# Should Apple help the government hack into encrypted devices? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 17, 2016, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-apple-help-the-government-hack-into-encrypted-devices/746333 "2016-02-17T13:20:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-apple-help-the-government-hack-into-encrypted-devices/746333/201 "2016-02-18T02:02:01Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Your cite doesn’t say what you think it says. [I got more.](http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/19/us-tech-giants-knew-nsa-data-collection-rajesh-de) > [@](#): > > Asked during a Wednesday hearing of the US government’s institutional privacy watchdog if collection under the law, known as Section 702 or the Fisa Amendments Act, occurred with the “full knowledge and assistance of any company from which information is obtained,” De replied: “Yes.” > > When the Guardian and the Washington Post broke the Prism story in June, thanks to documents leaked by whistleblower Edward Snowden, nearly all the companies listed as participating in the program – Yahoo, Apple, Google, Microsoft, Facebook and AOL – claimed they did not know about a surveillance practice described as giving NSA vast access to their customers’ data. Some, like Apple, said they had “never heard” the term Prism. ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-apple-help-the-government-hack-into-encrypted-devices/746333/202 "2016-02-18T02:05:29Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The ability of the FBI to access Syed Farook’s phone does not jeopardize any of your secrets unless the FBI is who you’re trying to keep secrets from. Hahahaha, “Catch 22” ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-apple-help-the-government-hack-into-encrypted-devices/746333/203 "2016-02-18T02:31:40Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > [I got more.](http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/19/us-tech-giants-knew-nsa-data-collection-rajesh-de) So you are now abandoning your first cite and bringing us a new one? Will you acknowledge that your first cite says the exact opposite of what you claimed it said? And that cite has one guy saying the companies did know, while the companies say they did not. Hardly conclusive evidence, IMO. Has it sunk in yet that your queries regarding Apple knowing which tower to route calls to are ridiculous because Apple is not a telephone service provider? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-apple-help-the-government-hack-into-encrypted-devices/746333/204 "2016-02-18T02:47:07Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Ok, I’ll go along with that. > > Same answer, though: the government can’t use a subpoena duces tecum to make a safe maker disable a bomb inside the safe. Once again rescued by a legal technicality 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-apple-help-the-government-hack-into-encrypted-devices/746333/205 "2016-02-18T03:05:24Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Has it sunk in yet that your queries regarding Apple knowing which tower to route calls to are ridiculous because Apple is not a telephone service provider? And I assume you believe that the Apple software on your Apple phone has absolutely nothing to do with telephone service. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-apple-help-the-government-hack-into-encrypted-devices/746333/206 "2016-02-18T03:17:43Z")
**Smapti** : Because I feel it’s a fruitful topic for another thread devoted specifically to it, I’d like to ask you this question: Is the following statement a fair summation of your beliefs as described in this thread: “There is no reason for the average law abiding citizen to be concerned if the federal government has free access to any and all personal information, either his/her own or anybody else’s”? ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-apple-help-the-government-hack-into-encrypted-devices/746333/207 "2016-02-18T03:34:14Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > [I got more.](http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/19/us-tech-giants-knew-nsa-data-collection-rajesh-de) James Clapper has a special dustbin with his ugly old mug on it for this “cite.” Your argument is trash, Smapti. You are wrong on the specifics of the government’s request by implying that _creating_ a new backdoor but only using it on this one phone will prevent the new backdoor from ever being used on a future phone. Which, of course, will end the moment the government subpoenas for access to another phone. Which you may be foolish enough to believe won’t happen but we all know it will, and soon at that. The point here is not that the government wants access to the key, they want Apple to MAKE THE LOCK, MAKE THE KEY, AND GIVE THEM THE KEY. This strikes at the very core of why your perspective is so frequently at odds with more reasonable folks on this board. You think there’s nothing wrong or worrisome with this request and actually believe the government will use this technology responsibly. I bet you fell hook, line, and sinker when James Clapper lied to us all about mass surveillance. He should be in jail and your type should open your eyes. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-apple-help-the-government-hack-into-encrypted-devices/746333/208 "2016-02-18T03:41:55Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > I think it’s more along the lines of evidence protection and chain of custody. If the FBI does the breaking, what they get has an unquestioned chain of custody. If Apple does the breaking, they don’t. A very good point. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-apple-help-the-government-hack-into-encrypted-devices/746333/209 "2016-02-18T04:07:36Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Let’s be clear here: you’re suggesting that Tim Cook publicly lied about the amount of information Apple keeps and has access to, risking the well-being of the second wealthiest company on the planet and his own personal reputation, not to mention that he is lying to the federal government? That’s what you’re suggesting? :dubious: > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Do you have evidence to the contrary? I have a history on this board of changing my stance when presented with evidence, so feel free to show me your evidence that what Tim Cook said is untrue. Yes, there is plenty of evidence Apple and plenty of other company have your personal data. See [here](http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/what-apple-does-and-doesnt-know-about-you). > [@](#): > > So what information does it have? Apple’s privacy policy breaks it down into two categories. Obviously, the company knows your name, address, email, and credit card information, and so forth. It uses that personal information “for internal purposes such as auditing, data analysis, and research to improve Apple’s products, services, and customer communications” and “to help us develop, deliver, and improve our products, services, content, and advertising.” > > Things get more interesting with the second category: “non-personal” information, which is any user data that isn’t associated with a specific individual. We’re talking about details like customers’ jobs, real-time location, habits, and the like. That data, the company says, is collected anonymously. Apple has free reign to share, sell, or store it however it damn pleases. > > Apple also, like all internet companies, relies on cookies to track user activity. It knows your shopping habits in the Apple Store and where you go when surfing the web in the Safari browser, and uses that insight for advertising and marketing. > > To sum it up, Apple gathers up about as much personal information on users as any other big tech company. The main difference is, it says it doesn’t connect the dots. It may know everything about you, but it doesn’t know you’re you. > > It might, however, know where you are. The most controversial part of Apple’s data collection practices is real-time location tracking. There was a big to-do made about iPhone location tracking a couple years ago, when it was revealed that Apple collects and stores as much as 12 years worth of user geodata on its devices, unencrypted. That can, and was, hacked into and accessed and used to create this very creepy map of exactly where your iPhone is in real-time. also [here](http://www.businessinsider.com/r-apple-iphones-allow-extraction-of-deep-personal-data-researcher-finds-2014-25): > [@](#): > > Personal data including text messages, contact lists and photos can be extracted from iPhones through previously unpublicized techniques by Apple Inc employees, the company acknowledged this week. > > The same techniques to circumvent backup encryption could be used by law enforcement or others with access to the “trusted” computers to which the devices have been connected, according to the security expert who prompted Apple’s admission. > > In a conference presentation this week, researcher Jonathan Zdziarski showed how the services take a surprising amount of data for what Apple now says are diagnostic services meant to help engineers. > > Users are not notified that the services are running and cannot disable them, Zdziarski said. There is no way for iPhone users to know what computers have previously been granted trusted status via the backup process or block future connections. > > “There’s no way to `unpair’ except to wipe your phone,” he said in a video demonstration he posted Friday showing what he could extract from an unlocked phone through a trusted computer. > > As word spread about Zdziarski’s initial presentation at the Hackers on Planet Earth conference, some cited it as evidence of Apple collaboration with the National Security Agency. > > Apple denied creating any “back doors” for intelligence agencies. > > “We have designed iOS so that its diagnostic functions do not compromise user privacy and security, but still provides needed information to enterprise IT departments, developers and Apple for troubleshooting technical issues,” Apple said. “A user must have unlocked their device and agreed to trust another computer before that computer is able to access this limited diagnostic data.” and [here](http://www.wired.com/2015/06/apples-latest-selling-point-little-knows/). > [@](#): > > Despite that new privacy marketing push, Apple’s track record is hardly spotless. Last year the company took flak from privacy advocates when it was revealed that its Spotlight search tool shares user queries and even location data to Apple’s servers, albeit tied to a temporary user ID. And a much larger privacy scandal rocked the company in September of last year when hackers revealed collections of nude celebrity photos they’d pulled from iCloud backups—in many cases, users didn’t even know their photos had been uploaded to the cloud by default. Apple responded by strengthening two-factor authentication for iOS backups. I am not saying this to say Apple is evil or is committing acts more egregious than any number of other companies, but the idea they are no interested in your personal data is complete bullshit. The only way that could possibly be accurate is if you narrowly tailor the definition of personal so that it doesn’t include a multitude of things. I don’t care if the stuff the track is “anonymous”. The reality is that that is not really anonymous to someone who wants to fit the pieces together. It’s also ridiculously naive to assume a company that has lied and obfuscated about issues like this numerous times in the past should be trusted just because the CEO says so. Neither the government nor Apple should be trusted on privacy issues just because they says so. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-apple-help-the-government-hack-into-encrypted-devices/746333/210 "2016-02-18T04:14:00Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Is the following statement a fair summation of your beliefs as described in this thread: “There is no reason for the average law abiding citizen to be concerned if the federal government has free access to any and all personal information, either his/her own or anybody else’s”? Yes. > [@Stringbean](#): > > Your argument is trash, Smapti. You are wrong on the specifics of the government’s request by implying that _creating_ a new backdoor but only using it on this one phone will prevent the new backdoor from ever being used on a future phone. Apple is _not_ being asked to “create a new backdoor”. There’s no backdoor. Everything the court has ordered Apple to do can be done via the means Apple already possesses and uses to load software onto a phone. > [@](#): > > Which, of course, will end the moment the government subpoenas for access to another phone. Which you may be foolish enough to believe won’t happen but we all know it will, and soon at that. As it should, as often as is necessary to protect my life and yours. > [@](#): > > The point here is not that the government wants access to the key, they want Apple to MAKE THE LOCK, MAKE THE KEY, AND GIVE THEM THE KEY. Apple has already made the lock and the key. The government is asking them to use it and Apple is siding with the terrorists. > [@](#): > > You think there’s nothing wrong or worrisome with this request and actually believe the government will use this technology responsibly. Correct. > [@](#): > > I bet you fell hook, line, and sinker when James Clapper lied to us all about mass surveillance. He should be in jail and your type should open your eyes. He should be in jail for what? Doing the job he was appointed to do and had a legal obligation to do? ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-apple-help-the-government-hack-into-encrypted-devices/746333/211 "2016-02-18T04:49:39Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But your belief is wrong: they can demand all the plans in the lockmaker’s cabinet but cannot compel him to make a key – at least, not in the context of a subpoena. That may be the legal technicality, but the practical matter is that to Apple, it’s MUCH more palatable to compile a software build that lets them access this one phone, even if that means someone has to create some code, than to hand over the family jewels that is their source code to iOS. Tim Cook is complaining about the self-destruct defeat request, but he’d absolutely come unglued at the thought of handing over source code. > [@Stringbean](#): > > The point here is not that the government wants access to the key, they want Apple to MAKE THE LOCK, MAKE THE KEY, AND GIVE THEM THE KEY. Again, that’s not the proper analogy. The encryption used is unbreakable with a strong password, and everyone acknowledges that Apple doesn’t have, can’t have, the key. The government just wants the ability to try to guess the password. > [@Smapti](#): > > The ability of the FBI to access Syed Farook’s phone does not jeopardize any of your secrets unless the FBI is who you’re trying to keep secrets from. I don’t want the FBI to have my secrets. However, I accept that with a court order from a valid court (not a FISA court), the FBI should be able to force people to hand over what they have for law enforcement purposes. I don’t want the FBI to know what web sites I visited yesterday, but I grant that with a court order they can force my ISP to hand over that info. The info already exists, and with some oversight from a judge, it should be made available for law enforcement. On the other hand, the FBI should not be able to force companies to build a back door. That’s a different thing altogether. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-apple-help-the-government-hack-into-encrypted-devices/746333/212 "2016-02-18T05:09:57Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > James Clapper has a special dustbin with his ugly old mug on it for this “cite.” > > Your argument is trash, Smapti. You are wrong on the specifics of the government’s request by implying that _creating_ a new backdoor but only using it on this one phone will prevent the new backdoor from ever being used on a future phone. > > Which, of course, will end the moment the government subpoenas for access to another phone. Which you may be foolish enough to believe won’t happen but we all know it will, and soon at that. > > The point here is not that the government wants access to the key, they want Apple to MAKE THE LOCK, MAKE THE KEY, AND GIVE THEM THE KEY. > > This strikes at the very core of why your perspective is so frequently at odds with more reasonable folks on this board. You think there’s nothing wrong or worrisome with this request and actually believe the government will use this technology responsibly. I bet you fell hook, line, and sinker when James Clapper lied to us all about mass surveillance. He should be in jail and your type should open your eyes. His type have their eyes open. That’s what’s sad. ---
**Author:** ![Grsz11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Grsz11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grsz11)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-apple-help-the-government-hack-into-encrypted-devices/746333/213 "2016-02-18T12:09:04Z")
I have seen it stated that Apple has already weakened its security at the request of the Chinese government to gain access to that market. Can somebody elaborate on that claim? ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-apple-help-the-government-hack-into-encrypted-devices/746333/214 "2016-02-18T13:35:15Z")
> [@Grsz11](#): > > I have seen it stated that Apple has already weakened its security at the request of the Chinese government to gain access to that market. Can somebody elaborate on that claim? [Here](http://qz.com/618371/apple-is-openly-defying-us-security-orders-but-in-china-it-takes-a-very-different-approach/) and [here](http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-china-security-audits-nsa-2015-1?r=UK&IR=T). Unfortunately, no one really knows what “security audits” entails since Apple won’t answer direct and specific questions about the process. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-apple-help-the-government-hack-into-encrypted-devices/746333/215 "2016-02-18T14:23:21Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > The encryption used is unbreakable with a strong password, and everyone acknowledges that Apple doesn’t have, can’t have, the key. The government just wants the ability to try to guess the password. My understanding of the situation is that the passcode that the FBI wants to use brute force on without wiping the phone is the 4-digit passcode that opens the phone for use. It will be a trivial matter to try the 9,999 possibilities for that code once the FBI has the trojan OS running that defeats the 10 tries limit. Once the phone is open, won’t any encrypted data be viewable without any further keys being required? ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-apple-help-the-government-hack-into-encrypted-devices/746333/216 "2016-02-18T14:49:10Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > My understanding of the situation is that the passcode that the FBI wants to use brute force on without wiping the phone is the 4-digit passcode that opens the phone for use. It will be a trivial matter to try the 9,999 possibilities for that code once the FBI has the trojan OS running that defeats the 10 tries limit. That’s interesting that the terrorists, who went to the trouble of physically destroying other phones, would protect their data with only the simple password option on their iPhone. I would have thought they would use the alphanumeric password like my company forces me to use on mine. Strong encryption doesn’t mean much with a four-number password. > [@](#): > > Once the phone is open, won’t any encrypted data be viewable without any further keys being required? Yes, unless they were using apps that further encrypt stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-apple-help-the-government-hack-into-encrypted-devices/746333/217 "2016-02-18T14:55:42Z")
Reflecting on this issue last night, it occurred to me that there’s two questions here: the legal/policy question of whether this is the right thing to do, and then several technological questions that are all tied up together. It seems to me that this country passed the legal Rubicon long ago of whether a technology company can be compelled to do something more than passively stand aside while a search is conducted, what with the history of wiretaps going back the better part of a century. **Bricker** ’s points about how the Government may not be applying the correct law to these set of circumstances, and that Congress may have to legislate to address searches of devices like this, seems pretty valid. Many of you have expressed an opposing principle, that it is simply unjust to make Apple make such a tool. In my view, if the government can compel Verizon to make tools to tap phone lines, and the government can compel Internet companies like Facebook or Google to comply with other kinds of searches, I don’t see what is so special about Apple that the same principle shouldn’t apply to them – if the law allows for it. So to the technology question. I’m clearly reading between the lines here, and who knows what ground truth is, but I’m more convinced that the “backdoor” already exists, and Apple doth protest too much. Here’s why: Tim Cook says that Apple has worked with the FBI quite a bit, up to a point. Then there’s a court order that has a remarkably specific direction for what Apple is being directed to do. The order doesn’t say, “Apple must do everything in its power, whatever that may be, to get the FBI into this phone.” It says, “Apple is directed to build a tool to do X, Y, and Z, no more and no less.” Plus, Cook’s letter isn’t claiming that it is impossible to build such a tool to assist the FBI in gaining access to the phone. He’s saying it is bad policy to require Apple to build such a tool. If it were impossible to do so, why isn’t he screaming from the rooftops that his company, under penalty of law, is being forced to do something that’s impossible? In my mind, it’s probably because Apple engineers led the FBI to the solution in their discussions, and are now balking at going any further. That means that Apple probably knows exactly how to build a tool that does the X, Y, and Z that the court order specifies (and who knows, they may have it already), but they don’t want to take the additional step of building the software to exploit the vulnerability that they know exists already. Given this, and my opinion that Apple is probably going to be forced to comply sooner or later, I propose a strategy for Apple when they eventually lose. Build the tool that the FBI wants, collect the $10k, $100k, $1m, or whatever is the reasonable cost of compensation from the government, apply the tool to the device in question, and then delete the tool. The tool never enters the government’s hands, and if they ever want to use a similar tool again in the future, they’re going to have to pay for it again. And again. And again. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-apple-help-the-government-hack-into-encrypted-devices/746333/218 "2016-02-18T15:18:55Z")
ISTM that if you can get a warrant to search a computer then you can get a warrant to search an iphone and the privacy concerns disappear. Like it or not, we give government the right to search and seize if they have sufficient cause and follow due process. The question is whether they can force a third party to help them in their search and seizure. Whether then can forcibly deputize Apple to create a method of breaking into the state owned encrypted phone of a known terrorist and mass murderer. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-apple-help-the-government-hack-into-encrypted-devices/746333/219 "2016-02-18T15:22:20Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Plus, Cook’s letter isn’t claiming that it is impossible to build such a tool to assist the FBI in gaining access to the phone. He’s saying it is bad policy to require Apple to build such a tool. If it were impossible to do so, why isn’t he screaming from the rooftops that his company, under penalty of law, is being forced to do something that’s impossible? I’m no lawyer, but I imagine if I was I’d advise Tim Cook not to use words such as “impossible” unless he’s absolutely 100% sure that it really is impossible and not “as far as we know it is impossible.” ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-apple-help-the-government-hack-into-encrypted-devices/746333/220 "2016-02-18T15:24:59Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > I’m no lawyer, but I imagine if I was I’d advise Tim Cook not to use words such as “impossible” unless he’s absolutely 100% sure that it really is impossible and not “as far as we know it is impossible.” Aaaaaand I just now see this [article](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/02/17/apple-unlocked-iphones-for-the-feds-70-times-before.html). Apple clearly has the ability to do so, and the Department of Homeland Security has the ability to unlock the 8.1.2 version of iOS. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-apple-help-the-government-hack-into-encrypted-devices/746333.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-apple-help-the-government-hack-into-encrypted-devices/746333.md?page=12)