry won my a narrow margin because some people who had planned to vote for Bush realized that he really didn’t make good decisions. The lights are on in Iraq. The elections were successful. Civil war has been avoided. Oil is flowing freely. Halliburton has been replaced by a smaller, more efficient company that does not require four star hotel accomodations. **Grienspace** survived his traumatic brush with Frank Burns Syndrome and returned to full health. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2004, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-america-re-install-hussein-as-president/264686/71 "2004-09-17T04:59:22Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > Kerry won my a narrow margin because some people who had planned to vote for Bush realized that he really didn’t make good decisions. I guess in the future they _don’t_ have a spell- and context-checking AI feature on the SDMB… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2004, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-america-re-install-hussein-as-president/264686/72 "2004-09-18T10:22:36Z")
**Grienspace** , removing a murderous dictator but replacing him with terrorism, insurgency, and death would make you grateful? Will your demands for gratitude be as strong once it’s revealed that the UK knew it would turn into a fuckup due to lack of US planning? That replacing Saddam would bring chaos? [Evidence](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/09/18/nwar118.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/09/18/ixnewstop.html) in the form of leaked top-secret documents has emerged that the UK, and in particular Foreign Secretary Jack Straw, had severe doubts about the US’s abilities for reconstruction, _but went ahead with the invasion anyway_. (This is from the Daily Telegraph which, it should be noted, is one of the most conservative papers in the UK.) > [@](#): > > "What will this action achieve? [wrote Straw] There seems to be a larger hole in this than anything. Most of the assessments from the US have assumed regime change as a means of eliminating Iraq’s WMD threat. > > “But none has satisfactorily answered how that regime change is to be secured, and how there can be any certainty that the replacement regime will be any better. Iraq has no history of democracy so no-one has this habit.” They also reveal the inevitability of the war, despite Blair’s protestations to the contrary: > [@](#): > > Mr Bush had reportedly told one aide: “F\*\*\* Saddam. We’re taking him out”. It no longer seemed to be a question of if; all the discussion was of how soon, with increasing talk of an invasion that autumn when conditions on the ground in Iraq would be ideal. The leaked documents indicate that the UK was not convinced of any immediate threat from Saddam’s WMD: > [@](#): > > "The truth is that what has changed is not the pace of Saddam Hussein’s WMD programmes, but our tolerance of them post-11 September… > > …even the best survey of Iraq’s WMD programmes will not show much advance in recent years on the nuclear, missile or chemical weapons/biological weapons fronts: the programmes are extremely worrying but have not, as far as we know, been stepped up. They also back up Kofi Annan’s assertion about the illegality of the war: > [@](#): > > Any British action had to be “narrated with reference to the international rule of law”, Mr Straw insisted. He warned that his legal advisers were telling him that it would almost certainly need a fresh UN mandate to make it legal, a mandate the Americans didn’t feel was necessary and the rest of the Security Council was unlikely to give. He questioned the rationale behind the whole enterprise. [Another report](http://www.news24.com/News24/World/Iraq/0,,2-10-1460_1591534,00.html) provides the most damning statement yet: > [@](#): > > The other document, sent to Blair by foreign policy adviser Sir David Manning after a trip to Washington in March 2002, stated: “I think there is a real risk that the (Bush) administration underestimates the difficulties.” > > “ **They may agree that failure isn’t an option, but this does not mean they will necessarily avoid it** ,” Manning wrote. This reinforces my belief that the PNAC and its followers, including Bush, were so convinced by their own bullshit about Iraqis handing flowers to troops in the streets that they neglected the important matter of nation building. And the Iraqi people and allied troops are bearing the cost of this short-sightedness on a daily, murderous, basis. I would find it difficult to be grateful in these circumstances too. ---
**Author:** ![bheadxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/13edae/32.png) [@bheadxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bheadxxx)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2004, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-america-re-install-hussein-as-president/264686/73 "2004-09-18T13:27:58Z")
> [@grienspace](#): > > Do I detect sarcasm? Are you suggesting that Iraqis do appreciate the sacrifice of American lives towards their liberation? All I’m saying is that you seem like an intelligent person, who knows **a lot** about the Iraqi people. You should be out there in Iraq doing the good that you are preaching. You should be among the Iraqi civilians (who can’t even fucking protect their kids from repeted random kidnappings) conquering them, yourself. Not waiting for a dictator to do it. YOU should be out there oppressing them. > [@grienspace](#): > > Yah right. That was just a stupid ignorant comment on your part ! Tell me your solution Fuckhead! You want my solution, I would scan North America, Europe or Australia for those who supported this war (all those slimey greasy chicken hawks), and drop them in the middle of Iraq before the war started, just to let them get the full force of all the stages of chaos. I would put them in there, not as solders mind you, but as civilians. The poor ones, the weak ones, the ones who have to hide from the bombings, the ones who have to worry about their children, family, and EVERYONE THEY LOVE from being hurt/killed/traumatized from rebels, Americans, criminals, whatever. My solution would be for them to suffer, and SUFFER, and **SUFFER**. Badly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-america-re-install-hussein-as-president/264686.md?page=3)