# Should Christians apologize for the Oslo killings? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 29, 2011, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-apologize-for-the-oslo-killings/590695 "2011-07-29T02:51:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-apologize-for-the-oslo-killings/590695/21 "2011-07-29T09:16:21Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Not really since they tend not to care if the person in quesition is actually a Muslim or actually a killer. Quite often it’s just a code for “brown people” or “poor people”. As for the _actual_ violent Muslims, they _are_ “mad killers”; but so are their Christian opposites. Each side is in the position of Nazis accusing Stalinists of brutality. Islam is evil, Christianity is evil, and there isn’t a great deal to choose from between the two. In my eyes what we have here is a bunch of evil and crazy people calling each other evil and crazy. This is a dodge. When you see a FOX News personality ranting about how Mosques should not be allowed to be built you are ok with that? When they support state laws that make Sharia law illegal you are ok with that? When they intimate that Muslims, via the previous examples and others, are violent and to be feared you are ok with that? They are painting with a broad brush. Certainly it is child’s play to find evil deeds committed in the name of any religion but I, personally, am not prepared to damn followers as a whole. I may think they are misguided but for the most part I do not think they are evil. I think some few are evil. I think some few pervert their religion for their own ends. I think it is sad that humans seem so susceptible to those people. However, I think the vast majority of people just want to get on with their life and don’t want to be bothered. You leave them alone, they will leave you alone. Yes some proselytize. Yes, some bomb themselves on others. Most however do not. > [@](#): > > That depends if they are some of the ones pushing the particular variant of Islam the attack was committed for; Islam isn’t at all unified. But I don’t actually care that much if the Christians _or_ Muslims who push violence apologize because I don’t believe they are really sorry. Another dodge. Doubtless some take glee in what happened. Would you say ALL followers of a religion need to apologize for one person’s actions? (You can extend this to any group…religious or otherwise) ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-apologize-for-the-oslo-killings/590695/22 "2011-07-29T10:11:37Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > This is a dodge. > Another dodge. > > Doubtless some take glee in what happened. > > Would you say ALL followers of a religion need to apologize for one person’s actions? (You can extend this to any group…religious or otherwise) I would say _you_ are the one dodging. Let’s replace it with ‘Nazism was evil’. Now, do you think ALL and every member of the Nazi party was Evil? All Germans were evil? Of course not. In the same way not ALL christians nor ALL muslims are evil. But their religions certainly are. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-apologize-for-the-oslo-killings/590695/23 "2011-07-29T10:42:38Z")
> [@colonial](#): > > Should atheists apologize for the mass murders of Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot? Only when you apologise because neither you nor Stalin were members of the South Carolina Knitting Club. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-apologize-for-the-oslo-killings/590695/24 "2011-07-29T15:57:46Z")
When it is shown that Breivik actually professed faith in God & Jesus rather than loyalty to some idea of “Christian European Civilization”, I will take the whole “Breivik is a Christian terrorist” notion seriously. Abortion-clinic bombers & assassins, Christian Identity whackos, Moms who kill their babies so they don’t grow up & go to Hell- yeah, and I do apologize for them. Breivik- nope, not a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-apologize-for-the-oslo-killings/590695/25 "2011-07-29T16:11:43Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Only when you apologise because neither you nor Stalin were members of the South Carolina Knitting Club. I am so going to steal this response! ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-apologize-for-the-oslo-killings/590695/26 "2011-07-29T16:14:27Z")
Neither Christians or Muslims who have preached brotherhood need to to apologize for anything - thought the people who did this, and want to build the Islamic center in NY don’t seem to be getting any credit for it. The Christians who burn Korans might think about it. Of course, as often happens, if anyone does apologize it will be the set of people who really don’t need to. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-apologize-for-the-oslo-killings/590695/27 "2011-07-29T16:23:21Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > When it is shown that Breivik actually professed faith in God & Jesus rather than loyalty to some idea of “Christian European Civilization”, I will take the whole “Breivik is a Christian terrorist” notion seriously. Abortion-clinic bombers & assassins, Christian Identity whackos, Moms who kill their babies so they don’t grow up & go to Hell- yeah, and I do apologize for them. Breivik- nope, not a bit. Okay, I’m curious. In what way do you see Breivik as different from Christian Identity whackos and the like? Because he hasn’t to your knowledge participated in the evangelical Christian ritual of the altar call? I don’t see why you should have to disavow any of the mentioned fringe radical members of your club, but I don’t understand how Breivik wouldn’t meet any bar that the others do. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-apologize-for-the-oslo-killings/590695/28 "2011-07-29T16:32:11Z")
I’ve been rather disgusted by the number of prominent and semi-prominent voices that have tried to say, in essence: 1. He’s not really a Christian, so don’t blame Christians or look for anything from them, and at the same time, 2. Breivik is awful and all, but he does have a point. Tolerance of Muslims (etc.) is a big problem. Should Christians apologize for the Oslo killings? No, not _apologize_. Sympathy and support for the victims and their country is always nice, though. Those voices that find parallels between their thinking and the terrorist’s might do well to take a step back and do some thinking about what they really believe. Disavowing responsibility and endorsing the killer’s cause in virtually the same breath is despicable. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-apologize-for-the-oslo-killings/590695/29 "2011-07-29T16:38:29Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > I would say _you_ are the one dodging. > > Let’s replace it with ‘Nazism was evil’. > > Now, do you think ALL and every member of the Nazi party was Evil? > All Germans were evil? > > Of course not. In the same way not ALL christians nor ALL muslims are evil. > But their religions certainly are. Is there a version of Nazism that taught kindness and acceptance? When I was growing up and sent to Sunday School my church never taught hatred and such. Rather it taught decency and tolerance and acceptance. Doubtless there are churches that teach their perverted version of the religion as well but all do not or even most. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-apologize-for-the-oslo-killings/590695/30 "2011-07-29T16:52:35Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > How is using Christianity (or Islam for that matter) to call for violence perverting it? “Go forth and kill the unbeliever/outsider/less powerful” has been official doctrine and practice more often than not for it. Christianity is a major religion in the first place because of its propensity toward extreme bloodthirstiness and ruthlessness; if anything the people trying to use it to promote peace and compassion are the ones trying to pervert it. Post proof or retract. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-apologize-for-the-oslo-killings/590695/31 "2011-07-29T17:02:11Z")
Short answer: NO Long answer: If there were hundreds of Christians churches with a significant part of the total active Christian population in attendance (at least 5%), that week in week out taught about killing people in the name of Christ, and the rest of us Christians said nothing, gave lame condemnation or taitly encouraged it, then; Hell yeah. The thing is that this scenario is false. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-apologize-for-the-oslo-killings/590695/32 "2011-07-29T17:09:19Z")
(Sorry for the double post) > [@colonial](#): > > Should atheists apologize for the mass murders of Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot? You didn’t get the official SDMB memo, did you? It says that atheists cannot do anyhting wrong because of their atheism,ever. > [@devilsknew](#): > > I don’t know? Has the pope or any other religous authorities ever apologized for the crusades? As Breivik is supposedly a modern day “Crusader”… > > I guess [John Paul came as close as his dogma could allow some 900 years after the fact](http://www.opednews.com/boyne_070304_pope.htm) (better late than never.) Has any Arab/Turk/Muslim leader apologised for capturing the Holy Land or Constantinople? Twowrong don’t make a right, but as you said John Paul apologised and that apology was received with contempt. It’s no use apologising to people who only want you to humiliate yourself and will still hate you. ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-apologize-for-the-oslo-killings/590695/33 "2011-07-29T17:56:24Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > No, because atheist isn’t a synonym for communist. Now, if they’d been espousing the virtues of communism, that’s another matter. The There is no reason for the analogy to be precise. The LRE is a murderous subset of Christians, the Communists I listed were a murderous subset of atheists. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-apologize-for-the-oslo-killings/590695/34 "2011-07-29T17:57:37Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > You didn’t get the official SDMB memo, did you? It says that atheists cannot do anyhting wrong because of their atheism,ever. There are an infinitely large number of irrational beliefs that an individual does not hold. It is no more reasonable to blame Stalin’s murderous regime on his failure to believe in God than it is to blame it on his failure to believe his dog was psychic and would kill him with its brain if he didn’t treat his subordinates nicely. ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-apologize-for-the-oslo-killings/590695/35 "2011-07-29T18:01:47Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Only when you apologise because neither you nor Stalin were members of the South Carolina Knitting Club. Oh, we gotta comic here. Too bad my reaction time is so slow, I don’t get it. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-apologize-for-the-oslo-killings/590695/36 "2011-07-29T19:22:50Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Post proof or retract. _\_ I’m living on a _continent_ that is majority Christian due to the mass slaughter of most of the original inhabitants and the forced conversion of many of the survivors, as well as the importation of slaves with in part the stated goal of converting them. If I was wrong, I _wouldn’t be here_. Nor would all the Christians surrounding me. Christianity got to where it is by climbing atop a mountain of the corpses of unbelievers. And then claiming to be all about peace and love. ---
**Author:** ![thelabdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@thelabdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelabdude)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-apologize-for-the-oslo-killings/590695/37 "2011-07-29T20:37:29Z")
When people do sick things in the name of Christ, Christians have the duty and right to speak out against it. I am sure I have condemned the Westboro Baptist Church’s antics here. My God doesn’t hate fags or any other sinners. While I can’t see how the Bible can be interrupted to permit homosexuality, I also fail to see it condoning hateful acts against homosexuals. After all, it isn’t the only sin. If a voice tells you to shoot an abortion doctor, better ask for some ID. I have found nowhere in the Bible that Jesus ever lifted up his hand against another man. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-apologize-for-the-oslo-killings/590695/38 "2011-07-29T20:40:46Z")
> [@thelabdude](#): > > While I can’t see how the Bible can be interrupted to permit homosexuality, _\_ “The Bible clearly state that homosexuals-” _\_ “Shut up!” ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-apologize-for-the-oslo-killings/590695/39 "2011-07-29T21:43:04Z")
Christians, no. Right-wing idiots… possibly. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-apologize-for-the-oslo-killings/590695/40 "2011-07-29T21:49:01Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > There are an infinitely large number of irrational beliefs that an individual does not hold. It is no more reasonable to blame Stalin’s murderous regime on his failure to believe in God than it is to blame it on his failure to believe his dog was psychic and would kill him with its brain if he didn’t treat his subordinates nicely. I was trying to make a joke based on classic Der Thris saying that nothing bad an atheist does can be atributed to his atheism and that all the bad things (and none of the good) a Chrsitian does is because he’s a Christian. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-apologize-for-the-oslo-killings/590695.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-apologize-for-the-oslo-killings/590695.md?page=3)