# Should Canada Quit the Five Eyes? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 24, 2025, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canada-quit-the-five-eyes/1013323 "2025-01-24T05:07:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canada-quit-the-five-eyes/1013323/21 "2025-01-24T15:35:33Z")
Trump is one person and not the United States. Even his threats of tariffs have disrupted Canadian business and government. It is clear Trump is not friendly to Canada. It would be wrong to assume this generally applies to most Americans, or the longstanding ties that presumably exist. Some 12% of Americans favour invading Canada. Only 25% of Americans support tariffs on Canada and 50% of Americans oppose them. Dopers are not generally Trump supporters, and have other things to worry about rather than merely one of Trump’s many disruptive policies, more so since it is still somewhat undefined. It is interesting and curious that both the markets and the Mexicans are relatively unmoved by Trump’s blatherings. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canada-quit-the-five-eyes/1013323/22 "2025-01-24T15:38:42Z")
> [@aurora\_maire](#): > > Maybe the four of them should band together and kick the U.S. out. This. They could always let us back in if we come to our senses; though I wouldn’t blame them for waiting more than one election cycle. – that is admittedly a not-very-well-informed opinion. It might make more sense for them to just quietly start being very careful what information goes to the USA. Which I suspect they’re already doing, or trying to. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canada-quit-the-five-eyes/1013323/23 "2025-01-24T15:50:25Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Every nation keeps some (most) secrets to itself. Canada will surely review its policies about what to share and not share. That is irrespective of long term agreements. Yeah, this is my question: How automatic is this sharing? Can we decide on a case-by-case situation whether we share something, or not? As discussed above, there’s certain realities about Canada and the US, because of our long-standing relationship and geographical proximity. As with trade, we can’t just decouple ourselves, certainly not in any short time-frame. NORAD and NATO are fundamental to Canada’s defense, even if we’re not happy about that right now. As such, there’s some minimum of sharing we’ll have to keep doing, at least for now. But anything that’s not critical to NORAD? Yeah, maybe we should just keep those cards closer to our chest for now, if we are able to. ---
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canada-quit-the-five-eyes/1013323/24 "2025-01-24T15:55:07Z")
What information is Canada likely to ferret out or create that would be useful to keep from the US? The location and capacity of the Strategic Maple Syrup Reserve? The horse strength of the RCMP Musical Ride? Silliness aside, given how intertwined Canada is with the US militarily, economically, diplomatically, and politically, what intelligence would it gather that is critical to Canada and should be kept from the US? Seriously asking. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canada-quit-the-five-eyes/1013323/25 "2025-01-24T16:01:03Z")
> [@Kropotkin](#): > > Silliness aside, given how intertwined Canada is with the US militarily, economically, diplomatically, and politically, what intelligence would it gather that is critical to Canada and should be kept from the US? Seriously asking. Anything intelligence that, if shared with Russia, would harm Canada’s interests. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canada-quit-the-five-eyes/1013323/26 "2025-01-24T16:07:55Z")
> [@Kropotkin](#): > > What information is Canada likely to ferret out or create that would be useful to keep from the US? The location and capacity of the Strategic Maple Syrup Reserve? The horse strength of the RCMP Musical Ride? If there is no such information, then why did the US ever agree to this arrangement? By the very nature of intelligence work, most of us will never know what information is being shared, so we can’t ever answer this question. But we can infer from the fact that this organization exists that there is **some** information Canada holds, that the US wants, and wants strongly enough to trade for it. We’re just here hoping that Canada knows how to leverage that to our best advantage. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canada-quit-the-five-eyes/1013323/27 "2025-01-24T16:11:22Z")
There’s also things other than intelligence worth trading for. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canada-quit-the-five-eyes/1013323/28 "2025-01-24T16:17:20Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Why should Canada be sharing national security intel with the United States, the country that now poses the greatest threat to our national security and sovereignty ? Probably because the United States is _not_ the greatest threat to Canada’s national security or sovereignty, Trumpian bluster aside. In fact, Canada’s relationship with and geographic proximity to the United States is the reason why there really _are no_ credible threats to Canada’s sovereignty or national securit. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canada-quit-the-five-eyes/1013323/29 "2025-01-24T16:20:44Z")
> [@Kropotkin](#): > > My point is, would Canadian intelligence services observe instructions to freeze out the US? Or would their longstanding connections, personal and professional, and their professional judgement, push them to circumvent the intentions of the government? The cases you cited may have been slimy, but did not involve giving intel to a country whose head of state is openly suggesting, in so many words, invading Canada. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canada-quit-the-five-eyes/1013323/30 "2025-01-24T16:24:42Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > I think the US now is a hostile nation. If a bit of bluster from Trump renders America a “hostile nation” in your eyes, you must consider half the world “hostile” to Canada, yes? > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > The president has adopted a policy of forcibly annexing Canada. No, he hasn’t. > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Lots of people in the 1930s thought that Herr Hitler was just blathering when he spoke of _lebensraum_. I’ve never heard of this. Certainly people thought that if they gave Hitler X or Y he might stop and a world war could be avoided. I haven’t heard the claim that people thought he wasn’t serious about expanding Germany, though. > [@RickJay](#): > > Trump ordering an invasion is absolutely a possibility - Trump couldn’t build a wall on the Mexican border; I highly doubt he’d manage an invasion, either. > [@RitterSport](#): > > Let’s also remember that Trump wants to install a Russian asset as the Director of National Intelligence, so if you think the administration was leaky last time, hold onto your hat! This, on the other hand, is a very, VERY valid concern. Trump’s leaky lips have very likely killed intelligence personnel, both American and allied. If they haven’t, it is only through luck, and multiple operations were undoubtedly scuttled after he ran his dumb mouth. ---
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canada-quit-the-five-eyes/1013323/31 "2025-01-24T16:46:43Z")
They did rise, if on the margins, questions of sovereignty, though. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canada-quit-the-five-eyes/1013323/32 "2025-01-24T17:23:28Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > If a bit of bluster from Trump renders America a “hostile nation” in your eyes, you must consider half the world “hostile” to Canada, yes? Can you name other countries whose head of state is openly discussing the annexation of Canada? ---
**Author:** ![Loggins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/74df32/32.png) [@Loggins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loggins)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canada-quit-the-five-eyes/1013323/33 "2025-01-24T17:27:50Z")
Canada should look to UK, the EU and Scandinavia for intelligence information. Drop usa, they are not to be trusted. Let them go alone. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canada-quit-the-five-eyes/1013323/34 "2025-01-24T17:45:40Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Probably because the United States is _not_ the greatest threat to Canada’s national security or sovereignty, Trumpian bluster aside. Outside of the possibility of global nuclear war, the United States is pretty much the _only_ threat to Canada’s national security and sovereignty, and that has been true for the entirety of Canada’s existence as a sovereign nation. No other nation has the capability of posing a non-laughable threat of invasion, because of the three little things known as the Atlantic, Pacific, and Arctic Oceans. Thankfully, for most of that time the threat has been completely negligible because the interests of our two nations are generally aligned, and the US has historically been a reliable partner in international agreements. However, under Trump the US is not a reliable partner (note how the threatened tariffs directly violate the USMCA trade agreement that Trump himself negotiated), and it is clear from Trump’s bluster that he believes our national interests are not aligned. That this is because of his mistaken belief that international trade is a zero-sum game is immaterial to the fact that Trump is demonstrably antagonistic towards Canada. While the inertia of over a century of very close and friendly relations will mean that large shifts in the US’ stance towards Canada will take time, given the overtly fascist tendencies of the second Trump regime it is Pollyannaish to not consider seriously the possibility of an adversarial relationship. In complete seriousness, if in a year or so it appears that the Trump regime will succeed in ending the American experiment in democracy, Canada should start quietly violating the NPT. I hope to the gods it doesn’t come to that, and that the institutions of American governance actually start standing up for themselves, but right at this moment it doesn’t look terribly promising. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canada-quit-the-five-eyes/1013323/35 "2025-01-24T18:01:40Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > No other nation has the capability of posing a non-laughable threat of invasion, because of the three little things known as the Atlantic, Pacific, and Arctic Oceans. That’s only true if the US Navy is patrolling those waters for Canada. If the US decided to turn a blind eye, Russia or China could certainly pose existential threats to Canada. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canada-quit-the-five-eyes/1013323/36 "2025-01-24T18:24:22Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Why should Canada be sharing national security intel with the United States, the country that now poses the greatest threat to our national security and sovereignty ? This isn’t just applicable to Canada, it’s applicable to all US allies whom we share intelligence with. I imagine each and every one of them will decide what intelligence they’re willing to share with an unreliable ally. I don’t know if Canada should quit the Five Eyes, but I don’t expect them to be as forthright with information as they might have been in the past. Especially with information that puts their sources at risk. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canada-quit-the-five-eyes/1013323/37 "2025-01-24T18:31:35Z")
Those are both laughable. Neither of them have the sealift and force projection capacity to do more than harass Canada. Russia can’t even defeat Ukraine, where it has no appreciable logistical obstacles to supplying its invasion force. China could conceivably build a blue-water navy that would pose an existential threat to Canada, but they certainly don’t have one now. Outside of nuclear war, the only realistic military threat to Canada, both historically and for the foreseeable future, comes from the south. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canada-quit-the-five-eyes/1013323/38 "2025-01-24T20:01:58Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Those are both laughable. Neither of them have the sealift and force projection capacity to do more than harass Canada. Not to mention, Canada has allies other than the US. The British and French navies could put paid to any Russians trying to land troops in Halifax. The Pacific would be harder, but even there, we have Australia and New Zealand on our side, along with whatever British and French ships might be there. Plus, Canada’s navy isn’t huge, but it is pretty modern, and the amount of coast we actually would have to defend isn’t all that great. Looking at a map, our coastline is _huge_, but most of that is remote empty space. While Russia might be able to put some troops ashore along the Arctic Ocean coast, or the coast of Labrador or northern BC, they’d have a long, _long_ way to drive before they reached anything really substantive in terms of “invading” Canada. They’ll own a few isolated towns, maybe, but the vast bulk of Canada’s population and industry will be out of their reach. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canada-quit-the-five-eyes/1013323/39 "2025-01-24T20:20:38Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Why should Canada be sharing national security intel with the United States, the country that now poses the greatest threat to our national security and sovereignty ? Good point. Altho I do not think Canada is actually gonna be invaded, trump plays fast and loose with national security documents, etc. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canada-quit-the-five-eyes/1013323/40 "2025-01-24T21:10:43Z")
I think his game plan is to just keep churning waters, insulting Canada, demeaning our nation in the hope of eventually producing any kind of conflict or skirmish. If he can forge a pro US cadre, then protests, complete with shoving match instigated by local loyalists, he’s got all he needs to act. Who’s gonna stop him? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canada-quit-the-five-eyes/1013323.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canada-quit-the-five-eyes/1013323.md?page=3)