# Should Austin Texas change it's name? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 31, 2018, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-austin-texas-change-its-name/818861 "2018-07-31T12:07:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-austin-texas-change-its-name/818861/61 "2018-07-31T21:42:18Z")
Might as well just not use names derived after people at this point. Random numbers and symbols would be less likely to offend the perpetually aggrieved. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-austin-texas-change-its-name/818861/62 "2018-07-31T22:01:06Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Might as well just not use names derived after people at this point. Random numbers and symbols would be less likely to offend the perpetually aggrieved. Won’t this cause a problem when people named with random numbers and symbols start get caught doing bad things? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-austin-texas-change-its-name/818861/63 "2018-07-31T22:03:40Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Might as well just not use names derived after people at this point. Random numbers and symbols would be less likely to offend the perpetually aggrieved. Well, I like cephalopods. Can we kill two birds with one stone - just call you Austin and rename the city Octopus? ---
**Author:** ![Jungian\_Camisole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8baadc/32.png) [@Jungian\_Camisole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jungian_Camisole)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2018, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-austin-texas-change-its-name/818861/64 "2018-08-01T00:32:21Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > No! Dumb idea. Cosign. Do not fuck with my favorite city. The majority of people who live in this city (looking at you, Greg Abbott!) are fantastic. There’s righteous SJW stuff, and there is stupid SJW. This is stupid. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2018, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-austin-texas-change-its-name/818861/65 "2018-08-01T01:24:44Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > … exponential growth that has played the historically most significant role in producing the relatively recent vast increase in global population size. I think you are on very solid ground here. Clearly, the main effect of people is more people. ---
**Author:** ![BeeGee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5a626/32.png) [@BeeGee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeeGee)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2018, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-austin-texas-change-its-name/818861/66 "2018-08-01T04:43:14Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > OU-shteen. I am obligated to inform you that this idea still sucks. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2018, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-austin-texas-change-its-name/818861/67 "2018-08-01T05:04:34Z")
The people attempting to change the name of the city are virtue-signalling. They know there is no chance in hell of the name being changed. They _know_ it. They are doing what they are doing because that’s what those kind of people do. The Trump supporters, which I presume to include the OP, also engage in virtue signalling whenever they bring up incidents like this as some kind of example of how America is fucked up. “The liberals” want to do this or that, as if a proposed suggestion that’s being “considered” by a few members of a council is in any way indicative of all the larger social trends that they view as everything that’s wrong with American society today. The problem is that because of the internet and the nature of how news is spread and discussed today, nothing ever happens in a vacuum anymore. Twenty years ago or even ten years ago, these same deluded people suggesting that Austin’s name be changed, would have perhaps garnered some minor mentions in newspapers, some people would have chuckled, and then they would have moved on. Today, every time something like this happens, it spawns threads like this one. I’m quite certain the people at The\_Donald reddit are crowing over this thing in Austin right now and jerking off over how idiotic it is. I’m sure a lot of people all over Texas and all over America are posting about this on Facebook and Twitter. I wouldn’t even be all that surprised if Donald Trump himself got wind of this and mentioned it in a speech somewhere or other. “They want to change the name of Austin, Texas. Austin, Texas. Do we love Austin? Isn’t Austin great? Austin, Texas, folks, and they want to change the name…BOOOOOOOOOOOO!” That’s the world we live in today. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2018, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-austin-texas-change-its-name/818861/68 "2018-08-01T05:07:19Z")
Baustin. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2018, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-austin-texas-change-its-name/818861/69 "2018-08-01T05:15:55Z")
How about [Jort](https://www.google.com/search?q=jorts&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwih7LzHjMvcAhVCL6wKHX9uBlgQ_AUICigB&biw=1920&bih=943)land? ---
**Author:** ![Desert\_Nomad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desert_nomad/32/177_2.png) [@Desert\_Nomad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desert_Nomad)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2018, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-austin-texas-change-its-name/818861/70 "2018-08-01T05:57:28Z")
They can call it Leftyville of Commiegrad. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2018, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-austin-texas-change-its-name/818861/71 "2018-08-01T12:40:20Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > The people attempting to change the name of the city are virtue-signalling. They know there is no chance in hell of the name being changed. They _know_ it. They are doing what they are doing because that’s what those kind of people do. > > The Trump supporters, which I presume to include the OP, _ **also engage in virtue signalling whenever they bring up incidents like this as some kind of example of how America is fucked up** _. “The liberals” want to do this or that, as if a proposed suggestion that’s being “considered” by a few members of a council is in any way indicative of all the larger social trends that they view as everything that’s wrong with American society today. > > The problem is that because of the internet and the nature of how news is spread and discussed today, nothing ever happens in a vacuum anymore. _ **Twenty years ago or even ten years ago, these same deluded people suggesting that Austin’s name be changed, would have perhaps garnered some minor mentions in newspapers, some people would have chuckled, and then they would have moved on** _. Today, every time something like this happens, it spawns threads like this one. I’m quite certain the people at The\_Donald reddit are crowing over this thing in Austin right now and jerking off over how idiotic it is. I’m sure a lot of people all over Texas and all over America are posting about this on Facebook and Twitter. I wouldn’t even be all that surprised if Donald Trump himself got wind of this and mentioned it in a speech somewhere or other. > > “They want to change the name of Austin, Texas. Austin, Texas. Do we love Austin? Isn’t Austin great? Austin, Texas, folks, and they want to change the name…BOOOOOOOOOOOO!” > > That’s the world we live in today. (added emphasis mine) Exactly. _“I know it’s not true. I want to make him have to deny it”._ And making a big deal about such a crank proposal ties in with… > [@John\_Mace](#): > > That poster probably didn’t intend it this way, but the slipper slope argument does hold here in this sense: If this was an actual movement to change most names of cities in this manner, the Democrats could kiss the presidency goodbye for a generation. … essentially to establish a narrative that “the Liberals” must be stopped because they want to “destroy our way of life”. _Even when it happens somewhere else and does not affect “us”._ Forcing people to waste time on explaining it is NOT what it looks like. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2018, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-austin-texas-change-its-name/818861/72 "2018-08-01T12:54:22Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > like a massive stampede of rabid armadillo. I think armadillos carry the plague and not rabies. ETA: Or is it leprosy? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2018, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-austin-texas-change-its-name/818861/73 "2018-08-01T13:06:53Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > I think armadillos carry the plague and not rabies. > > ETA: Or is it leprosy? It’s the heartbreak of psoriasis. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2018, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-austin-texas-change-its-name/818861/74 "2018-08-01T14:32:35Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I think this is a good point. I see a distinction between honoring a person _because of_ something they did that you find objectionable vs. honoring someone _in spite of_ something they did that you find objectionable. I think it’s a reasonably plausible attempt to rationalize the general movement of what I’d call PC iconoclasm. Reasonable people on the left naturally try to find reasonable rationalizations for the extremes on their side. However whether that argument actually explains all recent PC iconoclasm, rather than the Occam’s Razor explanation (virtue signalling on a slippery slope), is more debatable IMO. PC iconoclasm isn’t limited to US slavery or the Confederacy. For example Columbus is a prime target of PC iconoclasm, and he has never been celebrated _because_ of bad treatment of natives in the Caribbean. Same goes for Junipero Serra in CA mentioned above. Nor are all public remembrances of Confederate figures _because_ of their support of slavery. There’s the whole debate about recognizing Confederate military excellence, as part of the US military tradition, as opposed to the underlying cause of the Confederate armies. Some iconoclasts accept that distinction (‘OK, keep memorials at battlefields, not downtown’), others don’t. There is a reasonable, limited, argument IMO that many remembrances of the CSA had (or even have) political implications in subsequent racial/civil rights debates. Although sometimes that argument is stretched also. For example statues put up in say the 1920’s were not necessarily to ‘keep blacks in their place’ since that wasn’t really in play at the time as it was when some state flags were CSA’ized or the CSA battle flag itself started being flown from state capitols in only the 1950’s or even 60’s. Or likewise in the 1890’s when Jim Crow was only being consolidated. In say the 1910’s-20’s the people putting up the statue surely believed in white supremacy, and we can certainly make clear our disagreement with them. But it isn’t actually necessarily true they put up the statue at that time _because_ of that belief rather than money finally being available in the poor South by then. It’s open to interpretation in many cases, even on the _relatively_ strong ground of the argument ‘I’m against that statue because it _celebrates_ support of slavery’. But again that argument doesn’t nearly completely cover other areas of PC iconoclasm. The idea that ‘treason’ is the cause to take down the statues though is hard to take seriously. Modern sensibilities on the left heavily weigh moral imperatives over ‘empty patriotism’. In Vietnam the US was wrong (in the basic worldview descended from the counter culture), that was the key factor. ‘Ho-Ho-Ho Chi Minh, the NLF is gonna win!’ etc. can be taken as a metaphor or just forgotten; Jane Fonda said she was sorry for some of the displays on her visit to NV so forget it. Not trying to derail, just really doubting ‘treason’ as separate from the slavery issue for people who actively want to root out memorializing CSA figures, and just recently, when it wasn’t such a big deal for a long time. Again the best argument for that is to say the memorials are _because_ of support for slavery, and later white supremacist social policies. Though that’s not a killer argument in favor of all PC iconoclasm IMO. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2018, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-austin-texas-change-its-name/818861/75 "2018-08-01T14:46:47Z")
Just a coupla points: Yes, keeping the blacks in their place was as strong an imperative in the 1920’s as at any other time. That was the height of lynchings, following the recent resurgence of the KKK and reaction to black migration out of the South and other signs of uppitiness. We also now generally recognize (with some holdouts) that the cause of secession was the retention of slavery. Treason was a result rather than a cause, yes, but it’s hard to take seriously a claim that it’s hard to take seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Goodnight-Loving](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9fc29f/32.png) [@Goodnight-Loving](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Goodnight-Loving)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2018, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-austin-texas-change-its-name/818861/76 "2018-08-01T14:58:15Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Austin is the county seat of Travis County named after William B. Travis: > [William B. Travis - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_B._Travis) > > So an obvious alternative is Travis–the county seat of Travis county. > > Or is William B. Travis objectionable too? > > Unfortunately there already is a Travis, Texas. But that community only has 60 people–so that name could be changed. Travis’ slave Joe was a notable survivor of the Battle of the Alamo, from whom much of the defenders’ side of the story is known. So probably equally objectionable. ---
**Author:** ![Carryon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Carryon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carryon)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2018, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-austin-texas-change-its-name/818861/77 "2018-08-01T15:58:08Z")
I am waiting for them to change the name of Indiana ---
**Author:** ![BeeGee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5a626/32.png) [@BeeGee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeeGee)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2018, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-austin-texas-change-its-name/818861/78 "2018-08-01T18:30:00Z")
I read the report. > **[Conferderate-Stuff-From-Equity-Office.pdf](https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/4619602/Conferderate-Stuff-From-Equity-Office.pdf)** > > 1795.90 KB There is no proposition to change the name of the city in the report. There are a list of items that are recommended for change right away. “Assets slated for initial review” Lee Elementary and Jeff Davis St. have been renamed. The longer list is a list of pretty much everything that could be deemed objectionable, what it is, who it’s named for, who that person is, and what entity would be responsible for any changes. Down on page 22, it says: Asset name: Stephen F. Austin Drive, Austin city name, & Rec Center Notes/Context: Fought to defend slavery in spite of Mexico’s effort to ban it; believed slave labor indispensable for Texas to flourish in it’s production of sugar and cotton; believed that if slaves were emancipated they would turn into “vagabonds, a nuisances and a menace.” Wanted slave owners to be compensated if their slaves were emancipated. Liability (who has to fix it): City Priority: Medium Comments: none So they’ve got 23 items for a secondary list with NO recommendation to do anything about them. There are also reports about what Dallas and New Orleans are doing in a similar situation. I read it like this: Here’s a list of obvious stuff. This should be fixed. Here’s a list of how far this could go if someone really wanted to push it. Here’s how Dallas and New Orleans are dealing with it. Now figure out where you’re going to draw the lines. But it’s much easier to run around in outrage at what those crazy liberals are trying to do than read the report. Personally, I’d take everything with the Keep Austin Weird slogan and dump it in a land fill, but no one asked me. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2018, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-austin-texas-change-its-name/818861/79 "2018-08-01T19:24:45Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > ……sweeping across Texas like a massive stampede of rabid armadillo. Man, that would be a sight to behold, wouldn’t it? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2018, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-austin-texas-change-its-name/818861/80 "2018-08-01T21:52:21Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > I think armadillos carry the plague and not rabies. > > ETA: Or is it leprosy? Leprosy, yes. Most mammals have too high of a body temperature to sustain the bacteria, but humans and armadillos can keep it alive. Plague and rabies can be transmitted by more species, but aren’t as common because the mortality rate is very high. Leprosy can stay in an animal for years without killing it, and is infectious for much of that time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-austin-texas-change-its-name/818861.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-austin-texas-change-its-name/818861.md?page=5)