# Should Christians Be Forced to Photograph Gay Weddings? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 11, 2012, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847 "2012-06-11T19:50:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/41 "2012-06-11T20:58:31Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > "The ADF, a Christian legal alliance group, believes the court’s verdict in this case sends a clear message that: “you will be punished if you don’t fully endorse or promote the homosexual agenda, whether you agree with it or not.” > Do you disagree with this statement? If so, please demonstrate why. I disagree with it because it has nothing at all to do with the court’s decision. The court didn’t discuss endorsing or promoting anything, and “the homosexual agenda” didn’t come up either. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/42 "2012-06-11T21:00:16Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > My view is quite mainstream. The fact that many states today has banned same sex marriages speaks in support. > > But you do have fringe pastors like Jay Bakker, son of disgraced evangelist, Jim Bakker, who openly supports gays. However, his congregation is a small group that meets at Pete’s Candy Store in NYC. The Christian community stopped supporting him when he came out pro-gay. Not really an example to support your statements. There was popularity for keeping black people separate too. Majority doesn’t equal moral. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/43 "2012-06-11T21:01:25Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > But you do have fringe pastors like Jay Bakker, son of disgraced evangelist, Jim Bakker, who openly supports gays. However, his congregation is a small group that meets at Pete’s Candy Store in NYC. The Christian community stopped supporting him when he came out pro-gay. Not really an example to support your statements. Who here is using him as an example of anything? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/44 "2012-06-11T21:02:03Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I disagree with this statement- no one has ever been punished for not fully endorsing or promoting the “homosexual agenda”. Actually, I’m not really clear on what the “homosexual agenda” is. If it’s just the stated goals- like homosexual couples getting rights like adoption, inheritance, hospital visitation, equal treatment under the law, etc, then I’m all for it. Is the “homosexual agenda” something different? Sure, it starts innocently enough. Then comes mandatory manscaping and a national holiday for Paul Lynde. **GEEPERS** is just ringing the tocsin while there’s still time. ---
**Author:** ![GEEPERS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c89c15/32.png) [@GEEPERS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GEEPERS)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/45 "2012-06-11T21:02:47Z")
> [@simster](#): > > \ > > Nope - same goal posts - no discrimination - period - ‘Sexual Status’ is a protected thing (male/female) - homosexuals are a member of that class - therefore you cannot discriminate against them based on that reasoning alone. > > If the company in question is a public service - they are not allowed to discriminate. > > Period. > > Last weeks argument - which you clearly don’t understand - is that ‘Christian groups’ using University funds/stuff must abide by University rules - which was again, against discrimination - they were free to do what they wanted as long as they were not receiving University funding. > > you are free to substitute the word ‘Government’ for ‘University’ in the preceeding paragraph and it will still be true. > > And lastly, Christ regularly associated with sinners and even \ tax collectors - I think its perfectly reasonable for Christians (Followers of Christ, not the religion you claim) to associate with whom they choose - regardless of their belief system. Nope, last week, atheists argued that the Vanderbilt Christian group did not have the right to exclude gays as leaders as long as they operated on campus grounds. Now you are saying it doesn’t matter where they operate. Christians must accept gays everywhere. Goal shifting. Christ did hang out with prostitutes, but that doesn’t mean he put his seal of approval on the activity or that he sat back and watched orgies. He spoke out against sexual immorality. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/46 "2012-06-11T21:04:10Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > My view is quite mainstream. The fact that many states today has banned same sex marriages speaks in support. > > But you do have fringe pastors like Jay Bakker, son of disgraced evangelist, Jim Bakker, who openly supports gays. However, his congregation is a small group that meets at Pete’s Candy Store in NYC. The Christian community stopped supporting him when he came out pro-gay. Not really an example to support your statements. You DO realize that there are MAINSTREAM Christian denominations that support gay equality, right? Not just tiny storefront ministries. ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/47 "2012-06-11T21:04:12Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > national holiday for Paul Lynde. Showing your age. LOL ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/48 "2012-06-11T21:04:54Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > Christians must accept gays everywhere. Goal shifting. Was this part hidden? I didn’t see anyone suggest this at all. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/49 "2012-06-11T21:05:30Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Really stupid analogy. > > Is the government grabbing animal rights activists off the street and telling them they have to take videos of a hunting trip? > The government argument is that a person who publicly offers to create videos or photographs of weddings and other celebrations must not discriminate against potential clients who seek that person’s services. It is the same concept that prsecondohibits that person from refusing to provide photographic services to another person for being black (or white) or for being Russian or Baptist. > The photographer/videographer publicly offers a service and should not be refusing to provide that service due to his or her own personal prejudices. > (I am not sure why anyone would want to employ such a person, knowing that the photographer/videographer would probably do a crappy job–bigots are like that–but that is not the issue before the court.) First- they refused because of the act (the ceremony) not the people (who are gay). Second - do you want to force women who don’t touch men re: religion to do so? Sex is a protected class. Imho, ssm should be legal in all 50 states. But I also think that when religion and equal rights clash, the smaller scope of the law should apply. I don’t expect to get a job if I walk into a Catholic school. The government has already protected religious organizations on this issue. Why not private organizations that receive no tax dollars? The human rights commission asked the photography business to change its message. They weren’t discriminating against employees here. The HRC is apparently comprised of citizens appointed by the governor…I assumed it was a labor type board but apparently they have more power. How photography doesn’t fall under free speech I can’t tell you. ---
**Author:** ![GEEPERS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c89c15/32.png) [@GEEPERS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GEEPERS)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/50 "2012-06-11T21:06:48Z")
> [@Sinaptics](#): > > There was popularity for keeping black people separate too. Majority doesn’t equal moral. Except when it is in accordance to the Holy Word of God. Mark 12:31 certainly set the standard against racism. Romans 1:26-27 does not support homosexuality. Sorry, it doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/51 "2012-06-11T21:08:13Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > Christ did hang out with prostitutes, but that doesn’t mean he put his seal of approval on the activity or that he sat back and watched orgies. He spoke out against sexual immorality. Yes He did. But He also realized that communication through Love, not Hate was the solution. ---
**Author:** ![GEEPERS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c89c15/32.png) [@GEEPERS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GEEPERS)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/52 "2012-06-11T21:09:53Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > You DO realize that there are MAINSTREAM Christian denominations that support gay equality, right? Not just tiny storefront ministries. Example? Certainly not the Southern Baptist Convention which is largest Protestant body in the United States with over 16 million members. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/53 "2012-06-11T21:10:29Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > For me, the slippery slope worry is about what a public accommodation is. (There’s zero chance that churches will be required to marry people they don’t want to.) Does it apply to any commercial venture? Is that defined by a business license, or by simply offering a service? If I offer a service to one person, am I suddenly required to accept offers from everyone? Actually … See Ocean Grove Camp Meeting Association. They lost their tax exempt status for not renting property out for a commitment ceremony. They’re Methodists. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/54 "2012-06-11T21:13:55Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > My view is quite mainstream. > [@GEEPERS](#): > > Example? I think this is the first time you’ve acknowleged your views on gays are not shared by every single Christian. And to reiterate, they are not. The obvious counterexample is the Episcopalian Church. But I’m not trying to argue whose beliefs are more popular, just that your habit of suggesting Christians cannot support gays is not shared by all Christians and that your opinion should be qualified. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/55 "2012-06-11T21:14:01Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > Otherwise, it is discrimination. **“We don’t serve your kind here.”** Really, can you not see the problem with that attitude? Would you not be outraged if someone refused to serve you because they had a prejudice against you? ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/56 "2012-06-11T21:16:50Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > The government argument is that a person who publicly offers to create videos or photographs of weddings and other celebrations must not discriminate against potential clients who seek that person’s services. It is the same concept that prohibits that person from refusing to provide photographic services to another person for being black (or white) or for being Russian or Baptist. > The photographer/videographer publicly offers a service and should not be refusing to provide that service due to his or her own personal prejudices. I don’t like your answer here, because it’s so incomplete. A business owner _can_ discriminate based on his own personal prejudices, as long as those prejudices aren’t against certain protected groups (historically oppressed groups). A photographer could simply hate people who ride bicycles, and he’s completely within his rights to refuse service to someone because they’re a bicycle rider. However, he cannot refuse service on the basis of race or religion. And apparently in New Mexico he can’t refuse service on the basis of sexual orientation. ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/57 "2012-06-11T21:17:22Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I think this is the first time you’ve acknowleged your views on gays are not shared by every single Christian. That must have been a hard position for him to have. Im a Christian, and I have no issue with Gays. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/58 "2012-06-11T21:18:53Z")
> [@Farmer\_Jane](#): > > Actually … See Ocean Grove Camp Meeting Association. They lost their tax exempt status for not renting property out for a commitment ceremony. They’re Methodists. That’s different - their rental property is a public accommodation, and therefore subject to civil rights laws. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/59 "2012-06-11T21:19:06Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > Example? Certainly not the Southern Baptist Convention which is largest Protestant body in the United States with over 16 million members. The Southern Baptist Convention has a poor history regarding rights- in the past they supported slavery, white supremacism, and segregation (though they have since renounced these views). As far as churches that support gay marriage- many Anglican and Lutheran churches perform SSM ceremonies. There are no organizations (that I’m aware of) that are as large as the SBC that support SSM, but historically, smaller and independent religious groups have been ahead of the large religious groups as far as minority rights. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/60 "2012-06-11T21:19:12Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > Example? Certainly not the Southern Baptist Convention which is largest Protestant body in the United States with over 16 million members. I am not sure that an origination that actively rejected integration and defended white supremacy within recent history and still refuses to view women as equals should be used as a litmus test of christian tolerance. [They just rescinded their racist roots in 1995](http://www.sbc.net/resolutions/amResolution.asp?ID=899) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847.md?page=4)