# Should anti-gay activists be public high school teachers? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-anti-gay-activists-be-public-high-school-teachers/700995 "2014-10-10T20:09:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![FrederickJones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/43a26b/32.png) [@FrederickJones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FrederickJones)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2014, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-anti-gay-activists-be-public-high-school-teachers/700995/61 "2014-11-06T13:09:18Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > In a diverse classroom there’s always bound to be such potential for conflict. > > Can someone who is pro-choice serve as a good teacher to his pro-life students? > > Can someone who is pro-life serve as a good teacher to his pro-choice students? > > Can someone who is pro-atheism serve as a good teacher to his Christian students? > > Can someone who is anti-Republican serve as a good teacher to his Republican students? > > Can someone who is anti-Democrat serve as a good teacher to his Democrat students? > Etc. etc. You have done a very good job of explaining another reason why gay marriage should not be allowed along with the thousands of other reasons. ---
**Author:** ![FrederickJones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/43a26b/32.png) [@FrederickJones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FrederickJones)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2014, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-anti-gay-activists-be-public-high-school-teachers/700995/62 "2014-11-06T13:10:49Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > This is one of the all-time dumbest statements I’ve ever read on these boards. Actually you out did them by saying that. :smack: :smack: :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2014, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-anti-gay-activists-be-public-high-school-teachers/700995/63 "2014-11-06T13:56:03Z")
> [@FrederickJones](#): > > You have done a very good job of explaining another reason why gay marriage should not be allowed along with the thousands of other reasons. 😕 How’s that? Gay marriage shouldn’t be allowed, because teachers and their students can disagree on religious and political matters, and this can lead to conflict? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2014, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-anti-gay-activists-be-public-high-school-teachers/700995/64 "2014-11-06T18:32:25Z")
Apparently. And I think the “thousands of other reasons” he’s talking about refer to the “thousands of other classrooms” in which such disagreements may take place. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2014, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-anti-gay-activists-be-public-high-school-teachers/700995/65 "2014-11-10T21:48:28Z")
I’d compare an anti-gay teacher ragging on a gay student to a militant Christian doing the same thing to a Jewish or Muslim student. It’s just wrong, and the teacher should be fired. ---
**Author:** ![btthegreat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f4b2a3/32.png) [@btthegreat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/btthegreat)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2014, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-anti-gay-activists-be-public-high-school-teachers/700995/66 "2014-11-12T06:07:39Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > And if someone who is against the ritualistic sacrifice of non-cultists can be a public school teacher, so can an advocate for said rites. > > This analogy fails so hard that it hurts. You don’t seem to understand the difference between a bigoted, divisive, exclusive position and an inclusive, unifying, and tolerant position. Case in point: > > Honestly, I don’t care so much about the teacher mentioned in the OP as I do about _you understanding this_. Promoting tolerance of homosexuals and equal rights for homosexuals is not the same thing as acting as though they were damaged or evil or whatever. Tolerance and intolerance are completely different beasts. A teacher who believes homosexuals aren’t evil or damaged may bother his Christian students who believe otherwise, but that’s their problem for being intolerant. A teacher who believes homosexuals are evil may bother his homosexual students, but that’s neither their fault nor can they do anything about it - it’s the teacher’s bigotry on display. > > You know, there’s difference between “exposing someone to controversial ideas and unpopular opinions” and “perpetuating longstanding, systemic bigotry and discrimination”. A classroom is meant to be a learning environment. By exposing students to a teacher who believes that it’s okay to discriminate against homosexuals, you’re not just making it harder for homosexuals to study under that teacher, you’re _teaching other students that that kind of behaviour is okay_ when it simply is not. This is not to diminish the first effect; that’s kind of a big deal as well. We’re dealing with children and teenagers, not adults. These are people who may not be as well-equipped to deal with an environment of bigotry and discrimination. Of all the ways to teach them about what they’ll face, I can hardly think of a worse way than a situation where they cannot do anything about it and at the same time are expected to deal with the myriad of problems that come with being a teenager. I’ll just namedrop Anoka-Hennepin and leave it at that. As long as some of those controversial and unpopular opinions may involve what you or others perceive as ‘perpetuating longstanding systemic bigotry and discrimination’ (a subjective and nebulous standard if ever I read one) , it is immaterial. There is absolutely nothing wrong with exposing students to a teacher who believes anything at any age or in any circumstances, because the belief alone is utterly harmless absent evidence that the belief impacts his treatment of his students. For example if a teacher holds views contrary to same sex marriage equality, or equal opportunity for housing for gays, it has zero impact on his education of gays or straights in a high school, regardless of whether those beliefs are based on intolerance or bigotry or simple ignorance. If he expresses those same views, in a high school setting, in the context of a brief discussion/ debate on same sex marriage or legislation pending in a state legislature, it is likely to have a marginal impact on those same students. it may shock a few who discover their favorite biology teacher is anti-gay, but its not likely to make any 16-18 year olds swoon. Some will be uncomfortable or embarrassed, others mad, and others just won’t be able to wait to gossip about him, but the mere fact that some teachers express such political views antithetical to equality, is a long ways away from’ teaching students that any behavior is okay _except the expression of those political views_. I am not equating the above with polemics of gay-bashing, or harassment or a hostile environment, or discrimination in the treatment of gay students, all of which are beyond a teacher making some asinine statements or proffering a socially conservative opinion on a issue of the day or some stupid reference to a ‘gay lobby’. In a high school, there aren’t any children, and the teenagers don’t need to ‘do anything about’ opinions they don’t like, or opinions that offend them. If my 17 year kid gay or straight, comes home and tells me, his teacher said that gays are trying to ‘steal traditional marriage’ and sell homosexuality as normal. I will ask him how he feels, and what he feels he should do about it. I sure as hell am not about to make a federal case about or encourage him to. Its a fucking opinion by a biology teacher, not a mass brain-washing of our youth, or a license to call gays slurs or beat them after school. ---
**Author:** ![btthegreat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f4b2a3/32.png) [@btthegreat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/btthegreat)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2014, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-anti-gay-activists-be-public-high-school-teachers/700995/67 "2014-11-12T06:28:33Z")
> [@btthegreat](#): > > As long as some of those controversial and unpopular opinions may involve what you or others perceive as ‘perpetuating longstanding systemic bigotry and discrimination’ (a subjective and nebulous standard if ever I read one) , it is immaterial. There is absolutely nothing wrong with exposing students to a teacher who believes anything at any age or in any circumstances, because the belief alone is utterly harmless absent evidence that the belief impacts his treatment of his students. > > For example if a teacher holds views contrary to same sex marriage equality, or equal opportunity for housing for gays, it has zero impact on his education of gays or straights in a high school, regardless of whether those beliefs are based on intolerance or bigotry or simple ignorance. > > If he expresses those same views, in a high school setting, in the context of a brief discussion/ debate on same sex marriage or legislation pending in a state legislature, it is likely to have a marginal impact on those same students. it may shock a few who discover their favorite biology teacher is anti-gay, but its not likely to make any 16-18 year olds swoon. Some will be uncomfortable or embarrassed, others mad, and others just won’t be able to wait to gossip about him, but the mere fact that some teachers express such political views antithetical to equality, is a long ways away from’ teaching students that any behavior is okay _except the expression of those political views_. > > I am not equating the above with polemics of gay-bashing, or harassment or a hostile environment, or discrimination in the treatment of gay students, all of which are beyond a teacher making some asinine statements or proffering a socially conservative opinion on a issue of the day or some stupid reference to a ‘gay lobby’. In a high school, there aren’t any children, and the teenagers don’t need to ‘do anything about’ opinions they don’t like, or opinions that offend them. > > If my 17 year kid gay or straight, comes home and tells me, his teacher said that gays are trying to ‘steal traditional marriage’ and sell homosexuality as normal. I will ask him how he feels, and what he feels he should do about it. I sure as hell am not about to make a federal case about or encourage him to. Its a fucking opinion by a biology teacher, not a mass brain-washing of our youth, or a license to call gays slurs or beat them after school. Just finishing my thought. [hate that rule!]. Again, I don’t think we should censor teens from this simple truth. People who have authority in their lives, or influence on their lives, will inevitably have divergent opinions on all sorts of matters and there is absolutely nothing inappropriate about simple expressions of those opinions. We are not entitled to a life without offense embarrassment, irritation or momentary discomfort. if our teens can’t handle this small amount of diveristy of thought, there is something very wrong with how we are preparing them for life in a democracy. Harangues by teachers that disparage, marginalize or belittle any group, be it Christians, gays or red haired freckle faced boys are very different. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2014, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-anti-gay-activists-be-public-high-school-teachers/700995/68 "2014-11-12T07:07:48Z")
Replace anti-gay with racist in your argument above. Does it still make sense? I personally don’t think so, although I could understand someone disagreeing with that. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2014, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-anti-gay-activists-be-public-high-school-teachers/700995/69 "2014-11-12T07:20:28Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So if a pro-black-civil-rights activist can be a teacher, than a white-supremacist activist could be one? That’s a false parallel. The correct one would be if a black separatist/Farrakhanist can be a teacher then a white supremacist can be one? Both of those would be preaching hatred of the opposing side. Neither should be teachers. ---
**Author:** ![btthegreat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f4b2a3/32.png) [@btthegreat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/btthegreat)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2014, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-anti-gay-activists-be-public-high-school-teachers/700995/70 "2014-11-12T07:22:39Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Replace anti-gay with racist in your argument above. Does it still make sense? I personally don’t think so, although I could understand someone disagreeing with that. Let’s do that. Is there a difference between making hateful statements about blacks, and opposing affirmative action, interracial marriage or the voting rights acts? I think there is, and I think that we ought not treat 16 and 17 year olds of either race, as porcelain dolls too fragile to hear some shockingly archaic opinions. We would all insist the college professors not be censored like this, because we see some benefits to a free academic environment and what it provides to students thus far sheltered from opinions much outside their cultural, religious and geographic experience. The problem is that most of our kids do not ever get to a college campus. is it so absurd to suggest we ready High schoolers juniors and Seniors at least a little more, a little earlier than college, considering we can’t later? Every comment by a teacher or professor contrary to a minority, does not a hostile educational environment make. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2014, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-anti-gay-activists-be-public-high-school-teachers/700995/71 "2014-11-12T18:03:06Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > That’s a false parallel. The correct one would be if a black separatist/Farrakhanist can be a teacher then a white supremacist can be one? Both of those would be preaching hatred of the opposing side. Neither should be teachers. But the original comparison was to a teacher supporting gay rights (which is not a hateful position) to a teacher opposing gay rights (which is a hateful position). **iiandyiiii** ’s comparison is spot on: these aren’t two equivalent and opposite positions. One is seeking equality and protection for a minority, the other is attacking a minority out of prejudice. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2014, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-anti-gay-activists-be-public-high-school-teachers/700995/72 "2014-11-12T18:22:59Z")
> [@btthegreat](#): > > The problem is that most of our kids do not ever get to a college campus. is it so absurd to suggest we ready High schoolers juniors and Seniors at least a little more, a little earlier than college, considering we can’t later? Every comment by a teacher or professor contrary to a minority, does not a hostile educational environment make. I think a teacher saying, say, “black people are inherently less intelligent and more aggressive than white people”, or “Jews can’t be trusted, are greedy, and secretly control the financial system”, most definitely would make an educational environment hostile. A black student (or a Jewish student) would have legitimate reason to fear that he/she is not being graded fairly by a teacher who makes such a statement. The same goes for “gay people are going against God and will burn in hell”, or “gay people spread disease and should be shunned”, and the like, from the perspective of a gay student. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-anti-gay-activists-be-public-high-school-teachers/700995.md?page=3)