# Should Canada annex the Turks and Caicos Islands? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 16, 2003, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canada-annex-the-turks-and-caicos-islands/188828 "2003-07-16T06:53:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canada-annex-the-turks-and-caicos-islands/188828/21 "2003-07-16T16:06:04Z")
I have always wondered what they mean by an “uninhabitable” island. Does it simply not support agriculture or does it spend half the year underwater? Will a home on it get blown away by the next hurricane? Or is it a sandbar with only temporary status as an island? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canada-annex-the-turks-and-caicos-islands/188828/22 "2003-07-16T16:38:48Z")
Uusally it means that there are no sources of fresh water on the island. If you have to barge in your fresh water every month it isn’t really practicaly to live there year round. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canada-annex-the-turks-and-caicos-islands/188828/23 "2003-07-16T16:47:37Z")
I think no one lives there on a permanent basis. Given the lack of sources of fresh water why would anyone stay on some of these limestone reefs? Well yeah, the sun sand, beaches, breezes, scuba, snorkeling… Ok so we’re rushing decriminalized cannabis **but not this?** Still a pop of 12,000 as a territory would receive 1 senate seat (out of 105 now). PEI has 4, Alberta has 6 and Ontario has 24 for comparison. I don’t see how they could ever achieve provincial status and so acquire 4 seats on par with PEI. ---
**Author:** ![kingpengvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9dc877/32.png) [@kingpengvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kingpengvin)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canada-annex-the-turks-and-caicos-islands/188828/24 "2003-07-16T17:08:26Z")
Hooray!!! Let’s begin our Pax Canadiana! The 21st century belongs to Canada! We will gain an empire through freindly means thus ensuring no animosity against the home country and a thousand years of rule! next up should be… A Mediteranian island! Seriously though I think it is a good idea. Though we’d have some strange Canadians… I mean how can they be Canadian if they have never had to dig out of 20 or more cm of snow to get to work in February? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canada-annex-the-turks-and-caicos-islands/188828/25 "2003-07-16T17:09:05Z")
Doesn’t look like anyone has seriously asked the average Turk and Caico on the street about it. Shouldn’t they at least have a referendum about it? Or has US imperialism rubbed off on you people already? But hell, if they want it and you want it, why not? Just be sure you all truly understand the deal first, before adding another recipient to the transfer payment list and another grabby whinger in Commons. Be a little funny to have a place down there where the dollar in general use doesn’t have a green back, though. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canada-annex-the-turks-and-caicos-islands/188828/26 "2003-07-16T17:29:25Z")
From the CBC link > [@](#): > > In 1988, members of the Turks and Caicos government resolved to approach the Canadian government about establishing a special relationship. But alas, the idea of annexing a warm-weather island took back seat to the debate over free trade with the United States (something some Canadians consider annexation of a different variety). Of course those would be government types, but when 1 person per 1000 is on the executive/legislative branch seems like its popular. Another issue though is that our immigration policy had better be tightened up dramatically as the Turks and Caicos Islands seem to be ideally situated for refugees from Cuba or Haiti. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canada-annex-the-turks-and-caicos-islands/188828/27 "2003-07-16T17:48:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kingpengvin \* > **Hooray!!! Let’s begin our Pax Canadiana! The 21st century belongs to Canada!** Sounds good to THIS Yank.\*\* > [@](#): > > next up should be… A Mediteranian island!\*\* Looking over a list of the Commonwealth countries, may I suggest Crete? ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canada-annex-the-turks-and-caicos-islands/188828/28 "2003-07-16T18:05:16Z")
Hmmm… I got to thinking about this. Some issues, in random order: It seems that T&C is currently in the North American Numbering Plan (as is Canada), so the phone system would not need major changes. Electricity seems to be North American standard. Looks like they drive on the left though. No real reason to change that though; the Canadian provinces that changed to driving on the right back in the 1920s did so because they shared land borders with larger areas that drove on the right. Is the UK currently subsidising the Turks and Caicos, and, if so, by how much? Let’s take a worst-case scenario. If for some bizarre reason we had to pay for a year’s salary for every T&C resident, what would that be? The Islands have around 25 000 people; at, say, 40 000 per year per person, that’s a billion dollars per year. It’d be a lot, but we _could_ knock a billion off the budget surplus to do it for one year. But I can’t think of a reason we’d need to spend that much. More likely would be spending that billion on one-time infrastructure improvements and transition costs, plus much less on ongoing social payments. We’d have to find out what kinds of ongoing costs would be needed for administration and services. Immigration and borders might be the biggest thing. If suddenly the T&C were completley open to the rest of Canada, anyone who made it across the sea to the islands and snuck in could then make their way to the rest of Canada without passport control. Assuming they could get on a plane or boat. We would have to carefully consider refugee policy. Likewise, if northern Canadians could suddenly move to the T&C without restriction, would enough do that to overwhelm the Islands’ resources (land, fresh water, etc)? Fortunately, the distance and expense of traveling between the T&C and the rest of Canada would tend to attenuate such movements. We could probably learn from the US and UK on this issue though: how many people want to relocate each year to and from the US Virgin Islands, for example? ---
**Author:** ![NutMagnet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ea5d25/32.png) [@NutMagnet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NutMagnet)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canada-annex-the-turks-and-caicos-islands/188828/29 "2003-07-16T18:15:26Z")
Geez, you zany Canucks. Just go over there and declare war. Then you get to support them throughout the reconstruction. You rebuiild their entire infrastructure and then they can hate you. Don’t you guys know how to do anything? The bilingual thing oughta be fun though. That’ll probably be the biggest delay in the process. ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canada-annex-the-turks-and-caicos-islands/188828/30 "2003-07-16T19:07:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mazirian \* > \*\*Is there something we in the Free World can do for you oppressed victims of the Socialist States of Canada? Food parcels? Bibles? A portrait of Our Lord and Saviour George W. Bush to comfort you? \*\* Your ignorance of Canada is distressing. That’s the Socialist **Provinces** of Canada. Sheesh 😃 ---
**Author:** ![kingpengvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9dc877/32.png) [@kingpengvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kingpengvin)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canada-annex-the-turks-and-caicos-islands/188828/31 "2003-07-16T19:08:54Z")
See, we don’t need to invade or declare war… That is what makes our nation great. We don’t have to shove a gun in their face or pay them gobs of dough to make them like us. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canada-annex-the-turks-and-caicos-islands/188828/32 "2003-07-16T19:15:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dropzone \* > Looking over a list of the Commonwealth countries, may I suggest Crete? Two problems with this: 1. Crete is a part of the Republic of Greece; it’s Malta and Cyprus which are Commonwealth nations (assuming Cyprus still is.) While a Greco-Canadian War might be interesting, and a fascinating topic to write parodies about, I don’t think they’d want to go through with it. 2. I think I canb safely say that I speak in behalf of all Canadian Dopers in saying that Canadians feel that with the Alliance Party, they have quite a surfeit of Cretans already! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canada-annex-the-turks-and-caicos-islands/188828/33 "2003-07-16T19:29:03Z")
Well we were in Cyprus for 20 years. Why not go back? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canada-annex-the-turks-and-caicos-islands/188828/34 "2003-07-16T20:03:37Z")
Both Malta and Cyprus are on track to join the EU, which would make things interesting. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canada-annex-the-turks-and-caicos-islands/188828/35 "2003-07-16T20:14:20Z")
Did I say Crete? I truly am a cretin, then. My mind said Malta while my fingers typed Crete. My apologies. (One or another crappy Mediterranean island the Brits lost or nearly lost in WWII–easy to mix up. 😉 ) BTW, what did the British think when we invaded Grenada? I don’t remember Thatcher making much of a stink. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canada-annex-the-turks-and-caicos-islands/188828/36 "2003-07-16T20:17:19Z")
Which half of Cyprus? I was also wondering what we would do about maritime boundaries. Canada claims 200km currently. Down Turks/Caicos way we’d be bumping into a host of other islands/countries etc. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canada-annex-the-turks-and-caicos-islands/188828/37 "2003-07-16T21:36:26Z")
Well, what did France and St. Pierre et Miquélon do? They negotiated a zone with borders inside the 200 NM (I think it’s nautical miles, not kilometres, but I could be wrong). As a result, my map of Canada has a keyhole-shaped area off the east coast: the round part of the keyhole surrounds SPM, roughly equidistant on the Newfoundland side, and farther away on the other side, and there’s a straight lane extending from there out to the 200-NM limit and the open ocean. Interesting, especially since they found oil on it. The Turks & Caicos probably have all these borders worked out with neighbouring states already; why would they change? ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canada-annex-the-turks-and-caicos-islands/188828/38 "2003-07-16T23:23:05Z")
Typical jurisdiction is 5 nautical miles. The 200 exclusive economic zone was partially to ensure we screw over the fisheries in a uniquely Canadian way 😉 As for changing, well they’re colonial possessions and not an independent state. I would assume it’s already been done I’m just tossing things out. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canada-annex-the-turks-and-caicos-islands/188828/39 "2003-07-17T00:19:15Z")
> [@](#): > > BTW, what did the British think when we invaded Grenada? I don’t remember Thatcher making much of a stink. Grenada was an independant country, like Canada, not a colony like the T&C. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canada-annex-the-turks-and-caicos-islands/188828/40 "2003-07-17T00:25:06Z")
> [@](#): > > BTW, what did the British think when we invaded Grenada? I don’t remember Thatcher making much of a stink. Grenada was an independant country, like Canada, not a colony like the T&C. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canada-annex-the-turks-and-caicos-islands/188828.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canada-annex-the-turks-and-caicos-islands/188828.md?page=3)