# Should Antifa violence be condemned? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 20, 2018, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-antifa-violence-be-condemned/819902 "2018-08-20T05:14:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-antifa-violence-be-condemned/819902/181 "2018-08-22T12:23:27Z")
Something else that should be condemned rather than minimized or waved away - > [@](#): > > A registered Democrat and Bernie Sanders supporter protesting a right-wing rally in Oregon earlier this month says he was viciously beaten by militant members of his own movement because he possessed a “fascist symbol” – an American flag. [Cite](http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/08/21/bernie-sanders-supporter-protesting-right-wing-rally-with-american-flag-beaten-up-by-antifa-video-shows.html). Extremists eat their young. If a Bernie Sanders supporter isn’t extreme enough for these scum, they will wind up like the Black Panthers did back in the 60s. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-antifa-violence-be-condemned/819902/182 "2018-08-22T13:53:17Z")
Got a \*credible \*cite for us? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-antifa-violence-be-condemned/819902/183 "2018-08-22T14:03:16Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > As for me, I couldn’t care less if some Proud Boy or Nazi shithead gets the punch that’s coming to him. America’s a violent place; I hear some people even carry guns wherever they go, just in case. I wholeheartedly support this position. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-antifa-violence-be-condemned/819902/184 "2018-08-22T15:35:36Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > Again, I’m on the anarcho-communist/anarcho-syndicalist spectrum. I don’t think there should **be** a state, people should be organized into local communes run on something akin to consensus democracy (which is different from majoritarian democracy). That’s still a state. If it can enforce policy, it’s a state. You can hand-wave whatever you want, but I’m not going to redefine “state” to fit a political whim. And none of this justifies arbitrary, mob violence anyway. You say you’re not majoritarian, but mob violence is the most majoritarian thing there is. > [@Jragon](#): > > Okay, I got it to load, yes, I was wrong. They shouldn’t have done that in this case. I can understand them not wanting to be filmed but they shouldn’t assault reporters. If they don’t want to be filmed, that is, in itself, damning. A mob which refuses to be surveilled is a mob with even fewer checks on its extremism. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-antifa-violence-be-condemned/819902/185 "2018-08-22T15:49:47Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > people should be organized into local communes run on something akin to consensus democracy Until somebody decides to be the local bully instead. Then what? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-antifa-violence-be-condemned/819902/186 "2018-08-22T16:20:01Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Got a \*credible \*cite for us? [there is one](https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2018/08/he_brought_an_american_flag_to.html) it contains a most disturbing sentence, _Anger following the demonstration has largely been directed at Portland police, whose use of “less-lethal” riot-control weapons on counter-protesters hospitalized at least three people and injured several others._ ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-antifa-violence-be-condemned/819902/187 "2018-08-22T16:25:33Z")
So who were these masked attackers? Actual anti-fascists, or party-crashers? There seems little point in waiting for a police investigation to find them. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-antifa-violence-be-condemned/819902/188 "2018-08-22T16:32:53Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Got a \*credible \*cite for us? I was hoping it wouldn’t be waved away, but I guess that is too much to expect. > [@manson1972](#): > > > [@The Tooth](#): > > > > As for me, I couldn’t care less if some Proud Boy or Nazi shithead gets the punch that’s coming to him. America’s a violent place; I hear some people even carry guns wherever they go, just in case. > > I wholeheartedly support this position. The problem with this is not merely that it is morally repugnant - it’s that, if the fringe Left tries violence, they are going to lose. The Right will oppose them, reasonable people on the Left will oppose them, and the vast middle will want there not to be violence in the streets. Triggering a crackdown on violence in the streets is not likely to turn out well for the triggerers. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-antifa-violence-be-condemned/819902/189 "2018-08-22T16:39:07Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I was hoping it wouldn’t be waved away, but I guess that is too much to expect. When your only cite is Fox, yes, it’s too much to expect it to be accepted. > [@](#): > > if the fringe Left tries violence, they are going to lose. How do you know who they are and what views they represent? You’re identifying people acting fascistically as being part of an _anti_-fascist alignment - does that small inconsistency bother you at all? > [@](#): > > Triggering a crackdown on violence in the streets is not likely to turn out well for the triggerers. If the people fomenting violence are wearing blue uniforms, or are protected by those who do, yes, obviously. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-antifa-violence-be-condemned/819902/190 "2018-08-22T16:48:37Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I was hoping it wouldn’t be waved away, but I guess that is too much to expect. Because the American Flag is. Glorious Sacred Symbol of everything that is Good and Right and Proper, and it and anyone bearing it should always be treated with deference and respect. > [@](#): > > The problem with this is not merely that it is morally repugnant - it’s that, if the fringe Left tries violence, they are going to lose. The Right will oppose them, reasonable people on the Left will oppose them, and the vast middle will want there not to be violence in the streets. But the fringe right, they are ok and we should leave them be. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-antifa-violence-be-condemned/819902/191 "2018-08-22T16:54:28Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > When your only cite is Fox, yes, it’s too much to expect it to be accepted. … I think this attitude is the equivalent of an ostrich sticking its head in the sand, or perhaps a toddler covering his ears and saying “nah nah nah, I’m not listening to you”, but FWIW [I did provide a cite from the Oregonian here](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=21158865#post21158865). ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-antifa-violence-be-condemned/819902/192 "2018-08-22T16:57:41Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > The problem with this is not merely that it is morally repugnant - it’s that, if the fringe Left tries violence, they are going to lose. The Right will oppose them, reasonable people on the Left will oppose them, and the vast middle will want there not to be violence in the streets. > > Triggering a crackdown on violence in the streets is not likely to turn out well for the triggerers. > > Regards, > Shodan Sorry, I don’t consider punching white supremacists or Nazis to be morally repugnant, so that argument won’t work on me. I also don’t find it morally repugnant that Buzz Aldrin [punched this guy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OROlF8zB9z0) in the face either. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-antifa-violence-be-condemned/819902/193 "2018-08-22T17:09:45Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Sorry, I don’t consider punching white supremacists or Nazis to be morally repugnant, so that argument won’t work on me. > > I also don’t find it morally repugnant that Buzz Aldrin [punched this guy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OROlF8zB9z0) in the face either. What about cracking a Bernie Sanders supporter over the head for carrying a red, white, and blue “fascist symbol”? Is that morally repugnant to you? And whether or not you personally find it repugnant, how do you think mainstream America views it? ETA: do you think the viewpoint of mainstream America is something Antifa ought to take into consideration? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-antifa-violence-be-condemned/819902/194 "2018-08-22T17:17:05Z")
This “mainstream America” of which you speak? That would be _you_? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-antifa-violence-be-condemned/819902/195 "2018-08-22T17:21:11Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > What about cracking a Bernie Sanders supporter over the head for carrying a red, white, and blue “fascist symbol”? Is that morally repugnant to you? And whether or not you personally find it repugnant, how do you think mainstream America views it? ETA: do you think the viewpoint of mainstream America is something Antifa ought to take into consideration? Sorry, I limit my lack of morale repugnance to white supremacists and Nazis getting punched. And that moon hoax guy. Punching someone for carrying a US Flag is moronic, and should be prosecuted to fullest extent of the law. I would hope that the viewpoint of mainstream America would be “White Supremacists and Nazis deserved to be punched every single time they appear in a place where punching can be done” ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-antifa-violence-be-condemned/819902/196 "2018-08-22T17:21:38Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > This “mainstream America” of which you speak? That would be _you_? What % of your countrymen do you think would be appalled upon learning that Antifa beat a (non-Nazi) guy over the head for carrying the American flag, something the Antifa thugs called a “fascist symbol”? Personally, I suspect that percentage is quite high, and it’s that high percentage of our countrymen that I referred to as “mainstream America”, but I’m on the edge of my seat waiting for your answer: What % of your countrymen do you think are appalled by [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwE620VkaD0)? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-antifa-violence-be-condemned/819902/197 "2018-08-22T17:23:56Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > … I would hope that the viewpoint of mainstream America would be “White Supremacists and Nazis deserved to be punched every single time they appear in a place where punching can be done” I’ve got some bad news for you. The ACLU and a _lot_ of Americans disagree. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-antifa-violence-be-condemned/819902/198 "2018-08-22T17:24:25Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > … how do you think mainstream America views it? Thing is, mainstream America mostly does not view it. I personally have not been attacked, or even threatened, by Antifa nor by nazis. I have never been in the vicinity of one of these events, and I am not acquainted with anyone who has. They make amusing news stories, but, other than that one lass who was killed by the crazy guy in the car, it is basically just some scuffling. Pretty easy for 99% of people to not get tangled up in and 80~90% of people to not know/care about. Which is to say that there are no innocent victims. The people who get hurt are the ones who show up at these events on purpose. No one expects to get hurt, but then, no one expects that car to cross the centerline on a remote highway killing you and your six passengers. Yes, there are obnoxious or dangerous people who are ideologically similar to me. Does that mean I should reject that ideology, because of some bad seeds? If that is the case, where do you suggest I go where there are no bad seeds? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-antifa-violence-be-condemned/819902/199 "2018-08-22T17:25:43Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’ve got some bad news for you. The ACLU and a _lot_ of Americans disagree. Well, there is always hope! Besides, [Captain America](https://www.pinterest.com/pin/7881368081826604/) agrees with me. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-antifa-violence-be-condemned/819902/200 "2018-08-22T17:31:43Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Well, there is always hope! > > Besides, [Captain America](https://www.pinterest.com/pin/7881368081826604/) agrees with me. 🙂 > **[Captain America Is No Longer a Supervillain, He's a Monster](https://gizmodo.com/captain-america-is-no-longer-a-supervillain-hes-a-mons-1794887713)** > > The road Marvel Comics has taken to Secret Empire has seen Steve Rogers turn from sleeper agent to full-on supervillain. But Secret Empire #1, out today, goes well beyond that: it makes Captain America complicit in horrors so extreme it’s hard to see... That’s because he’s working for Hydra. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-antifa-violence-be-condemned/819902.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-antifa-violence-be-condemned/819902.md?page=11)