# Should Christians apologize for the Oslo killings? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 29, 2011, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-apologize-for-the-oslo-killings/590695 "2011-07-29T02:51:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![I\_Know\_Nothing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f04885/32.png) [@I\_Know\_Nothing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Know_Nothing)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-apologize-for-the-oslo-killings/590695/102 "2011-08-01T15:16:50Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Zoe View Post > So if you sell all that you own to feed the poor and live a simple life of sharing, you can’t be a Christian? > (snipped) > [@](#): > > Sure you can, but that’s not Marxism or Communism. Maybe not Communism, but definitely communism. From [dictionary.com](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/communism) "1. a theory or system of social organization based on the holding of all property in common, actual ownership being ascribed to the community as a whole or to the state. " ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-apologize-for-the-oslo-killings/590695/103 "2011-08-01T15:35:55Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Lest I be accused of playing the “No True Scotsman” game, let’s be clear about a few things. > > OBVIOUSLY, there have been many Christians over the past 2,000 years who have done horrible things in the name of Jesus. As a Catholic Christian, I HAVE to be ashamed of such people, and I have an obligation to denounce them. > > Even though I KNOW that the Catholic Church has never said or done anything t oencourage the bombing of abortion clinics, I also know that the people who do such thing are frequently acting according to what they THINK are Catholic principles. So, as much as I’d like to wash my hands of such people, I can’t. I don’t have the luxury of pretending those people have nothing to do with me or my church. If it turns out that hypothetical “Sean Fitzgerald” planted a bomb at a Planed Parenthood clinic and said the Rosary while waiting for the bomb to go off… I HAVE to apologize for him. I think he’s a HORRIBLe Catholic, an EVIL Catholic, but there’s no way around it, he IS a Catholic, and I need to apologize for him. > > If Breivik is a Christian, I have to feel SOME responsibility for him. If his beliefs and principles resemble mine i nthe least, I may HAVE to apologize for him. So, IS he a Christian in any real sense? Even if I think he’s perverted Christianity, do I recognize him as some kind of Christian for all that? > > No, I don’t think so. His own writings indicate pretty clearly that he doesn’t even believe in God and has NEVER been religiously observant. He uses “Christian” as a vague, all-purpose name for what he regards as Western culture. > > A guy who doesn’t believe in God, who dismisses traditional religion as “a crutch,” and doesn’t belong to any kind of Church is not a Christian in my book. I don’t have to disassociate myself from him because he was NEVER associated with me in the first place. Well said. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-apologize-for-the-oslo-killings/590695/104 "2011-08-01T15:39:56Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Is this really a meaningful statement though? If so, what does it mean? > > Are you saying that communism explicitly _excludes_ God, or just that it lacks a convenient empty slot for him? > > If the latter, is the same not true of many, many other things? Is there room in capitalism for God? (including God in capitalism just gives the result of ‘capitalism plus God’, as far as I can see) Shodan answered this well. To answer your question though, my point is that if you have God present, you won’t have communism. There is no room for him. It’s about “the state”, nothing else. Other than the death of millions, of course. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-apologize-for-the-oslo-killings/590695/105 "2011-08-01T15:44:32Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Thank you _ever_ so much for not equating atheism(which is nothing more than not believing in God) with Communism(believing in nothing but the State.) Your posts are becoming progressively less intelligible. Marx and Lenin thought that communism necessarily included atheism, especially anti-religious atheism based on hate of the sort espoused by several posters here on the SDMB. And the Communist leaders of the USSR (and Albania and China during the Cultural Revolution and so on) acted on that belief with anti-religious persecution and slaughter. Not simply because they were Communists, but because they believed that Communism necessarily included anti-religious hate. So all the attempts by atheists to deny that the mass slaughter of theists in the USSR and elsewhere had to do with atheism are simply “No True Scotsman” BS, as has been pointed out. I’m sorry this is so hard for you to understand. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-apologize-for-the-oslo-killings/590695/106 "2011-08-01T15:49:09Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Your posts are becoming progressively less intelligible. > > Marx and Lenin thought that communism necessarily included atheism, especially anti-religious atheism based on hate of the sort espoused by several posters here on the SDMB. And the Communist leaders of the USSR (and Albania and China during the Cultural Revolution and so on) acted on that belief with anti-religious persecution and slaughter. Not simply because they were Communists, but because they believed that Communism necessarily included anti-religious hate. > > So all the attempts by atheists to deny that the mass slaughter of theists in the USSR and elsewhere had to do with atheism are simply “No True Scotsman” BS, as has been pointed out. > > I’m sorry this is so hard for you to understand. > > Regards, > Shodan I think I understand. You make the point, over and over again, to not equate atheism with communism. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-apologize-for-the-oslo-killings/590695/107 "2011-08-01T15:52:42Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I think I understand. You make the point, over and over again, to not equate atheism with communism. I forgot my decoder ring. Can you explain plainly what the point is that you’re trying to make? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-apologize-for-the-oslo-killings/590695/108 "2011-08-01T16:12:04Z")
Acts of the Apostles: > [@](#): > > [sup]44[/sup] All the believers were together and had everything in common. [sup]45[/sup] They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-apologize-for-the-oslo-killings/590695/109 "2011-08-01T16:19:16Z")
How about this: instead of playing the game of “Your side did this” and “Yeah, well what about the time YOUR side did THAT,” let’s try another approach. Whenever an extremist of ANY ethnicity, of any religion, of any political affiliation, of any ideology, commits a terrible crime, the people who are part of his group(s) have to ask themselves honestly, “Do the things this guy believes really resemble what I believe? Are the things he’s saying anywhere close to things I know I’ve said myself? Are his causes my causes?” It doesn’t matter if we think the guilty party has twisted or perverted our beliefs. It doesn’t matter if we think he’s taken fine principles and pushed them too far. We have to ask honestly, “HOWEVER extreme and perverted this guy is, does he think/look/sound like me? And does that say anything damning about my beliefs?” SOMETIMES, as facts come out, we can let out a sigh of relief (“That guy who shot Congresswoman Giffords was a schizo, not a conservative!”). Sometimes we can’t. I’m NOT saying we bear responsibility for EVERYBODY on our side. Sometimes, bad people are connected to us by coincidence. As a Catholic, I feel no responsibility for the crimes of notorious Catholics like Al Capone, because Capone never made the slightest pretense to be driven by Catholic teachings. Torquemada, on the other hand, DID! I have to be ashamed of Torquemada- he committed his crimes BECAUSE of beliefs and principles I share. Even if it’s absolutely true that nothing Jesus said justified murder, the fact remains that people who sincerely consider thmeselves Christian DO commit murder in Christ’s name. It would be an unforgivable copout to resort to saying, “He’s not a TRUE Christian.” I don’t blame Al Gore or David Suzuki for the murders committed by the Unabomber, but Mr. Suzuki SHOULD be troubled by how similar Ted Kaczynski’s principles were to those of mainstream environmentalists. I don’t blame any of my Muslim co-workers for Major Hasan’s murderous spree at Fort Hood, but I sure HOPE they’re not too quick to say “That has nothing to do with Islam and only a racist would suggest it does.” Sorry, folks, but when a man commits murder while screaming “Allahu Akbar,” you CAN’T pretend he isn’t one of you. You have to look at the bad people acting in your name and ask yourselves if something has gone terribly wrong on your side. Sometimes we ALL have to ask that. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-apologize-for-the-oslo-killings/590695/110 "2011-08-01T17:09:23Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Marist-Leninist thought specifically excludes God, with all the talk about dialectical materialism. > > These persecutions were carried out specifically because the Communist states involved were anti-religious, although sometimes they would use the excuse that the people they were murdering were anti-State. > > Regards, > Shodan Certainly these are examples if communist organisations that excluded religion, but does that mean exclusion of religion is a necessary component of communism? ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-apologize-for-the-oslo-killings/590695/111 "2011-08-01T17:20:17Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > Ha ha ha ha HA HA HA! This is hilarious. Is Keynesian economics a non-mint-chocolate-chip-ice-cream idea? Is Libertarianism a non-Sergeant-Pepper’s-Lonely-Heart’s-Club-Band idea? > > Ha…HA HA ha HA HA… > > Thanks for the laughs, Ají. We could all use a chuckle. I’ll be here all week. Tip your waitress well. > [@Mangetout](#): > > No it’s not. Meat-eating and vegetarianism are necessarily mutually exclusive. Christianity and communism are not. > > They may not be especially compatible, but they’re not mutually exclusive. The early church had quite a socialist/communist leaning, at least as described in the Bible. > [@I\_Know\_Nothing](#): > > Maybe not Communism, but definitely communism. > From [dictionary.com](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/communism) > "1. a theory or system of social organization based on the holding of all property in common, actual ownership being ascribed to the community as a whole or to the state. " Agreed that they are not completely exclusive. I’ve alway thought that describing the early church a communisitc/socialist is putting 19th century European ideas into 1st century Palestine. There are similarities, but I’d call the early church “communalist”; there was never a question of ownership of the means ofproduction only on the fruits of the labour. > [@astorian](#): > > Lest I be accused of playing the “No True Scotsman” game, let’s be clear about a few things. > > OBVIOUSLY, there have been many Christians over the past 2,000 years who have done horrible things in the name of Jesus. As a Catholic Christian, I HAVE to be ashamed of such people, and I have an obligation to denounce them. > > Even though I KNOW that the Catholic Church has never said or done anything t oencourage the bombing of abortion clinics, I also know that the people who do such thing are frequently acting according to what they THINK are Catholic principles. So, as much as I’d like to wash my hands of such people, I can’t. I don’t have the luxury of pretending those people have nothing to do with me or my church. If it turns out that hypothetical “Sean Fitzgerald” planted a bomb at a Planed Parenthood clinic and said the Rosary while waiting for the bomb to go off… I HAVE to apologize for him. I think he’s a HORRIBLe Catholic, an EVIL Catholic, but there’s no way around it, he IS a Catholic, and I need to apologize for him. > > If Breivik is a Christian, I have to feel SOME responsibility for him. If his beliefs and principles resemble mine i nthe least, I may HAVE to apologize for him. So, IS he a Christian in any real sense? Even if I think he’s perverted Christianity, do I recognize him as some kind of Christian for all that? > > No, I don’t think so. His own writings indicate pretty clearly that he doesn’t even believe in God and has NEVER been religiously observant. He uses “Christian” as a vague, all-purpose name for what he regards as Western culture. > > A guy who doesn’t believe in God, who dismisses traditional religion as “a crutch,” and doesn’t belong to any kind of Church is not a Christian in my book. I don’t have to disassociate myself from him because he was NEVER associated with me in the first place. > [@astorian](#): > > How about this: instead of playing the game of “Your side did this” and “Yeah, well what about the time YOUR side did THAT,” let’s try another approach. > > Whenever an extremist of ANY ethnicity, of any religion, of any political affiliation, of any ideology, commits a terrible crime, the people who are part of his group(s) have to ask themselves honestly, “Do the things this guy believes really resemble what I believe? Are the things he’s saying anywhere close to things I know I’ve said myself? Are his causes my causes?” It doesn’t matter if we think the guilty party has twisted or perverted our beliefs. It doesn’t matter if we think he’s taken fine principles and pushed them too far. We have to ask honestly, “HOWEVER extreme and perverted this guy is, does he think/look/sound like me? And does that say anything damning about my beliefs?” > > SOMETIMES, as facts come out, we can let out a sigh of relief (“That guy who shot Congresswoman Giffords was a schizo, not a conservative!”). Sometimes we can’t. > > I’m NOT saying we bear responsibility for EVERYBODY on our side. Sometimes, bad people are connected to us by coincidence. As a Catholic, I feel no responsibility for the crimes of notorious Catholics like Al Capone, because Capone never made the slightest pretense to be driven by Catholic teachings. Torquemada, on the other hand, DID! I have to be ashamed of Torquemada- he committed his crimes BECAUSE of beliefs and principles I share. Even if it’s absolutely true that nothing Jesus said justified murder, the fact remains that people who sincerely consider thmeselves Christian DO commit murder in Christ’s name. It would be an unforgivable copout to resort to saying, “He’s not a TRUE Christian.” > > I don’t blame Al Gore or David Suzuki for the murders committed by the Unabomber, but Mr. Suzuki SHOULD be troubled by how similar Ted Kaczynski’s principles were to those of mainstream environmentalists. I don’t blame any of my Muslim co-workers for Major Hasan’s murderous spree at Fort Hood, but I sure HOPE they’re not too quick to say “That has nothing to do with Islam and only a racist would suggest it does.” Sorry, folks, but when a man commits murder while screaming “Allahu Akbar,” you CAN’T pretend he isn’t one of you. You have to look at the bad people acting in your name and ask yourselves if something has gone terribly wrong on your side. > > Sometimes we ALL have to ask that. I agree with your general idea, but more than apologise - because only the guilty apologise - it does give you a moment of reflection “Did we do something that a non-utterly-mad person may think validates this shit?”. Having said that, I’m more than willing to apologise if it serves the greater good, although my experince tells me that those who normally demand apologies never actually accept them because they want complete renunciation, i.e. if I apologised from Breivik I’d also have to drop Chrisitanity and start taking dumps on Bibles. The last bit about Breivik’s non-Christianity is very informative. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-apologize-for-the-oslo-killings/590695/112 "2011-08-01T20:25:38Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Certainly these are examples if communist organisations that excluded religion, but does that mean exclusion of religion is a necessary component of communism? It is of the version espoused by Marx and Lenin (and Pol Pot and Mao and Hoxhe etc.) Both believed that materialism, especially dialectical and historical materialism, were basic to their philosophy. > [@](#): > > Marx dubbed religion the “opiate of the masses,” and opined that, “Communism begins where atheism begins.” > [@Mao](#): > > Religion is poison. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-apologize-for-the-oslo-killings/590695/113 "2011-08-01T20:30:40Z")
1. Atheism is not materialism. 2. “Communism begins where atheism begins.” Murderers begin as babies, but no one is trying to constantly unfavorably associate the two. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-apologize-for-the-oslo-killings/590695/114 "2011-08-01T21:17:40Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > 1. Atheism is not materialism. Of course it is - don’t be ridiculous. > [@](#): > > 1. “Communism begins where atheism begins.” Murderers begin as babies, but no one is trying to constantly unfavorably associate the two. They do when the babies grow up and murder people. Look, atheists have killed lots and lots of people, especially during the 20th century. And lots of the time, their motive for killing people was that those they killed were religious and believed in God. These things happened. The fact that it bothers you to have this pointed out doesn’t mean it isn’t real. Deal with it. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-apologize-for-the-oslo-killings/590695/115 "2011-08-01T21:24:15Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Of course it is - don’t be ridiculous. > They do when the babies grow up and murder people. > > Look, atheists have killed lots and lots of people, especially during the 20th century. And lots of the time, their motive for killing people was that those they killed were religious and believed in God. These things happened. The fact that it bothers you to have this pointed out doesn’t mean it isn’t real. > > Deal with it. If you are referring to Communism, people weren’t killed because were religious and believed in God-they were killed because those in power believed that they threatened the State, they very same reason other _non_-religious groups in communist countries were persecuted. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-apologize-for-the-oslo-killings/590695/116 "2011-08-02T09:22:10Z")
> [@punch\_line\_loser](#): > > of course not. if anything, those journalists who insist on positing a link between this attack and islam ought to write apologies of their own. > > der trihs, while i claim no authority in biblical matters i would ask to see a quote from the canonical bible that resembles “go forth and kill the unbeliever/outsider/less powerful.” christianity (not unique in this regard) was able to spread because it offered empowerment to the less powerful, e.g. “the meek will inherit the earth,” and as for killing outsiders, well that not only conflicts directly with the teachings of jesus (see cecil’s article on the good samaritan), but it’s a pretty lousy way to win new converts, wouldn’t you say? don’t fall victim to the same prejudices that those who campaign against islam as a religion of hatred have. a sweeping generalization about “official doctrine” (as if such a thing for ‘christianity’ even exists) requires some pretty serious proof if you don’t want to appear completely ignorant, and to say that people using it to promote peace are perverting it is not only baseless but incredibly offensive even to a non-religious person like me. ‘enlightened’ age my left foot Exodus 22:20 Exodus 31:14 Exodus 32:27-29 Lev 25:44-46 Num 14:43-45 Num 33:50-52 Deu 3:6 Deu 13:6-10 Deu 7:2 Deu 12:30 Deu 13:1-5 Deu 17:2-7 Kings 3:19-25 2 chron 28:6 And there I’m bored, Yahweh was a bedouin war god previous to the whole “one and only” and much later trinity mess happened. Thus the killing of those who worshiped Baʿal etc… from the earlier “pagan” times. Even in the NT Jesus was condemning people to death and destruction for not believing, but you are correct there really is no official christian doctrine. the actual bible has little to do with most christian dogma. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-apologize-for-the-oslo-killings/590695/117 "2011-08-02T11:03:39Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > They do when the babies grow up and murder people. _No, they don’t._ If they did, where are the threads condemning Breivik’s mother for having children? Hell, to be comparable there’d have to be people condemning _all_ mothers for his actions. If you’re going to make ridiculous claims to defend your position, at least choose something less obviously absurd. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-apologize-for-the-oslo-killings/590695/118 "2011-08-02T15:44:16Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Of course it is - don’t be ridiculous. > They do when the babies grow up and murder people. > > Look, atheists have killed lots and lots of people, especially during the 20th century. And lots of the time, their motive for killing people was that those they killed were religious and believed in God. These things happened. The fact that it bothers you to have this pointed out doesn’t mean it isn’t real. > > Deal with it. > > Regards, > Shodan Cite where these athiests killed people in the name of not being theiests? I am looking for any evidence that they their main motive was being a skeptic and not believing in the supernatural was the justification for the murders. Note that Hitler claimed to be Catholic both in private and in public. FYI Pol Pot was not an atheist and the party actually adopted concepts from Theravada Buddhism. What I understand about Stalin is that no one died because they refused to embrace atheism. They died because they were deemed enemies of the state. Religious leaders were killed because not for refusing to become atheists, but because they were considered part of the old power structure that would try to oppose the state. Of course atheists can be bad people, but I see little proof that the lack of belief in a super natural power it is used as a common justification for mass murder. Obviously not being a theist does not preclude one from being dogmatic about other causes, like communism. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2011, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-apologize-for-the-oslo-killings/590695/119 "2011-08-03T03:34:39Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Okay, I’m curious. In what way do you see Breivik as different from Christian Identity whackos and the like? Because he hasn’t to your knowledge participated in the evangelical Christian ritual of the altar call? I’m not aware that Breivik ever made any indication that he wanted his actions tied to Christianity. I downloaded his manifesto and searched for “Christian”. It appears for the first time on page 53, because that’s where he trashes the Christian-Muslim alliance at Georgetown University. > [@sh1bu1](#): > > Wow, I’m impressed by the fact that you speak Norwegian and happy that you escaped alive from the island. I was misinformed and thought that [Welcome spittoon.org - BlueHost.com](http://www.spittoon.org/archives/10273:) When I click on that link, I get a file not found error. ---
**Author:** ![hildea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ebca7d/32.png) [@hildea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hildea)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2011, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-apologize-for-the-oslo-killings/590695/120 "2011-08-03T04:16:24Z")
Remove the : at the end of the URL: [Welcome spittoon.org - FastDomain.com](http://www.spittoon.org/archives/10273) ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-apologize-for-the-oslo-killings/590695/121 "2011-08-04T06:11:05Z")
I am a Christian. I am very sorry that guy killed so many people. I doubt that that will help much. Tris [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-apologize-for-the-oslo-killings/590695.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-apologize-for-the-oslo-killings/590695.md?page=7)