# Should Christians Be Forced to Photograph Gay Weddings? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 11, 2012, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847 "2012-06-11T19:50:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/21 "2012-06-11T20:28:50Z")
You do realize that religion is a lifestyle choice right? ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/22 "2012-06-11T20:30:26Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > Forcing a Christian to witness and record an act that completely violates their beliefs is wrong, and doesn’t make one a bigot. Christians shouldn’t hate gay people, but that doesn’t mean we should take part in gay pride parades either. Do you feel the same way about Christians being forced to photograph weddings of other religious practices? After all, doing so would completely violate their beliefs as well. I’m actually not sure how taking a photograph of another couple violates the Christian photographer’s beliefs. What belief is being violated, exactly? Does God prescribe the abstaining of homosexuals in pictures? ---
**Author:** ![GEEPERS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c89c15/32.png) [@GEEPERS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GEEPERS)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/23 "2012-06-11T20:30:47Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Really stupid analogy. > > Is the government grabbing animal rights activists off the street and telling them they have to take videos of a hunting trip? > The government argument is that a person who publicly offers to create videos or photographs of weddings and other celebrations must not discriminate against potential clients who seek that person’s services. It is the same concept that prohibits that person from refusing to provide photographic services to another person for being black (or white) or for being Russian or Baptist. > The photographer/videographer publicly offers a service and should not be refusing to provide that service due to his or her own personal prejudices. > (I am not sure why anyone would want to employ such a person, knowing that the photographer/videographer would probably do a crappy job–bigots are like that–but that is not the issue before the court.) It doesn’t matter if the government is forcing animal rights activists to create videos or not. It is a hypoethical, and you can be darn sure they would be furious if the government forced them to do so. But The hunting community is being discriminated against!! Homosexuals have essentially defined themselves as a race or class of citizens. So basically, anyone can make up their own class and fly the discrimination flag. Is that really the route you want to support? WOW. Funny the argument last week was that Christian organizations have the right to excluse members as long as it is not part of government or a college. Now, the goal posts are shifted. Atheists (generally speaking) will always be against Christians. ---
**Author:** ![typoink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@typoink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/typoink)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/24 "2012-06-11T20:33:28Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > Racial discrimination is something completely different, and it is an universal immoral offense that transcends all religions so refusing service to a person of a particular race is clear discrimination regardless of religious backgrounds. Homosexuality is a lifestyle choice, not a race. Huh, almost everything about this is wrong. Racial discrimination is not universally understood as immoral and has often been endorsed by various religions. Homosexuality is also not _merely_ a lifestyle choice, even if one accepts that it is a choice at all. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/25 "2012-06-11T20:33:52Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > It doesn’t matter if the government is forcing animal rights activists to create videos or not. It is a hypoethical, and you can be darn sure they would be furious if the government forced them to do so. But The hunting community is being discriminated against!! Homosexuals have essentially defined themselves as a race or class of citizens. So basically, anyone can make up their own class and fly the discrimination flag. Is that really the route you want to support? WOW. > > Funny the argument last week was that Christian organizations have the right to excluse members as long as it is not part of government or a college. Now, the goal posts are shifted. Atheists (generally speaking) will always be against Christians. Shifting goal posts. If you limited your photography to taking pictures of church members weddings you wouldn’t be subject to this law. This was already noted above. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/26 "2012-06-11T20:33:58Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > Atheists (generally speaking) will always be against Christians. What does this have to do with anything-I thought we were talking about gay people? Isn’t it just a little early in the thread to be jumping off-topic yet again? ---
**Author:** ![GEEPERS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c89c15/32.png) [@GEEPERS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GEEPERS)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/27 "2012-06-11T20:36:03Z")
> [@Meatros](#): > > Do you feel the same way about Christians being forced to photograph weddings of other religious practices? After all, doing so would completely violate their beliefs as well. > > I’m actually not sure how taking a photograph of another couple violates the Christian photographer’s beliefs. What belief is being violated, exactly? Does God prescribe the abstaining of homosexuals in pictures? Certainly, especially if the couple belongs to the church of Satan. Do you think it’s ok for a Christian to hang out at a strip club or prostitution house? Same principle. ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/28 "2012-06-11T20:37:15Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > And the slipper slope to lack of religious freedom continues. Now in NM, it is against the law for a Christian photographer to refuse services to a gay couple. Otherwise, it is discrimination. > > This is pretty outrageous. If I was a photographer, I should have the freedom to not produce photographs of something in which I had a moral objection. One good point that was made is that the government would never force an animal rights activist to create a video promoting hunting and taxidermy yet the same principle is applied here. > > "The ADF, a Christian legal alliance group, believes the court’s verdict in this case sends a clear message that: “you will be punished if you don’t fully endorse or promote the homosexual agenda, whether you agree with it or not.” > > [Christian Photographers to Appeal Decision Forcing Them to Cover Gay Marriages](http://www.christianpost.com/news/christian-photographers-lawyers-to-appeal-decision-forcing-gay-marriage-services-76278/) > > This is merely just one step away from my prediction that churches will be forced to admit gay members and conduct gay wedding ceremonies. If the business is supported by the tax base, I agree. If the business is private I believe they have the right to refuse service to anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/29 "2012-06-11T20:37:26Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > Do you think it’s ok for a Christian to hang out at a strip club or prostitution house? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/30 "2012-06-11T20:39:15Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > Certainly, especially if the couple belongs to the church of Satan. What the hell? Where was _that_ little factoid in the article you linked to? ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/31 "2012-06-11T20:39:20Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > Certainly, especially if the couple belongs to the church of Satan. > > Do you think it’s ok for a Christian to hang out at a strip club or prostitution house? Same principle. Wait? Are you claiming that Christians don’t hang out in strip clubs or whore houses? Are they all tapping their toes under bathroom stalls? Note that the highest rates of STD’s are also in some of the most religious states. I grew up around Salt Lake city, and the common joke was “why do you take two Mormons fishing with you” “because if you take one he will drink all your beer” ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/32 "2012-06-11T20:39:26Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > Atheists (generally speaking) will always be against Christians. No. **We are not doing this again.** You will confine your comments to the topic at hand and to related issues and refrain from these kinds of irrelevant broadsides. And everybody else will refrain from responding to them or making them. ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/33 "2012-06-11T20:39:59Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Plenty of Christians support gay rights and gay pride. Yes we are present even here ---
**Author:** ![picker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/picker/32/13969_2.png) [@picker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picker)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/34 "2012-06-11T20:49:30Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > Atheists (generally speaking) will always be against Christians. Not anymore than I’m against Moslems, Hindus, Jews or Jainists. You’re all equal in my athiestic heathen eyes. And in my experience with athiests - I daresay more than yours, at least on an intellectually honest level - that’s a pretty common sentiment. The difference is your whole damn religion is so wrapped up in guilt and sin and this twisted persecution complex that’s embedded in the whole psycho-mythos that everything that isn’t **exactly as you think it should be, AMEN** is either immoral, sinful, oppressive or anti-Xtian. In the real world, most of us atheists don’t give two shits about your beliefs, knock yourselves out. But show some personal respect to those who believe differently, or are different. For a religion of peace, love and tolerance, you sure like to tell the rest of us what to do, how to do it and who to do it [or not] to. Ever hear of the Pharisees? Get over yourselves and stay the fuck out of the lives of those who choose not to follow your particular brand of idolatry. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/35 "2012-06-11T20:51:07Z")
> [@picker](#): > > Get over yourselves and stay the fuck out of the lives of those who choose not to follow your particular brand of idolatry. Since this doesn’t relate to the actual topic - it’s about the law, not atheists vs. Christians - I’m instructing you to drop it. See my previous moderating instruction. ---
**Author:** ![GEEPERS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c89c15/32.png) [@GEEPERS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GEEPERS)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/36 "2012-06-11T20:51:31Z")
> [@Gagundathar](#): > > I find myself astonished that anyone in the USA would actually believe that Christians are being persecuted in any manner whatsoever. > It is as if right-handed people declared that a conspiracy was afoot when they first encountered left-handed scissors. > > “Oh my, Fred, take a look at this! A pair of scissors especially designed for those Satanic _Southpaws_! > Next thing you know, they’ll be taking away our rights to ostracize them!” > > Slippery slope? Really? > > And, yes, I know that Satanic _Southpaws_ is an awesome bandname. "The ADF, a Christian legal alliance group, believes the court’s verdict in this case sends a clear message that: “you will be punished if you don’t fully endorse or promote the homosexual agenda, whether you agree with it or not.” Do you disagree with this statement? If so, please demonstrate why. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/37 "2012-06-11T20:55:58Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > It doesn’t matter if the government is forcing animal rights activists to create videos or not. It is a hypoethical, and you can be darn sure they would be furious if the government forced them to do so. But The hunting community is being discriminated against!! Homosexuals have essentially defined themselves as a race or class of citizens. So basically, anyone can make up their own class and fly the discrimination flag. Is that really the route you want to support? WOW. > > Funny the argument last week was that Christian organizations have the right to excluse members as long as it is not part of government or a college. **Now, the goal posts are shifted.** Atheists (generally speaking) will always be against Christians. \ Nope - same goal posts - no discrimination - period - ‘Sexual Status’ is a protected thing (male/female) - homosexuals are a member of that class - therefore you cannot discriminate against them based on that reasoning alone. If the company in question is a public service - they are not allowed to discriminate. Period. Last weeks argument - which you clearly don’t understand - is that ‘Christian groups’ using University funds/stuff must abide by University rules - which was again, against discrimination - they were free to do what they wanted as long as they were not receiving University funding. you are free to substitute the word ‘Government’ for ‘University’ in the preceeding paragraph and it will still be true. And lastly, Christ regularly associated with sinners and even \ tax collectors - I think its perfectly reasonable for Christians (Followers of Christ, not the religion you claim) to associate with whom they choose - regardless of their belief system. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/38 "2012-06-11T20:56:24Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > "The ADF, a Christian legal alliance group, believes the court’s verdict in this case sends a clear message that: “you will be punished if you don’t fully endorse or promote the homosexual agenda, whether you agree with it or not.” > Do you disagree with this statement? If so, please demonstrate why. I disagree with this statement- no one has ever been punished for not fully endorsing or promoting the “homosexual agenda”. Actually, I’m not really clear on what the “homosexual agenda” is. If it’s just the stated goals- like homosexual couples getting rights like adoption, inheritance, hospital visitation, equal treatment under the law, etc, then I’m all for it. Is the “homosexual agenda” something different? ---
**Author:** ![picker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/picker/32/13969_2.png) [@picker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picker)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/39 "2012-06-11T20:56:55Z")
I apologize and will respectfully bow out of the discussion. ---
**Author:** ![GEEPERS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c89c15/32.png) [@GEEPERS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GEEPERS)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/40 "2012-06-11T20:58:21Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Yes, it does. Saying “I’m a Christian” is not a magic wand that means a position cannot be bigoted. It doesn’t mean the law doesn’t apply to you either, although again, I’m not totally clear on what the law is in New Mexico. > Again - and this is probably the 6th thread where you’ve done this - your interpretation of Christian views is not universal. Plenty of Christians support gay rights and gay pride. My view is quite mainstream. The fact that many states today has banned same sex marriages speaks in support. But you do have fringe pastors like Jay Bakker, son of disgraced evangelist, Jim Bakker, who openly supports gays. However, his congregation is a small group that meets at Pete’s Candy Store in NYC. The Christian community stopped supporting him when he came out pro-gay. Not really an example to support your statements. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847.md?page=3)