# Should Americans Bow Before Monarchs? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 3, 2008, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-americans-bow-before-monarchs/432067 "2008-01-03T01:22:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2008, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-americans-bow-before-monarchs/432067/61 "2008-01-03T20:55:32Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] Did you attend law school, askeptic? [/quote] yes > [@](#): > > Did that involve work? Some, less than one might think . > [@](#): > > Have you practiced as an attorney? Yes, successfully. Still do. > [@](#): > > Did that involve work? Some but it is not that hard comparatively, excluding some trials. > [@](#): > > Have you sat as a judge and decided a close case? No, but I have watched some morons flip a proverbial coin. Furthermore juries decide cases for the most part. Judges mainly sustain or overrule objections(that’s where the coin comes in…) > [@](#): > > Does that involve work? Not necessarily and besides that’s not what you said. You implied that they were entitled to the honorific due to their hard work. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2008, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-americans-bow-before-monarchs/432067/62 "2008-01-03T21:01:29Z")
I would never bow before the queen of that fascist regime. She ain’t no human being. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2008, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-americans-bow-before-monarchs/432067/63 "2008-01-03T21:05:36Z")
[QUOTE=Argent Towers] I would never bow before the queen of that fascist regime. She ain’t no human being. [/QUOTE] Both my Humor Meter and my Rationality Meter must be broken because neither one even budged… ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2008, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-americans-bow-before-monarchs/432067/64 "2008-01-03T21:28:05Z")
[QUOTE=yojimbo] I’m from a Republic. Nope, I wouldn’t bow. [/QUOTE] Consider that your last invite to Windsor :mad: 😉 Reminds me, if I’d had the dedication to do my Duke of Edinburgh Gold award I could have met the grand old Duke himself. I wonder how my (Irish nationalist) grandfather would have taken seeing his grandson shake hands with Mr Edinburgh. Probably not well, which is strange seeing as how the pair of them would have had roughly equal racist tendencies 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2008, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-americans-bow-before-monarchs/432067/65 "2008-01-03T21:38:44Z")
Nobody who is not a subject of the Queen (or any other monarch/ruler) is required to pay anything more than the normal courtesies applicable to a foreign head of state. And even her subjects are not required to bow under most circumstances these days. ---
**Author:** ![JohnM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/848f3c/32.png) [@JohnM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnM)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2008, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-americans-bow-before-monarchs/432067/66 "2008-01-03T21:41:49Z")
[QUOTE=askeptic] > [@Argent Towers](#): > > I would never bow before the queen of that fascist regime. She ain’t no human being. Both my Humor Meter and my Rationality Meter must be broken because neither one even budged… [/QUOTE] Whoosh. Compare with: [QUOTE=J. Rotten] God save the queen She ain’t no human being There is no future In England’s dreaming [/quote] ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2008, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-americans-bow-before-monarchs/432067/67 "2008-01-03T22:13:30Z")
[QUOTE=JohnM] Whoosh. Compare with: [/QUOTE] Does it also explain the fascist regime part? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2008, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-americans-bow-before-monarchs/432067/68 "2008-01-03T22:13:31Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] **Ravenman** , the difference is that the persons you cite were not born to their positions, they obtained them by work or by possessing the skills or talents required for the job. A queen has done nothing to merit “Your Majesty” other than being born to the position. We don’t have inherited titles here (our current president notwithstanding) and I do not feel bound to respect inherited titles. [/quote] Do you factor in anything other than how someone came to get their title? For example, let’s say there was a king who did lots of things you personally approve of. Would you then feel okay about respecting protocol? [QUOTE=askeptic] Does it also explain the fascist regime part? [/QUOTE] The part I was really tempted to respond with in a tongue in cheek, but got concerned about misinterpretation, is thus: God save the Queen The fascist regime, They made you a moron A potential H-bomb. I couldn’t figure out how to do the moron part without landing on the wrong side of a mod. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2008, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-americans-bow-before-monarchs/432067/69 "2008-01-03T22:19:05Z")
[QUOTE=askeptic] Does it also explain the fascist regime part? [/QUOTE] Yeah - “God save the Queen. The fascist regime.” Same song. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2008, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-americans-bow-before-monarchs/432067/70 "2008-01-03T22:32:10Z")
[QUOTE=PaulParkhead] Yeah - “God save the Queen. The fascist regime.” Same song. [/QUOTE] Wouldn’t be an Irish song would it? Otherwise I don’t get it. That’s OK though, I don’t get spotted dick either… ETA: Never mind I didn’t notice the J. Rotten in the first mention, so its a Punk thing. Never was a huge Sex Pistols fan… ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2008, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-americans-bow-before-monarchs/432067/71 "2008-01-03T22:35:07Z")
[QUOTE=askeptic] Wouldn’t be an Irish song would it? Otherwise I don’t get it. That’s OK though, I don’t get spotted dick either… [/QUOTE] It’s a song by the Sex Pistols called “God Save the Queen” which was a huge hit in the UK on the occasion of Her Majesty’s Silver Jubilee in 1977. It caused a bit of a rumpus at the time. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2008, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-americans-bow-before-monarchs/432067/72 "2008-01-03T22:36:07Z")
[QUOTE=Struan] It’s a song by the Sex Pistols called “God Save the Queen” which was a huge hit in the UK on the occasion of Her Majesty’s Silver Jubilee in 1977. It caused a bit of a rumpus at the time. [/QUOTE] _ahem_^ ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2008, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-americans-bow-before-monarchs/432067/73 "2008-01-03T22:43:42Z")
[QUOTE=Ravenman] Do you factor in anything other than how someone came to get their title? For example, let’s say there was a king who did lots of things you personally approve of. Would you then feel okay about respecting protocol? [/QUOTE] Yep. A prince doesn’t get credit from me just for being born a prince; on the other hand, a prince can’t _help_ being born a prince. If, having been born thus, such a one acquits themselves well, I would not deny them their honorific. They’d have to be pretty damned majestic, though. 😉 Actually, it’s sort of a catch-22. The most majestic thing I can imagine in a royal would be an egalitarian streak. And a royal possessing an egalitarian streak probably wouldn’t be much interested in being addressed as “Your Majesty.” ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2008, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-americans-bow-before-monarchs/432067/74 "2008-01-03T22:45:32Z")
[QUOTE=askeptic] _ahem_^ [/QUOTE] Yeah I noticed your edit after my post went through. I added a bit of context though. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2008, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-americans-bow-before-monarchs/432067/75 "2008-01-03T22:53:32Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] But you see, I really _don’t_ respect the position. I don’t respect inherited titles. A judge at least has earned his or her title through hard work. [/QUOTE] I agree. A person can disklike Bush (or Clinton or Reagan) but still have respect for the office of the President. But I am with you in that I have no respect at all to the British Royal Family. They contribute nothing to society, are born into wealth and luxury, and demand respect. For what exactly? Being born? ---
**Author:** ![Ponder\_Stibbons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponder_stibbons/32/343_2.png) [@Ponder\_Stibbons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponder_Stibbons)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2008, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-americans-bow-before-monarchs/432067/76 "2008-01-03T23:04:34Z")
[QUOTE=Gorsnak] [QUOTE=Muffin] The Canadian solution is for the male to pirouette behind the Queen. [/QUOTE] I thought that was against protocol except for sitting Prime Ministers. [/QUOTE] Now that’s just downright silly. How is he supposed to pirouette _and_ sit at the same time? ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2008, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-americans-bow-before-monarchs/432067/77 "2008-01-03T23:05:03Z")
[QUOTE=jtgain] I agree. A person can disklike Bush (or Clinton or Reagan) but still have respect for the office of the President. But I am with you in that I have no respect at all to the British Royal Family. They contribute nothing to society, are born into wealth and luxury, and demand respect. For what exactly? Being born? [/QUOTE] Remind me again how shrub is different. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2008, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-americans-bow-before-monarchs/432067/78 "2008-01-03T23:06:04Z")
[QUOTE=Struan] Yeah I noticed your edit after my post went through. I added a bit of context though. [/QUOTE] Thanks. Didn’t mean to sound snarky. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2008, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-americans-bow-before-monarchs/432067/79 "2008-01-03T23:15:54Z")
[QUOTE=MrDibble] If they’re called up in court, maybe to get their AoA, maybe to be appointed Queen’s Guard, whatever, damn straight Americans should bow. It’s not just for Drachenwalders, An Tirians or Lochacers, ya know. [/QUOTE] Malarky. I am going to be getting in a big fight with my wife this summer, as my children (the middle in particuarly) have been to the Prince and Princess of Cynaguas house, refer to them as “their Highnesses”, and I my wife had the rather awkward position of explaining that they, in fact, are normal people that are not special outside of the world of SCA Make Believe. In fact, as there are a number of SCA folks here, I think I’ll start another thread on this… ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2008, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-americans-bow-before-monarchs/432067/80 "2008-01-03T23:37:02Z")
[QUOTE=askeptic] Remind me again how shrub is different. [/QUOTE] He was elected to office? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-americans-bow-before-monarchs/432067.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-americans-bow-before-monarchs/432067.md?page=5)