# Should Canadians be "treated like criminals" at the US border? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 31, 2002, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canadians-be-treated-like-criminals-at-the-us-border/134704 "2002-10-31T14:14:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2002, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canadians-be-treated-like-criminals-at-the-us-border/134704/41 "2002-11-04T12:54:08Z")
> [@](#): > > how many Islamic terrorists hold Canadian passports? Apparently, enough to make them dangerous. > [@](#): > > And just for the record, those were COUNTER ATTACKS in New York and Washington. It’s time you realized you fired the first shots long ago. We spend little on self defense in Canada BECAUSE WE DON’T PISS EVERYONE OFF! Right. You spend so little on defrense because you’re an isolated, if big, country mooching off of Uncle Sam’s military largesse. Counter-Attacks? Maybe if terrorists, like Bin Laden , like to consider themselves the guardians of some great “Islamic People”. Tell me though, where did the US army go around butchering civilians without cause? Or perhaps you believe that defending Saudi Arabia against Saddam’s army constitutes a gross violation of human decency? Or that trying to keep the Israelis from being annihilated is somehow a monstrous decision? [devil]Since you enjoy watching us small Americans “scurry around”, perhaps you would not mind if we crushed you pathetic country like the jelly-filled sandwich it is, and watched a few Canadians scurry around, starving as we genocide all the pathetic remnants of your roadkill civilization? [/devil] :wally > [@](#): > > I can only characterise the general reaction of the US as hysterical. The terrorist threat is real and needs a well thought out security response. What we got was a series of hastily conceived lunges, like the so-called “Patriot Act” which are costly, mostly ineffective, and lead to a scepticism regarding any effective conterterrism measures that might be developed in the future. This is not incorrect. However, the wheels of democracy turn slowly. And since every possible security measure is bound to piss off some important group (whether religious, commercial, or whatnot), they turn slower. As an interim system , this could be better done, but hardly, I think, is unreasonable. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2002, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canadians-be-treated-like-criminals-at-the-us-border/134704/42 "2002-11-04T13:56:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by smiling bandit \* > \*\*Right. You spend so little on defrense because you’re an isolated, if big, country mooching off of Uncle Sam’s military largesse. \*\* In what way is Canada “mooching” off American defense spending? The United States has never been asked to defend Canada; it has never had to send in troops to quell Canadian rebels; it has never had to invade Canada. (I’m not counting the War of 1812, which happened before Canada was Canada.) There is, let’s be honest, no defense threat to Canada that American military power is deterring that could be deterred by more Canadian spending if the US spent less. The USA has never, that I can see, had to spend a single dime on defense that it would not have spent had Canada spent more. Were Canada to spent an equivalent amount of money on its own defense, the result in terms of American needs and spending would be, by my calculations, exactly zip. If Canada goes from one understrength division to two full strength divisions, will this really affect the size and needs of the U.S. Army? If Canada buys a flotilla of nuclear submarines, do you really think the U.S. Navy will have less to do? If Canada buys new tanks, will the generals at the Pentagon say “Well, gosh, we can mothball some tanks now, the Canadians are here to save us!” Even spending as much as the U.S. does in terms of relative GDP, the Canadian capability for defense would be relatively miniscule - maybe one fifteenth the conventional strength, and that’s pushing it. Canada has 11% the population, maybe 9% the money, and the economies of scale aren’t as good. Saying Canada mooches off the U.S. for defense is like saying Rhode Island mooches off the rest of the U.S. The notion that other countries “mooch” off American defense spending is nonsense - ignorant, chauvinist nonsense. American defense spending is almost entirely spent in order to further American strategic interests and fulfill American political concerns. Some countries that the U.S. has actively spent money to defend have a case for being moochers - Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, obviously, and Israel indirectly. Canada? Puh-lease. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2002, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canadians-be-treated-like-criminals-at-the-us-border/134704/43 "2002-11-04T14:20:22Z")
SImple: Canada does not have to defend itself militarily because we have to do it for them. It isn’t simply a threat now, but an analysis of threats in the past and future. Canada knows America will not tolerate a hostile power attacking and invading Canada. Its not a zero-sum game, of course, but that is irrelevant. Canada does not _need_ to spend so much ondefense because the US will be there to defend them. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2002, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canadians-be-treated-like-criminals-at-the-us-border/134704/44 "2002-11-04T15:02:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by smiling bandit \* > **SImple: Canada does not have to defend itself militarily because we have to do it for them.** And when did the United States have to defend Canada? Or in other words… Cite? > [@](#): > > It isn’t simply a threat now, but an analysis of threats in the past and future. Canada knows America will not tolerate a hostile power attacking and invading Canada. Oh, I see; the U.S. isn’t spending a dime on it now, but it might have to in the future if some hypothetical enemy that doesn’t exist yet launches an attack that hasn’t happened yet. Christ. I guess we could say you’re mooching off me for your rent. I admit I’m not paying your rent now, but hey, you never know what will happen in the future. You still have not explained where this “mooching” has taken place. Has the U.S., in fact, spent so much as a penny it would not have spent if Canada had spent more? Yes or no? If yes, can you please show us what spending that is? If no, where’s the mooching, then? ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2002, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canadians-be-treated-like-criminals-at-the-us-border/134704/45 "2002-11-04T15:22:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RickJay \* > \*\*The U.S. cannot technically be faulted for deporting a Syrian citizen to Syria - even if he is also a citizen of another country. He has access to Canadian counsel in Syria, which he should. \*\* While I unfortunately cannot find the article I read in the Gazette a few days ago, it stated clearly that proper procedure would have been to deport him to Switzerland, the country he was last in. Everyone seems to think it would have been completely understandable to deport him to Canada, as it was the country of his citizenship, close and a close ally of the US. As well, he was wanted in Syria for dodging compulary military service, which is why he is now in jail. His “terrorist connection” is that he is friends with someone the RCMP questioned in Ottawa, and found to be not involved. Please see the Pit thread I started for more information on him. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2002, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canadians-be-treated-like-criminals-at-the-us-border/134704/46 "2002-11-04T15:23:38Z")
I am an American, and activities such as these do not increase my security; they increase my insecurity. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2002, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canadians-be-treated-like-criminals-at-the-us-border/134704/47 "2002-11-04T16:32:37Z")
QUOTE]\*Originally posted by Kalt \* \> Darkie Arabs eh? That is, it fits the simplistic, ignorant and ill-informed stereotypes you hold. Just because something is a stereotype doesn’t mean it’s untrue. Male “darkie arabs” are the ones who perpetrated 9/11 and they’re the ones who comprise al queda, hamas, etc. [/quote] I get a headache constantly pointing simple goddamned facts out, but in the outside hope of alleviate chronic ignorance and stupidity: (a) al-Q **aed** da: Made up of Islamic radicals from the extreme Salafiste wing includes folks from throughout the region. As I have pointed out **ad nauseum** this covers folks from everywhere from the Caucasus region (light skinned certainly), Turkey (again light skinned) and the Balkans (again light skinned), North Africa (all over the phenotype map from Massaouie to someone like the falsely –per British dec.- accused Lotfi Raissi see [http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/reports/international/lotfi\_raissi.shtml](http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/reports/international/lotfi_raissi.shtml) who I am sure all rational observers will agree does not very well fit the “darkie Arab” stereotype. Indeed few North Africans have “Arab” looks.) to of course the Middle East. And in the Middle East we have Syria, Lebanon, Palestine with folks with features really no diff than Greeks and Italians. Let’s not even start to think about sub-Continentals (India versus Pakistan) or Asians (ooh let us play tell the difference btw a Thai Bhuddist and a Thai Muslim, or a Malay Muslim and an Indonesian Hindu etc. etc.) Or Muslim emigrants to Latin America (Lebanese diapsora runs far and wide) (b) Hamas: (the Palestinian group), see above. The stereotype is worse than useless, it is positively deceptive. Now, the Saudis who largely made up the team for the 11 September attacks [http://www.dallasnews.com/specialreports/2001/attack/hijackphoto.html](http://www.dallasnews.com/specialreports/2001/attack/hijackphoto.html) of course rather better fit the stereotype, as **they’re from the Arab homeland** so to speak. Even then, I submit that several of them dressed as Western businessmen would attract no attention. Esp. if they changed their names and/or obtained western name identity documents. > [@](#): > > There is not a single logical reason not to profile such people when they try to come into this country. Note, i’m not advocating kicking them all out or arresting them at the border and sticking them in an internment camp. Just hightened inspection/background check when a darkie arab male tries to come into the country. Contra your ignorant and baseless assertion, when one has something approaching a glimmer of knowledge concerning the region and the vast array of phenotypes one might expect to encounter inside the radical organizations and further a sense of how much the Mediterranean basin “Arabs” look just like Italians and Greeks and Spaniards, one can think of numerous excellent reasons why the stereotype applied as profiling will prove positively counter-productive. > [@](#): > > Do you think it’s unfair to only profile the males? Wanna defend sexual equality too? Straw man. Please don’t waste my time with stupid and obvious straw men. > [@](#): > > \>Now what does one do about the non-darkies? You know, the > \>the large number of Arabs and Muslims who are light-skinned. > > They should be profiled as well. I’m not saying “only dark skinned muslim-looking men get profiled” … I’m saying _as a matter of necessity_, all dark skinned muslim-looking men should be profiled. How does one go about “profiling” light skinned Muslims? Salif Keita. Muslim name? Feras Qumsayah? Muslim name. Omar Mazi, Muslim name? Hint two of them are not. How the fuck is one to profile Muslims, and why bother profiling Muslims when a nice little name change and identity switch or origin in a country like France, Germany or Nederlands … or Great Britain is quite enough to slip the crude profile. > [@](#): > > And by “profiled” I mean nothing more than being checked out more thoroughly than the average person attempting to enter the US. Efficiency. Of course, it is typically the darker-skinned (not sure why) muslim men (not women) who terrorist organizations are comprised of. Waste of time. Waste. > [@](#): > > \>And the converts? Lindh, Padillo, Reid. > > Reid was a dark-skinned muslim man; he would have been profiled. Well my brilliant analyst, how the FUCK are you going to profile a man of White British-Black Jamaican heritage, born in Britain with a passport in the name of REID? What magical sign, pray tell, indicates to the profiling official that Mr. Reid is a “Muslim” (leaving aside the fact he was an incompetent unbathed idiot.) > [@](#): > > It’s not solely a question of religion. Just asking them “what is your religion?” when they come into the country is futile, if they know answering “muslim” will cause the gov’t to watch them, they’ll just says “christian.” Only visual profiles are worthwhile. Yes, some will always get by because no profiling system can be 100% effective, but that’s not a reason for not employing one. Oooh give the boy a banana. Only visual profiles are worthwhile! What a fucking clever idea, except what do we do about Mr. Reid? About Mr. Padilla? About Mr. Raissi (abstracting away from the issue of his apparent innocence.) So, we start stopping all the dark men (darker than who pray tell?) > [@](#): > > \>What fucking use is a terror profile that wastes resources? We > \>all saw how brilliant profiling succeeded with our whack-job > \>serial killer/criminals in the sniper incident. Yeah, that “saved” > \>resources. > > Just because it is not 100% effective doesn’t mean it is wasting resources, that’s completely fallacious. Doing an extended background check on every “darkie muslim” male who tries to enter the US is the single easiest, most efficient thing we can do to curb islamic terrorism in the US. Completely fallacious. What is completely fallacious is your continued fantasy that somehow one can visually ID “Muslims” and that this is an efficient response. Only but utter ignorance of the vast array of phenotypes in the region and a complete ignorance of the breadth of Islam in terms of covering the globe can you think that profiling Muslims is efficient – any more than profiling Xians for Xs’ sake. Both begin with an utterly fallacious idea that adherents to the religion An intelligent “profile” of some utility would be to maintain a database on males of a certain age range who have or who travel to certain regions. Even then it should be used cautiously and in an aware manner as not to over emphasize its efficacy. Not because of the profiling of the innocent but rather the waste of resources and the false sense of security, which in my mind is the best way for security authorities to go wrong and allow al-Qaeda people who do not fit this simplistic and idiotic stereotype of “Muslim radical”’s looks. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2002, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canadians-be-treated-like-criminals-at-the-us-border/134704/48 "2002-11-04T16:36:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Collounsbury \* > (a) al-Q **aed** da: I am humbled by Gaudere’s law. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2002, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canadians-be-treated-like-criminals-at-the-us-border/134704/49 "2002-11-04T20:58:38Z")
Collounsbury, strictly speaking, I don’t think you can misspell an Arabic name in English. It’s all phonetic guesswork. Case in point: Quaddafy/Quaddafi/Khadafy/Qaddafi/etc. In any case, I cannot believe anyone can take this arbitrary, politicized screening process seriously. It’s a complete and absolute joke, and the punchline is this: 1. It’s based on “country of origin.” 2. It does not include Saudi Arabia, the country of origin of most of the 9/11 terrorists. Nobody can seriously, with a straight face, defend such a ludicrous policy. It defies explanation. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canadians-be-treated-like-criminals-at-the-us-border/134704/50 "2002-11-05T13:29:57Z")
smiling bandit, care to tell us just which country Canada has to defend itself against? Greenland/Denmark is our neighbour, but has shown no interest in us. France is our neighbour, but has shown no interest in us aside from a rather rude comment by deGaulle in 1967 and the bombing of a Canadian Greenpeace vessel. Russia is our neighbour across the ice cap, but has shown no interest in us other than as an umbrella for the USA. The USA is our neighbour, and aside from occasionally snatching people, has shown no interest in us. Is any nation interested in invading Canada? No. So it seems to me that Canada is meeting its defensive needs. No, wait a minute, Canada does have an active border dispute. Michais Island, inhabited by nine-hundred atlantic puffins and my Uncle Gordie. The only reasons Gordie is there is to assert Canadian soverignity over the island against the American claim to it. Occasionally Americans visit in attempt to assert the American claim to the island. Geordie is Canadian Navy (retired), so he is well trained to deal with these incursions. He invites the Americans into his lighthouse for tea. So, smiling bandit, unless you can prove that my uncle Gordie needs more tea to defend us against the only country that actively threatens our sovereignity, you’d best rethink what you have posted. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canadians-be-treated-like-criminals-at-the-us-border/134704/51 "2002-11-05T13:49:58Z")
Offering TEA to Americans? The ruthless bastard. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canadians-be-treated-like-criminals-at-the-us-border/134704/52 "2002-11-05T13:55:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Muffin \* > \*\*smiling bandit, care to tell us just which country Canada has to defend itself against? Greenland/Denmark is our neighbour, but has shown no interest in us. France is our neighbour, but has shown no interest in us aside from a rather rude comment by deGaulle in 1967 and the bombing of a Canadian Greenpeace vessel. \*\* _Rainbow Warrior_ bore no national flag, but it was not a Canadian-registered vessel in any case. The ship was originally constructed in the UK. It had no connection to Canada. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canadians-be-treated-like-criminals-at-the-us-border/134704/53 "2002-11-05T14:06:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Muffin \* > **Occasionally Americans visit in attempt to assert the American claim to the island. Geordie is Canadian Navy (retired), so he is well trained to deal with these incursions. He invites the Americans into his lighthouse for tea.** And while we’re on the subject, the reason most, if not all, of those Americans are visiting Machias Seal Island to see the puffins. It’s a popular birding and tourist site with regular tours from both the U.S. and Canada. Canada’s stated reason for having wardens there is to keep the number of visitors down so the birds’ habitat isn’t overly disturbed. I guess “I’m sticking up for Canadian sovereignty” is a better story than “I’m looking out for the puffins,” though. ’ [Here](http://www.birdingamerica.com/Maine/machias.htm) are some pictures of American bird watchers taking a tour on Machias. [Here](http://www.scholtz.org/bill/nature/MachiasSealIsland/) is anoher set of pictures, with more good bird photos. ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canadians-be-treated-like-criminals-at-the-us-border/134704/54 "2002-11-05T15:12:02Z")
Okay, aside from the puffins, go look again at my earlier post. The INS is on a witch hunt, and they’re going around with blinkers on. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canadians-be-treated-like-criminals-at-the-us-border/134704/55 "2002-11-05T15:56:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RickJay \* > Collounsbury, strictly speaking, I don’t think you can misspell an Arabic name in English. It’s all phonetic guesswork. Case in point: Quaddafy/Quaddafi/Khadafy/Qaddafi/etc. True, very true. I do object to the **u** after the **Q** when transliterating since it leads people to rather **more** mispronounce the word. E.g. Quaddafy gets then pronounced “Qwaa” rather like “Kwick” (as in quick). It is an overcorrection for an inapplicable rule. And it just irritates me. I should not it is not guesswork per se, but rather what standard one uses. Some names get quite bollixed up because of the differences btw dialectal pronunciation and standard pronunciation. Qadhdhafi is a perfect case in point, containing the letters Qaf and dha (pron. like the “th” in “the”) which get changed in dialect (and misheard by non-Arabic speakers). Qaf of course is the deep in the throat K in Arabic, which in many bedouine dialects turns to a **G**. Further, the **dh** is transformed in most dialects either into a plain \*\*d[/d] or a **z**. In Libya a common pron. is Gaddafi. So if one is transliterating from dialect… but the formal standard is Qadhdhafi. BTW our friend is withdrawing from the Arab league. Pity you all don’t read Arabic, his discourse contains his usual … bizarre brilliance (in amusing me at least). I love the guy, I really do. One can’t deny he has style. Bizarre, misplaced and almost freakish style, but style. > [@](#): > > In any case, I cannot believe anyone can take this arbitrary, politicized screening process seriously. It’s a complete and absolute joke, and the punchline is this: > > 1. It’s based on “country of origin.” > 2. It does not include Saudi Arabia, the country of origin of most of the 9/11 terrorists. > > Nobody can seriously, with a straight face, defend such a ludicrous policy. It defies explanation. Security blanket to make the frightened feel better. Or just plain ignorance. Oh btw the only Muslim name in my list in the prior post was Salif Keita (famous singer from Mali). The other two are Xians. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canadians-be-treated-like-criminals-at-the-us-border/134704/56 "2002-11-05T16:16:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Collounsbury \* > \*\* > BTW our friend is withdrawing from the Arab league. Pity you all don’t read Arabic, his discourse contains his usual … bizarre brilliance (in amusing me at least). I love the guy, I really do. One can’t deny he has style. Bizarre, misplaced and almost freakish style, but style. > > \*\* [hijack] Does anyone else remember the very old Saturday Night Live skit showing our above-mentioned stylish dude as the star of a fashion video? He looked quite the stud! ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canadians-be-treated-like-criminals-at-the-us-border/134704/57 "2002-11-05T20:08:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eva Luna \* > \*\* > > [hijack] > > Does anyone else remember the very old Saturday Night Live skit showing our above-mentioned stylish dude as the star of a fashion video? He looked quite the stud! \*\* Ha. You’ve seen nothing until you see Libyan TV. I do warn you though, Libyan TV is best viewed after ingested some hallucinagenic substances. It is singularly the wierdest programing I have ever seen. Long musical sequences of no particular subject (other than showing off The Guide visiting places, in style or showing sweeping vistas - followed by more shots, to music of the Guide etc.) It’s so delightfully wierd I have to question the sanity of the programmers. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2002, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canadians-be-treated-like-criminals-at-the-us-border/134704/58 "2002-11-06T04:49:15Z")
Well, as an American Jewish feminist with a big mouth and a penchant for balbbling about human rights issues, I doubt I’ll be viewing any Libyan TV anytime soon, unless someone wants to send me a VHS cassette… ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2002, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canadians-be-treated-like-criminals-at-the-us-border/134704/59 "2002-11-06T06:01:08Z")
Thanks, RickJay, I had confused Greenpeace’s origins with the Rainbow Warrior’s registration. As far as the tea party goes, Uncle Gordie is on Machias for sovergnity, not wildlife, although there are wildlife officers there in the summer. When Canada went over to automatic lighthouses, Gordie’s remained staffed solely to uphold soverignty. He does a bit of meteorological work there, but for the most part simply enjoys the tranquility. > [@](#): > > [Secondly, it has been clearly demonstrated in Canada and around the world that modern technology allows for the highly reliable operation of lighthouse aids to navigation without any requirement for a lightkeeper. > > The results of the consultations are being used in the development of the implementation plan for 69 of the 70 remaining staffed lightstations on Canada’s East and West Coasts. The Minister of Transport, on March 30, 1995, decided that Machias Seal Island, New Brunswick, will remain staffed for sovereignty reasons.]([http://www.sen.parl.gc.ca/pcarney/english/Archives/LightReport/LR\_ministers\_letter.htm](http://www.sen.parl.gc.ca/pcarney/english/Archives/LightReport/LR_ministers_letter.htm)) Gordie says there’s a fellow from Maine who’s family has a historical connection with the island who comes out every year to hold a flag planting ceremony as a symbol of American sovereignty. After the ceremony, Gordie inivites him in for tea, and they spend the rest of the day chatting. Gordie and my mom’s family are from St. Stephen, New Brunswick, where back in the War of 1812, [the folks from St. Stephen gave gunpower to the folks from Calais, Maine, to assist them with their fourth of July celebrations](http://www.town.ststephen.nb.ca/ourtown/history.htm). No one on either side was particularly interested in shooting each other. I quite like my family’s approach to border disputes. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2002, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canadians-be-treated-like-criminals-at-the-us-border/134704/60 "2002-11-06T14:10:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Muffin \* > \*\*I quite like my family’s approach to border disputes. \*\* So do I. Let’s be honest; we probably couldn’t have a better neighbour. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-canadians-be-treated-like-criminals-at-the-us-border/134704.md?page=2)