# Should Barbaric Practices Be Stopped **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 6, 2010, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-barbaric-practices-be-stopped/552837 "2010-09-06T21:24:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-barbaric-practices-be-stopped/552837/41 "2010-09-08T00:17:12Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It’s culturally bigoted at the least and any sentence which contains the phrase “…doing better than being bushmen in the jungle” carries racial overtones whther you’re aware of it or not. So are you saying all cultures are equal? Also now that I think of it “bushmen in the jungle” can sound pretty racist to some people, sorry. > [@](#): > > And what do you mean by “fruitful and productive?” Fruitful and productive for who? For themselves, the employers, and Papua New Guinea. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-barbaric-practices-be-stopped/552837/42 "2010-09-08T00:28:19Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > It’s culturally bigoted at the least and any sentence which contains the phrase “…doing better than being bushmen in the jungle” carries racial overtones whther you’re aware of it or not. > > So are you saying all cultures are equal? Equal in what way? I think the _people_ in those cultures are equal and it’s ignorant and supercilious to decide that they can be “better than bushmen.” That is holistically dismissive in a way which is purely ethnocentric. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > And what do you mean by “fruitful and productive?” Fruitful and productive for who? > > For themselves, the employers, and Papua New Guinea. Why do they need employers? For those who do have employers, what is your basis for saying they’re not productive already? ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-barbaric-practices-be-stopped/552837/43 "2010-09-08T00:37:27Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > America is on the whole not even remotely well meaning. America is a nation built on greed and hatred, a nation which holds compassion and scruples in contempt. At most, we’ll launch assaults out of greed using supposed barbarism as an excuse; and even if the “barbarism” in question actually exists we aren’t likely to even try to do anything but make matters worse. Iraq being an example of that kind of behavior. In other words, barbarians like us aren’t a group you can rely on to stop barbarism. Cool story bro. \*\* As a general rule, barbaric practices should be stopped, but let’s not in haste forget to make an exception for skimpy fur bras and Conan. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-barbaric-practices-be-stopped/552837/44 "2010-09-08T00:40:29Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > > > So are you saying all cultures are equal? > > Equal in what way? I think the _people_ in those cultures are equal and it’s ignorant and supercilious to decide that they can be “better than bushmen.” That is holistically dismissive in a way which is purely ethnocentric. > > > [@](#): > > > > Yes I do think people in any culture are equal but a culture can be better or worse compared to some other culture. > > > [@](#): > > > > For themselves, the employers, and Papua New Guinea. > > Why do they need employers? For those who do have employers, what is your basis for saying they’re not productive already? I mean be part of the global economy. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-barbaric-practices-be-stopped/552837/45 "2010-09-08T00:44:01Z")
> [@Autolycus](#): > > As a general rule, barbaric practices should be stopped, but let’s not in haste forget to make an exception for skimpy fur bras and Conan. After all, skimpy fur bras and Conan are what’s best in life! ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-barbaric-practices-be-stopped/552837/46 "2010-09-08T00:50:32Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > It’s culturally bigoted at the least and any sentence which contains the phrase “…doing better than being bushmen in the jungle” carries racial overtones whther you’re aware of it or not. > > So are you saying all cultures are equal? Also now that I think of it “bushmen in the jungle” can sound pretty racist to some people, sorry. Cultures are greatly influenced by their natural environment. There’s nothing racist about _that_ observation, and it does help to explain to a certain degree why some regions are “doing better” than others. Curtis, I’d recommend you read “Guns, Germs and Steel” by Jared Diamond. I’m quite sure you won’t agree with all of it, but the book does make a good argument for environment being an extremely important factor in the development of civilizations. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-barbaric-practices-be-stopped/552837/47 "2010-09-08T16:47:17Z")
I don’t really consider cannibalism to be barbaric. The person’s dead, who cares what happens after? I would totally impose my values on things like torture though, especially for cultural and religious reasons. I’m against genital mutilation in all forms, for any reason. I don’t really give a shit what people think, I’ll gladly slaughter a whole village of idiots if they insist on mutilating their daughters. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-barbaric-practices-be-stopped/552837/48 "2010-09-09T01:05:00Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > I don’t really consider cannibalism to be barbaric. The person’s dead, who cares what happens after? > > I would totally impose my values on things like torture though, especially for cultural and religious reasons. I’m against genital mutilation in all forms, for any reason. I don’t really give a shit what people think, I’ll gladly slaughter a whole village of idiots if they insist on mutilating their daughters. So 100 people\ **Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-barbaric-practices-be-stopped/552837/49 "2010-09-09T02:07:14Z") > [@Fried\_Dough\_Ho](#): > > Who are we to define what is barbaric for another culture and then impose our values on them? Who is the aggressor in the other culture to decide what is appropriate for their victim and impose their values on the victim? This sort of anti-ethnocentrism falls apart under the most cursory examination. If it’s poor form to impose your values on a culture, then it’s poor form to impose your values on a culture that’s ethnocentric, and you should knock it off. If it’s reasonable to impose values on another culture, then doing so is reasonable, and this anti-ethnocentric argument is silly. What’s more, it’s ridiculous to suggest that morality is determined by political boundaries, to suggest that it’s okay to throw one’s wife into the cooking fire in Mumbai but not in Manhattan, or to suggest that it’s acceptable to let people freeze to death on the streets of Chicago but not Oslo. Folks are folks, and humans are humans, and if your neighbor shouldn’t eat your kid, then some dude halfway around the world shouldn’t eat his neighbor’s kid either, no matter what cultural tradition dictates there or here. So yes: let’s do our best to end barbaric practices, starting with our own. As **Dio** hinted, however, it’s very difficult to make effective headways in other cultures, especially for Americans and Europeans. We’ve got a very long history of declaring other cultures wrong simply because they’re different from our own, and that understandably pisses other folks off. Women in Africa who are working to end FGM, for example, have written an open letter to Western feminists telling them to butt the hell out and let them handle it. **Yog Sothoth’s** post demonstrates why: he’s yet another Westerner willing to destroy the village in order to save it, whereas the women in Africa working to end FGM have grandmothers, sisters, and daughters in that village of idiots. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-barbaric-practices-be-stopped/552837/50 "2010-09-09T13:06:45Z")
Moral relativism only works with things that are minor, and thus more trouble to change than they are to allow. Heck, despite what most fundamentalists teach, Christianity even teaches a form of moral relativism. Take a look at [Romans 14](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+14&version=NIV), for example. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-barbaric-practices-be-stopped/552837/51 "2010-09-09T14:40:07Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > Equal in what way? I think the _people_ in those cultures are equal and it’s ignorant and supercilious to decide that they can be “better than bushmen.” That is holistically dismissive in a way which is purely ethnocentric. > > Yes I do think people in any culture are equal but a culture can be better or worse compared to some other culture. > > > > Why do they need employers? For those who do have employers, what is your basis for saying they’re not productive already? > > I mean be part of the global economy. Why in hell is it necessary for the resident of Papua New Guinea to “be part of the global economy?” If their way of life is working for them (and that’s for them to decide), who are you to interfere and decide that they need to be part of the “global economy?” ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-barbaric-practices-be-stopped/552837/52 "2010-09-09T14:58:23Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > [@Fried\_Dough\_Ho](#): > > > > Who are we to define what is barbaric for another culture and then impose our values on them? > > Who were we to decide that antisemitic genocide was wrong and impose our values on the Nazis? There is a pretty good argument to be made that if the Nazis had stayed in their own playground we wouldn’t have done jack. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-barbaric-practices-be-stopped/552837/53 "2010-09-09T20:17:17Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > So 100 people\ **Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-barbaric-practices-be-stopped/552837/54 "2010-09-09T22:12:31Z") > [@Ludovic](#): > > > [@Autolycus](#): > > > > As a general rule, barbaric practices should be stopped, but let’s not in haste forget to make an exception for skimpy fur bras and Conan. > > After all, skimpy fur bras and Conan are what’s best in life! Well, that, and crushing your enemies, seeing them driven before you, and hearing the lamentation of their women. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-barbaric-practices-be-stopped/552837/55 "2010-09-10T01:04:33Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Moral relativism only works with things that are minor, and thus more trouble to change than they are to allow. > > Heck, despite what most fundamentalists teach, Christianity even teaches a form of moral relativism. Take a look at [Romans 14](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+14&version=NIV), for example. I think it means certain people are more likely to be tempted by say drinking than those whose faith are strong. > [@YogSosoth](#): > > > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > > > So 100 people\ > Lives don’t have intrinsic worth. Pain, however, is felt pretty universally, and detested. So the lives of a hundred torturers aren’t worth shit compared to the pain and suffering of one girl. There’s also the fact that those who uphold such practices do so of their own choosing, but the girl has no such option to choose. It is forced on her, thus it makes it worse > > Yes, I do have a great sense of morality. Better than yours, it seems They were raised in their culture to do so and isn’t something you can change in one day. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-barbaric-practices-be-stopped/552837/56 "2010-09-10T04:17:56Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > I think it means certain people are more likely to be tempted by say drinking than those whose faith are strong. Yet in reality the opposite appears true; it’s the faithful who tend towards “immoral” behavior, who demonstrate less self control and more self indulgence. It’s the Bible Belt that has the higher divorce rate, the teens who swear to chastity that are more likely to have underage, unprotected sex. [Religion is not a good influence on society](http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article571206.ece). > [@](#): > > “In general, higher rates of belief in and worship of a creator correlate with higher rates of homicide, juvenile and early adult mortality, STD infection rates, teen pregnancy and abortion in the prosperous democracies. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-barbaric-practices-be-stopped/552837.md?page=2)