# Should Charles Manson be released? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 5, 2012, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-charles-manson-be-released/617920 "2012-04-05T16:24:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-charles-manson-be-released/617920/122 "2012-04-10T15:12:47Z")
> [@2sense](#): > > But what is the purpose of punishing a person forever? Sometimes there are not a lot of other options. What’s the greater wrong: locking someone up forever, or letting them go when they’re still dangerous and having them harm even more people? In the first case you’re restricting one person’s rights as a reaction to his behavior; in the other you could be ignoring the rights of someone (or multiple people) who hasn’t done anything wrong. > [@](#): > > Must that life be wasted even if the person eventually comes to sincerely regret their actions and are no longer a threat to others? That’s not Charles Manson. He’s taken every conceivable opportunity to remind people that he’s not sorry, still a threat, and not particularly interested in getting out of prison. In dealing with people who have actually changed and don’t appear to be a danger to anybody - some of Manson’s followers would qualify - I’m not opposed to releasing them. ---
**Author:** ![2sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e47774/32.png) [@2sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2sense)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-charles-manson-be-released/617920/123 "2012-04-10T19:08:47Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Because as you pointed out, “some things cannot be undone”. You murder somebody and all the repentance in the world won’t bring them back to life. ## Neither will punishing the murderer forever. So why do it? > [@Marley23](#): > > Sometimes there are not a lot of other options. What’s the greater wrong: locking someone up forever, or letting them go when they’re still dangerous and having them harm even more people? That is not punishing a person forever. If they are a danger to others then there is reason to keep them incarcerated. > [@](#): > > That’s not Charles Manson. He’s taken every conceivable opportunity to remind people that he’s not sorry, still a threat, and not particularly interested in getting out of prison. In dealing with people who have actually changed and don’t appear to be a danger to anybody - some of Manson’s followers would qualify - I’m not opposed to releasing them. We are in complete agreement here. I don’t understand why some don’t see him as a threat. He doesn’t have to be physically fit to conspire to kill. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-charles-manson-be-released/617920/124 "2012-04-10T19:39:13Z")
> [@2sense](#): > > Neither will punishing the murderer forever. So why do it? > > That is not punishing a person forever. If they are a danger to others then there is reason to keep them incarcerated. Nobody’s talking about punishing anyone “forever”. Manson won’t be in prison a thousand years from now. But punishing somebody for the rest of their life? Yes, that seems fair to me. I feel it’s just for the magnitude of the punishment to equal the magnitude of the crime. Some would argue that means murder should be a capital offense. But I’ll settle for imprisoning somebody for the rest of their life. The rest of their lives is what the murderer took from the victims. ---
**Author:** ![2sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e47774/32.png) [@2sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2sense)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-charles-manson-be-released/617920/125 "2012-04-10T20:30:02Z")
Must the magnitude of the punishment always fit the crime? Must a sicko torturer be slowly disemboweled and allowed to die of starvation and gangrene if he did that to his victim? How far is too far for us to go? Where is our moral superiority over these criminals? ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-charles-manson-be-released/617920/126 "2012-04-10T20:48:10Z")
> [@2sense](#): > > Neither will punishing the murderer forever. So why do it? 1. To prevent that particular person from ever doing the same thing. 2. To discourage other people from similar crimes in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-charles-manson-be-released/617920/127 "2012-04-10T22:45:09Z")
> [@2sense](#): > > Must the magnitude of the punishment always fit the crime? Must a sicko torturer be slowly disemboweled and allowed to die of starvation and gangrene if he did that to his victim? How far is too far for us to go? Where is our moral superiority over these criminals? Manson isn’t being punished. His incarceration isn’t about him, it’s about us. He’s dangerous and needs to be segregated from the rest of us so he doesn’t kill any more of us. Manson isn’t being tortured, he is treated exactly the same way any other dangerous prisoner is treated. If there was a way to cure him such that we were sure he’d never be dangerous again, then we could talk about letting him go. But he isn’t cured. So now what? Either we keep him locked up, or we put him to sleep like a rabid dog. We don’t shoot a rabid dog to punish the dog, and euthanizing Manson wouldn’t be punishment either. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-charles-manson-be-released/617920/128 "2012-04-11T00:06:58Z")
> [@2sense](#): > > Must the magnitude of the punishment always fit the crime? Must a sicko torturer be slowly disemboweled and allowed to die of starvation and gangrene if he did that to his victim? How far is too far for us to go? Where is our moral superiority over these criminals? Torturing somebody? Too far. Killing somebody? Maybe too far. Locking somebody up for the rest of their life? No, that’s acceptable. Just because the slippery slope is out there doesn’t mean you have to slide down it. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-charles-manson-be-released/617920/129 "2012-04-11T02:21:59Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > 1. To prevent that particular person from ever doing the same thing. > > 2. To discourage other people from similar crimes in the future. 1. Killing or caging him will have the same effect, I guess. 2. Crazy #2 doesn’t give a shit _what_ you do to Crazy #1. ---
**Author:** ![2sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e47774/32.png) [@2sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2sense)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-charles-manson-be-released/617920/130 "2012-04-11T05:37:36Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Manson isn’t being punished. His incarceration isn’t about him, it’s about us. He’s dangerous and needs to be segregated from the rest of us so he doesn’t kill any more of us. Manson isn’t being tortured, he is treated exactly the same way any other dangerous prisoner is treated. > > If there was a way to cure him such that we were sure he’d never be dangerous again, then we could talk about letting him go. But he isn’t cured. So now what? Either we keep him locked up, or we put him to sleep like a rabid dog. We don’t shoot a rabid dog to punish the dog, and euthanizing Manson wouldn’t be punishment either. ## I agree completely. I’m arguing with people who don’t think we should talk about freeing him no matter what. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Torturing somebody? Too far. > > Killing somebody? Maybe too far. > > Locking somebody up for the rest of their life? No, that’s acceptable. > > Just because the slippery slope is out there doesn’t mean you have to slide down it. ## For myself I see little difference between locking people up for the rest of their lives and killing them. In both cases we have taken away the rest of their lives. The main difference I can see is that with LWOP we can change our minds later whereas we can’t resurrect executed criminals. I believe that punishment should have a purpose other than to make us feel better. It should serve to reduce the crime rate. It seems to me that a person who would not risk a life sentence in prison would be equally deterred by a long prison sentence. How do you judge an appropriate punishment? > [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > 1. To prevent that particular person from ever doing the same thing. > > 2. To discourage other people from similar crimes in the future. 1. If inmates pose a particular danger to society then they should remain incarcerated. 2. Reasonable people can be deterred by reasonably long prison sentences. Unreasonable people cannot be deterred. 3. Hi Opal. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-charles-manson-be-released/617920/131 "2012-04-11T06:06:03Z")
> [@2sense](#): > > For myself I see little difference between locking people up for the rest of their lives and killing them. In both cases we have taken away the rest of their lives. The main difference I can see is that with LWOP we can change our minds later whereas we can’t resurrect executed criminals. I believe that punishment should have a purpose other than to make us feel better. It should serve to reduce the crime rate. It seems to me that a person who would not risk a life sentence in prison would be equally deterred by a long prison sentence. How do you judge an appropriate punishment? I’m a little surprised by you saying you see no significant difference between life imprisonment and execution. I think there’s a major difference. I’ll admit I have no moral certainty on the issue of capital punishment - I can’t honestly say I’m certain it’s always wrong or that it may sometimes be right. But the fact that I have these doubts cause me to feel that there isn’t enough moral clarity on the issue to go ahead with capital punishment. I wouldn’t want to execute anyone unless I was certain it was the right thing to do. Fortunately, there is a ready alternative - imprisonment. I feel it is possible to be morally certain that imprisonment is a just punishment (and I have a personally informed opinion on the subject). You have agreed that imprisonment is an acceptable punishment in some degree so the only issue on which we differ is how long it should be. On that issue, I think I’ve already answered your question here. I feel an appropriate punishment is one which is equal in magnitude to the crime and, for reasons I’ve given, I feel life imprisonment is the appropriate punishment for murder. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-charles-manson-be-released/617920/132 "2012-04-11T12:50:34Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Let me check. Are Gary Hinman, Leno and Rosemary LaBianco, Sharon Tate, Jay Sebring, Wojciech Frykowski, and Abigail Folger still dead? Yes? Then Charles Manson should still be in prison. > > When they’re alive again, we’ll consider letting him out. I came in to say essentially that. Thanks for looking up the names for me. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-charles-manson-be-released/617920/133 "2012-04-11T16:34:18Z")
Well, [he was a no-show at his hearing today](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47017512/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/#.T4WyYKtSS5I). ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-charles-manson-be-released/617920/134 "2012-04-11T17:44:56Z")
He’s not getting paroled. Surprise! ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-charles-manson-be-released/617920/135 "2012-04-11T23:06:27Z")
Gee, what a shame. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-charles-manson-be-released/617920/136 "2012-04-12T02:31:02Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Gee, what a shame. Life is full of disappointments. But this isn’t one of them. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-charles-manson-be-released/617920/137 "2012-04-13T06:17:03Z")
> [@2sense](#): > > Must the magnitude of the punishment always fit the crime? Must a sicko torturer be slowly disemboweled and allowed to die of starvation and gangrene if he did that to his victim? How far is too far for us to go? Where is our moral superiority over these criminals? Who says we have, or even claim moral superiority? Who says we want it? We have an established society, and we have rules that we have decided are workable. Laws that keep Manson are not to establish/showcase moral superiority. They are for sequestration, punishment, prevention, for the good of society. Moral superiority is only smoke and mirrors in this equation. Irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-charles-manson-be-released/617920/138 "2012-04-13T11:59:06Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > He’s not getting paroled. Surprise! That was close, but we dodged _that_ bullet, didn’t we? Next up: I don’t care what any of you say, _I_ think putting Christians in concentration camps is a bad idea! ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-charles-manson-be-released/617920/139 "2012-04-13T16:13:43Z")
Won’t Manson be up for parole again when he’s 92? We’re just going to have to sweat it out all over again. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-charles-manson-be-released/617920/140 "2012-04-13T16:49:45Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > That was close, but we dodged _that_ bullet, didn’t we? > > Next up: I don’t care what any of you say, _I_ think putting Christians in concentration camps is a bad idea! Normally I’d agree that the answer to a question like this is obvious. But as this thread indicates, there are people who think that Charles Manson should be paroled. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-charles-manson-be-released/617920/141 "2012-04-13T16:55:29Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Normally I’d agree that the answer to a question like this is obvious. But as this thread indicates, there are people who think that Charles Manson should be paroled. And as facts indicated, there was as much chance of that happening as there is of the U.S. opening Christian concentration camps, with approximately the same percentage of supporters for either in real life. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-charles-manson-be-released/617920.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-charles-manson-be-released/617920.md?page=8)