# Should Antifa violence be condemned? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 20, 2018, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-antifa-violence-be-condemned/819902 "2018-08-20T05:14:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-antifa-violence-be-condemned/819902/301 "2018-08-30T18:40:17Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > … Antifa, to the extent they have any organization at all, are anti-violence. … Do you have a cite to support this claim? Or are you just practicing writing fiction? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-antifa-violence-be-condemned/819902/302 "2018-08-30T18:47:01Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > The antifa goon that was cracking people over the head with a bike lock in California. Indeed Antifa is a blight upon this land, racking up misdemeanors like they were petty crimes, or something. Next thing you know, they’ll start breaking windows and denting cars! Isn’t the President going to do something about this? Oooh, I read further, he’s done this before. 4 years ago he was arrested for being a public nuisance! He was Willful and Malicious! Antifa is hard-core. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-antifa-violence-be-condemned/819902/303 "2018-08-30T18:48:26Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Antifa, to the extent they have any organization at all, are anti-violence. It \*should \*not be that hard to imagine why somebody with a pro-violence orientation would want to discredit them. _Is_ it that hard? Cite? wiki: _The idea of direct action is central to the antifa movement. Antifa organizer Scott Crow told an interviewer: “The idea in Antifa is that we go where they [right-wingers] go. That hate speech is not free speech. That if you are endangering people with what you say and the actions that are behind them, then you do not have the right to do that. And so we go to cause conflict, to shut them down where they are, because we don’t believe that Nazis or fascists of any stripe should have a mouthpiece”.[7] A manual posted on It’s Going Down, an anarchist website, warns against accepting “people who just want to fight”. It furthermore notes that “physically confronting and defending against fascists is a necessary part of anti-fascist work, but is not the only or even necessarily the most important part”.[40]…According to a Washington Post book review, antifa tactics include “no platforming”, i.e. denying their targets platforms from which to speak; obstructing their events and defacing their propaganda; and when antifa activists deem it necessary, deploying violence to deter them.[39] According to National Public Radio, “people who speak for the Antifa movement acknowledge they sometimes carry clubs and sticks” and their “approach is confrontational”.[42] CNN describes antifa as “known for causing damage to property during protests”.[7] Scott Crow, described by CNN as “a longtime Antifa organizer”, argues that destroying property is not a form of violence._ ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-antifa-violence-be-condemned/819902/304 "2018-08-30T19:09:58Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Indeed Antifa is a blight upon this land, racking up misdemeanors like they were petty crimes, or something. Next thing you know, they’ll start breaking windows and denting cars! Isn’t the President going to do something about this? > > Oooh, I read further, he’s done this before. 4 years ago he was arrested for being a public nuisance! He was Willful and Malicious! Antifa is hard-core. It’s not surprising to me that Bay-area leftists would give a violent leftist a sweetheart plea deal, or that you’d wink at his assaults. Disappointing, but not surprising. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-antifa-violence-be-condemned/819902/305 "2018-08-30T19:26:04Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > It’s not surprising to me that Bay-area leftists would give a violent leftist a sweetheart plea deal, or that you’d wink at his assaults. Disappointing, but not surprising. Man, I’m not winking, I’m yawning. I’m supposed to be condemning a ‘violent leftist group’ and all you’re giving me is one dude who clocked another dude a year and a half ago. Put some meat on this nothing-burger. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-antifa-violence-be-condemned/819902/306 "2018-08-30T19:28:12Z")
When anitfas came for my wing-nut neighbor, I said nothing. However, if it does actually _happen_, I probably will. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-antifa-violence-be-condemned/819902/307 "2018-08-30T19:29:07Z")
Antifa went after Ben Shapiro, an Orthodox Jew who is about as far from (and a target of) the alt right as possible. They didn’t like what he says, so the classify him as a fascist, and attempt to confront him, shut him down, and claim that his speech is actually hate speech. Again, this is the problem. It is one thing to say that a racist fascist doesn’t have the rights to free speech. Nobody should have to listen to that bullshit. Most people agree. Fighting Nacis after all usually seems like a pretty safe thing to do. The problem is, that you accept this, it is a very short step to realizing that you can just shut down anything you disagree with once you label it fascist. And, Antifa has done this. It’s also a short step to say that fascists are on the right, and therefore anyone on the right stands with fascists, and therefore they should be shut down. Again, this kind of thinking and action was methodology of the Marxist revolutions in Russia and China. Lots of people died because of those. I think Antifa has a lot in common with fascism. It’s not it’s opposite. They are to sides of the same coin, socialism or Marxism. Socialism and Marxism put the group identit over the individual. With fascism and Naxis it was the identity of a master race superior to the other races, and to a Nationalixm based on that. In Marxism the identity that is more important the individual was being a member of the proletariat versus the aristocracy and intellectual elites. Identity politics is just Marxism in a new wrapper. They are every bit as bad as the fascists they claim to fight. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-antifa-violence-be-condemned/819902/308 "2018-08-30T19:31:08Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Man, I’m not winking, I’m yawning. > > I’m supposed to be condemning a ‘violent leftist group’ and all you’re giving me is one dude who clocked another dude a year and a half ago. Put some meat on this nothing-burger. Burned a car, threw molotov cocktails, smashed store windows, assaulted a fellow protestor waving a American flag, attacked media & police. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-antifa-violence-be-condemned/819902/309 "2018-08-30T19:40:18Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Burned a car, threw molotov cocktails, smashed store windows, assaulted a fellow protestor waving a American flag, attacked media & police. If your idea of a violence-prone dangerous group does less damage than Eagles fans after a Super Bowl win, I would yawn as well. “burned a car” LOL ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-antifa-violence-be-condemned/819902/310 "2018-08-30T19:42:03Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Man, I’m not winking, I’m yawning. > > I’m supposed to be condemning a ‘violent leftist group’ and all you’re giving me is one dude who clocked another dude a year and a half ago. Put some meat on this nothing-burger. Exactly. “Random American dude gets violent — details at eleven”? 😕 Every single person on this message board knows that if you survey 100 such random white dudes who got violent, at least 80 voted for Trump but we’re supposed to be _ **outraged** _ and repentant if it can be shown that one was a probable Hillary voter. (Timothy McVeigh et al are just “good ol’ boys having some rowdy fun.”) Meanwhile Trump almost explicitly calls for violence. Are the frantic right-wing shriekers even self-aware? Are they unwitting tools of Putin? All we can decipher from peculiar threads like this one is that _ **Facts and Reality Don’t Even Matter Anymore.** _ ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-antifa-violence-be-condemned/819902/311 "2018-08-30T19:44:17Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > If your idea of a violence-prone dangerous group does less damage than Eagles fans after a Super Bowl win, I would yawn as well. > > “burned a car” > > LOL A guy was send to the hospital, five counts of ADW, and if it was your car they destroyed, you’d think differently. And of course that was tens of thousands of fans, out for a good time, not just 20 guys out to do violence. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-antifa-violence-be-condemned/819902/312 "2018-08-30T19:45:58Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > A guy was send to the hospital, five counts of ADW, and if it was your car they destroyed, you’d think differently. > > And of course that was tens of thousands of fans, out for a good time, not just 20 guys out to do violence. 20 whole guys? Man, you didn’t mention those staggering numbers. I better double lock my doors tonight. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-antifa-violence-be-condemned/819902/313 "2018-08-30T20:01:02Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > 20 whole guys? Man, you didn’t mention those staggering numbers. I better double lock my doors tonight. No one here is saying they are a big danger. In fact if you stay away from protests, the worst that could happen to a person is bad traffic or transit being shut down. You’re not in any danger from American Nazis either, I would guess. What is being debated here is **"should antifa violence be condemned**". Not "should I lock my doors at nite.:rolleyes::rolleyes: If you don’t want to debate that, why are you posting here? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-antifa-violence-be-condemned/819902/314 "2018-08-30T20:07:08Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > No one here is saying they are a big danger. In fact if you stay away from protests, the worst that could happen to a person is bad traffic or transit being shut down. You’re not in any danger from American Nazis either, I would guess. > > What is being debated here is **"should antifa violence be condemned**". Not "should I lock my doors at nite.:rolleyes::rolleyes: If you don’t want to debate that, why are you posting here? Ok fine. Yes, antifa violence should be condemned. But the violence that they have perpetrated upon people is less than the violence of Eagles fans after the super bowl win. Until antifa violence surpasses the violence caused by sports fans, I won’t waste my time publicly condemning them, because there are much bigger things to be worried about than a group of 20 guys burning a car. Unless the car belong to a nazi or white supremacist. Then, they can burn that thing and I will applaud them. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-antifa-violence-be-condemned/819902/315 "2018-08-30T20:15:48Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Exactly. “Random American dude gets violent — details at eleven”? 😕 > > Every single person on this message board knows that if you survey 100 such random white dudes who got violent, at least 80 voted for Trump but we’re supposed to be _ **outraged** _ and repentant if it can be shown that one was a probable Hillary voter. (Timothy McVeigh et al are just “good ol’ boys having some rowdy fun.”) > > Meanwhile Trump almost explicitly calls for violence. > > Are the frantic right-wing shriekers even self-aware? Are they unwitting tools of Putin? All we can decipher from peculiar threads like this one is that _ **Facts and Reality Don’t Even Matter Anymore.** _ what-aboutism? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-antifa-violence-be-condemned/819902/316 "2018-08-30T20:16:48Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Every single person on this message board knows that if you survey 100 such random white dudes who got violent, at least 80 voted for Trump but we’re supposed to be _ **outraged** _ and repentant if it can be shown that one was a probable Hillary voter. whataboutism? Look, dude, the Op is “Should Antifa violence be condemned?”. Not- "how can I divert and hijack the debate to right wing violence. " And by and large Antifa are anarchists, not Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-antifa-violence-be-condemned/819902/317 "2018-08-30T20:42:13Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > The Nazis are pro-violence (yes, the present tense is required). An anti-violence person would have no reason to associate with them, not even by mingling with them at a riot. > > Antifa, to the extent they have any organization at all, are anti-violence. It \*should \*not be that hard to imagine why somebody with a pro-violence orientation would want to discredit them. _Is_ it that hard? Yeah, that’s just not true. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-antifa-violence-be-condemned/819902/318 "2018-08-30T20:45:40Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Man, I’m not winking, I’m yawning. > > I’m supposed to be condemning a ‘violent leftist group’ and all you’re giving me is one dude who clocked another dude a year and a half ago. Put some meat on this nothing-burger. Are you actually serious? All the vandalism, arson, and assaults that radical leftists have committed in the last few years have somehow escaped your notice? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-antifa-violence-be-condemned/819902/319 "2018-08-30T20:48:52Z")
Yeah, **'steak** , it’s almost like you haven’t been consuming alarmist fearmongering right-wing news media at _all_. Sheesh dude, get woke. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-antifa-violence-be-condemned/819902/320 "2018-08-30T20:52:33Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > If your idea of a violence-prone dangerous group does less damage than Eagles fans after a Super Bowl win, I would yawn as well. > > “burned a car” > > LOL Yeah, why worry about violence designed to intimidate a whole spectrum of political though when we have people using the wrong pronoun, cooking a taco while the wrong color, or telling an un-PC joke? :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-antifa-violence-be-condemned/819902.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-antifa-violence-be-condemned/819902.md?page=17)