# Should “Attack Ads” Be Permitted? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 3, 2022, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-attack-ads-be-permitted/974313 "2022-11-03T23:35:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2022, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-attack-ads-be-permitted/974313/21 "2022-11-04T04:01:12Z")
Yes, even if it’s provably false. President Biden recently said that gas was over $5.00 when he took office. It was actually $2.39. Should he be held legally accountable for making a provably false statement at a political event? ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2022, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-attack-ads-be-permitted/974313/22 "2022-11-04T04:03:03Z")
Of course not, since all speech is allowed unless it incites sedition or creates panic, and lying about the price of gas does neither. So anyone can say anything without worrying about consequences, unless that strong and free press catches them! ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2022, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-attack-ads-be-permitted/974313/23 "2022-11-04T04:04:29Z")
If that’s the case, why should “attack ads” be banned? ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2022, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-attack-ads-be-permitted/974313/24 "2022-11-04T04:05:50Z")
Attack ads can’t and never will be banned. I was making a straw argument to see if anyone would take the bait. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2022, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-attack-ads-be-permitted/974313/25 "2022-11-04T04:28:10Z")
Moderating: > [@dolphinboy](#): > > Attack ads can’t and never will be banned. I was making a straw argument to see if anyone would take the bait. If you’re going to troll the board even to make a point, it’s a good idea to not admit it in a post. Intentional straw man arguments are not permitted, and trolling certainly is never allowed. Knock it off. Will be a warning next time. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2022, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-attack-ads-be-permitted/974313/26 "2022-11-04T07:58:33Z")
Curse you for making me agree with D\_Anconia, you dastard. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2022, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-attack-ads-be-permitted/974313/27 "2022-11-04T10:08:14Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Are you beginning to understand the folly of putting political appointees in charge of deciding what candidates are allowed to say? The same sort of issues arise in allowing the government to decide that, no, you don’t get to market [“ **100% LEAN BEEF** _brand desiccated corn husks_”](https://www.straightdope.com/21341321/how-can-grape-nuts-cereal-contain-no-grapes-or-nuts), and yet we have a system of advertising regulation. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2022, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-attack-ads-be-permitted/974313/28 "2022-11-04T13:58:13Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > yet we have a system of advertising regulation. Which allows for “puffery”, factually untrue statements which advertisers are allowed to use. > **[Puffery](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puffery)** > > In colloquial language, puffery refers to exaggerated or false praise. Puffery serves to "puff up" what is being described. In law, puffery is usually invoked as a defense argument: it identifies futile speech, typically of a seller, which does not give rise to legal liability. In a circular manner, legal explanations for this normative position describe the non-enforceable speech as a statement that no "reasonable person" would take seriously anyway. > In a legal context, the term originated in t... It’s not as clear-cut as you might think it is. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2022, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-attack-ads-be-permitted/974313/29 "2022-11-04T14:08:15Z")
I’d like to think that people are intelligent enough to realize that, if all an individual can do is attack and besmirch his opponent and distort/misrepresent facts, then he has nothing worthwhile to offer of his own. Unfortunately, that is not the case. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2022, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-attack-ads-be-permitted/974313/30 "2022-11-04T14:13:15Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > Attack ads are a thing in Canada but are usually milder and not nearly to the extent they are in some countries. Don’t [sell your politicians short](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nb4k1QgV-E). ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2022, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-attack-ads-be-permitted/974313/31 "2022-11-04T14:16:28Z")
What if your opponent is so singularly awful that the primary distinctions between them and you is that they’re awful, and you’re normal? Like, say, Biden vs. Trump? How do you campaign without pointing out how awful they are? ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2022, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-attack-ads-be-permitted/974313/32 "2022-11-04T17:26:15Z")
Even the craziest attack ads I’ve seen are misrepresentations, not lies. My all-time favorite was one that ran about a local politician in 2020. I guess the opposition research team ran a public records search and linked a drug arrest to one one the many rental properties owned by Candidate X. They built an ad campaign around it……_Joe Dealer sold drugs and Candidate X got the money._ Really, all that proved was that the drug dealer paid his rent, but it was quite dramatic and technically true. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2022, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-attack-ads-be-permitted/974313/33 "2022-11-04T18:32:05Z")
Political TV ads of all kinds are bad. The length and medium only allows for tabloid plays on emotion. I doubt there’s a way to get rid of them in the US though. First amendment, the amount of money in politics and ad providers enjoying that money more than their souls all conspire to make that true. Also even I can’t yet bring myself to pay to avoid ads on youtube, even though political ads push me quite close. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2022, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-attack-ads-be-permitted/974313/34 "2022-11-04T18:33:21Z")
It’s not like they need my help to do so. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2022, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-attack-ads-be-permitted/974313/35 "2022-11-04T18:44:07Z")
Of course so-called ‘attack ads’ should be permitted. It’s interesting this phenomenon of creating a label for some form of speech that one opposes and thinking that that label is somehow powerful enough to overcome one’s right to free speech. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2022, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-attack-ads-be-permitted/974313/36 "2022-11-04T18:55:56Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > I wasn’t thinking about the government per se, more like judges who would be presented with evidence that an ad is false and deem it either false or true. The problem with that is, courts often don’t move fast enough. If I were to put out an ad today saying that a candidate for election this coming Tuesday is a Lying Shizno, what does it matter if some judge says that’s a lie next Wednesday? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.winston_oboogie/32/2945_2.png) [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Winston_OBoogie)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2022, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-attack-ads-be-permitted/974313/37 "2022-11-04T19:02:15Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > Well, you could base it on the accuracy of the ad. If there’s a provable lie, that should disqualify it. Isn’t there something about truth in advertising? Advertisers can’t blatantly lie about their product, why should politicians be allowed to? Illinois has an amendment on the ballot, making unions constitutionally protected, as would be ‘closed’ workplaces (i.e. it’s a union shop, and you HAVE to join the union if you want to work there). The People Who Play By the Rules PAC (the same ones bolstering Darren Bailey and putting out faked newspapers) are running adds saying that Amendment 1 would raise your property taxes by $2100! I was able to track down how they got to that. Here’s their logic: 1. If it passes, Illinois could not lower property taxes. (Not sure how they got that - there’s nothing in there about taxes at all; maybe it’s “the state will owe too much to the government unions, so they couldn’t lower taxes”) 2. Over the next 4 years, the worth of your house will go up. (I’m not sure if this was based on overall real estate inflation, expected increase in sales price of properties sold, or increase in cost of new home sales; also not sure what inflationary numbers they were using) 3. Your tax bill over the next 4 years will be greater than your current tax bill by a combined $2,100 No matter what, that’s a pretty far stretch. But, is there enough “truth” there so that it isn’t a lie? > [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > Even the craziest attack ads I’ve seen are misrepresentations, not lies. Same people are SCREAMING that come January 1, the Illinois jails will be emptied because of the removal of cash bail. Nope. You already in jail because you can’t post bail? You stay in jail until you can post bail. New case? Judge can say “you’re a threat; remanded to custody.” Judge can also say “you’re not a threat; come back for your trial date.” Ain’t no way that’s a “misrepresentation” - it’s a straight out lie. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2022, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-attack-ads-be-permitted/974313/38 "2022-11-04T19:29:00Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Of course so-called ‘attack ads’ should be permitted. It’s interesting this phenomenon of creating a label for some form of speech that one opposes and thinking that that label is somehow powerful enough to overcome one’s right to free speech. The phrase “attack ad” is not some new label meant to stifle free speech. It’s a clearly understood label that’s been around quite some time to indicate ads that attack the opponent rather than prop up the candidate. What would you call them? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2022, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-attack-ads-be-permitted/974313/39 "2022-11-04T19:29:46Z")
> [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](#): > > If it passes, Illinois could not lower property taxes. (Not sure how they got that - there’s nothing in there about taxes at all; maybe it’s “the state will owe too much to the government unions, so they couldn’t lower taxes”) Read point #3 from this non-partisan website about the taxes: [8 reasons Illinois voters should reject Amendment 1 (illinoispolicy.org)](https://www.illinoispolicy.org/8-reasons-illinois-voters-should-reject-amendment-1/) As for the cash bail, even J.B. acknowledges that changes to the law need to be made, even though it hasn’t even gone into effect. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2022, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-attack-ads-be-permitted/974313/40 "2022-11-04T19:37:30Z")
Bolding mine: > [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Read point #3 from this **non-partisan** website about the taxes: > The **Illinois Policy Institute** **(IPI)** is a libertarian nonprofit [think tank](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Think_tank) > > The group worked closely with former Illinois Governor [Bruce Rauner](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Rauner), a Republican and past donor to IPI,[[11]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illinois_Policy_Institute#cite_note-11) during the first several years of his gubernatorial tenure. > > IPI formerly operated the Illinois News Network, transferring ownership of that entity to the [Franklin Center for Government and Public Integrity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_Center_for_Government_and_Public_Integrity) in January 2018. IPI has received financial support from charitable foundations associated with the Koch, Mercer, Uihlein, and Rauner families.[[10]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illinois_Policy_Institute#cite_note-10) > > **John Tillman** is a conservative activist who runs the [Illinois Policy Institute](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illinois_Policy_Institute) (IPI), a libertarian [think tank](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Think_tank), and the American Culture Project, which seeks to advance Republican Party interests. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-attack-ads-be-permitted/974313.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-attack-ads-be-permitted/974313.md?page=3)