# Should Catholics Really Vote Republican? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 26, 2011, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-catholics-really-vote-republican/579813 "2011-04-26T19:31:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-catholics-really-vote-republican/579813/21 "2011-04-27T17:04:38Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > **Alan Smithee** , thanks for the detailed explanation. But I have one question, about: > > From a Catholic point of view, couldn’t someone believe abortion is acceptable because they disagree on the fact that the fetus is an innocent person? That is, is “a fetus is a person” a fact that is open to disagreement, or is it a matter of doctrine? No. “A fetus is a person” is a matter of Catholic doctrine and has been for quite a while now. That doesn’t mean you’re not going to find individual Catholics who disagree, but the church hierarchy isn’t going to say, “Oh, you don’t think the fetus is a person? Go ahead and have an abortion, then.” ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-catholics-really-vote-republican/579813/22 "2011-04-27T17:45:39Z")
> [@2ply](#): > > Doesn’t the Catholic vote lean towards the Democratic Party? That was the case when FDR’s New Deal Coalition was at its fullest strength (roughly the period from 1932 to 1964). That was mainly due to the party’s stance on social issues (abortion wasn’t on the political radar at that time), labor (many Catholics were working class union members), and the fact Republicans at that time tended to congregate in clubs that were limited to people who were white, Anglo-Saxon, and Protestant (and usually rich). It should be noted this was not the case everywhere in the U.S. In the South, the Democrats weren’t that friendly (to say the least) to anyone who was both Catholic and a union member while in the northeast, there were Republicans whose voting records were nearly indistinguishable from the most liberal Democrat. All this changed starting in 1968. The Republicans began using wedge issues like race, crime, and (later) abortion to strip away blocks of traditional Democratic voters like Catholics. At the same time, many children of working class Catholic voters were advancing up the income and class ladder and became more amenable to the Republicans’ pro-business and (during the Cold War) anti-Communist stance. Of course, I’m simplifying things here but that should give you a general ideal on why the Catholic vote is not as strongly Democratic as it was in years past. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-catholics-really-vote-republican/579813/23 "2011-04-27T19:45:46Z")
Quoth **Paranoid Randroid** : > [@](#): > > It’s true that abortion rates decreased somewhat steadily over Clinton’s presidency (year by year 25.2, 24.0, 22.8, 22.8, 22.3, 22.0, 21.9, 21.3, rate per 1000 women of child bearing age) but remained more constant during most of Bush II’s (20.9, 20.5, 21.0, 19.7, 19.4, 19.9, 19.5, 19.6). Cite. But I don’t necessarily think that means anything. That’s mostly what I was referring to with my comment, but it’s somewhat off-topic for this thread, and I don’t really have the energy to debate the point in detail. That’s why I phrased it as “it can be argued that…”, rather than actually asserting the point myself. I’m not saying it’s a good (or bad) argument, but it is an argument I’ve heard from some Catholics for why they vote Democratic, which is relevant to this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-catholics-really-vote-republican/579813/24 "2011-04-27T22:15:02Z")
> [@mac9891](#): > > I have many Catholic friends who like to debate with me and always rail on how people need to vote Republican because of pro-life. Which I understand, but should Catholics be just as concerned with the poor and the lives lost there. Though I can’t speak for all Catholics only the ones I know but so many base their votes solely on this one issue. They don’t even take into account the many other polices that either party stand for. > My question to you are Catholics being hoodwinked into voting for a party because of the pro-life issue, a party that debate-ably goes against other Catholic views such as taking care of the poor and the elderly. As well as being a party that leans more towards fighting wars, which I thing Jesus would say turn the other cheek too. > > I’d like to hear your opinions. Sure if Jesus was alive today, he would line up with teh Democrats on most things but that abortion thing is a pretty big line item. If you really believe a fetus is a human life, its pretty hard to vote for the guy that would support it. I suppose what we need is a more vibrant pro-life faction of the Democratic party. It would give people who hold their noses as they vote Republican someone to vote for. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-catholics-really-vote-republican/579813/25 "2011-04-28T04:02:26Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > IANAC, but to expand on **Bricker** ’s point, the Catholic church teaches that is always wrong to set a goal of harming an innocent person. (The technical wording is that one may not “intend” to harm an innocent person.) One may set other goals that one knows will unfortunately harm innocent people, but causing harm to them can never be the part of the goal, no matter what. You can say, “If I blow up Dr. Evil’s lair, innocent people will be killed in the explosion, but it’ll save the world, so it can’t be helped.” You can NOT say, “If I kill this one innocent person (say, a baby who would cry and wake Dr. Evil’s minions) I will be able to destroy Dr. Evil’s lair and save the world with no one else getting hurt. Otherwise, everyone will die, so I’d better do it.” In the former case, innocent people dying is not part of your goal, even though you know it will happen if you act. In the latter case, killing an innocent person is part of your goal (even if it’s just an intermediate step to saving the world) and that is morally wrong no matter what according to Catholic doctrine. > > Since abortion, _by definition_ involves killing what the Catholic church believes is an innocent person, there is no way for abortion to be morally allowable in any situation, ever, no matter what. Not even to save the mother’s life. (Though if in saving the mother’s life, the fetus is _accidentally_ aborted, that’s allowable, even if you knew it would happen. God will know the difference and presumably so will the doctor doing it, even if no one else does.) Wow, that made the opposite of sense to me as a consequentialist. > [@Ludovic](#): > > That’s why I always vote for the Anti-Single Issue Voter party! I think I shall found such a party. Should be good for some laughs. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-catholics-really-vote-republican/579813/26 "2011-04-28T04:15:57Z")
As for the OP’s question, I really don’t think abortion is a good enough reason to vote GOP. I know there are plenty of pro-life Dem pols, not to mention those who are only “pro-choice” to get along with their friends who volunteer at PP, but really think abortion on demand is immoral. But my threshold for “pro-life” is perhaps a lot lower than a Catholic bishop’s. I remember when there were plenty of pro-choice Republicans. I suspect today that claiming to be a member of a “culture of life” is so\* de rigueur\* for GOP pols that they all say it whether or not it is true. So why are the Catholic bishops so intent on empowering a party that may just be giving lip service on this one issue, & is opposed to humanitarian social justice on other issues? I know GOP Protestants & irreligious who still mock any version of the welfare state as bleeding-heart Nancy-ism, and that’s even among people making \< $75K/yr. And evangelicals who live on less than half of that who think that redistribution is theft, & liberals are thieves. I imagine it may be worse among richer Pubbies. At this point, I don’t know what to think, but the rise of “moderate” socially liberal, environmentalist, integrationist, but pro-capitalist Southern Dems like Clinton & Gore may be part of the Dem’s demographics problem. If you’re a little social-conservative, a little racialist, not really Green, and working class, maybe both parties look equally iffy. As for the bishops, well, Der Trihs may be right. ☹ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-catholics-really-vote-republican/579813.md?page=1)