# Should Christians Be Forced to Photograph Gay Weddings? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 11, 2012, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847 "2012-06-11T19:50:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/61 "2012-06-11T21:20:41Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > Example? Certainly not the Southern Baptist Convention which is largest Protestant body in the United States with over 16 million members. The following denominations are accepting of gays and lesbians, with a combined total of many many millions of members: The United Church of Christ The Community of Christ The Presbyterian Church The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America Anglicanism The Mennonite Church USA Church of England Cooperative Baptist Fellowship the United Methodist Church The Metropolitan Community Church The United Church of Christ The Episcopal Church The Moravian Church the Religious Society of Friends (Quakers) The Association of Welcoming and Affirming Baptists German Lutheran Swiss Reformed Church The Old Catholic Churches The Uniting Church in Australia The United Reformed Church the Protestant Church in the Netherlands the United Protestant Church in Belgium The United Church of Canada the Danish National Church, the Church of Sweden the Church of Iceland, the Church of Norway the France Reformed Church the Waldensian Evangelical Church First Christian Reformed Church of Toronto ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/62 "2012-06-11T21:25:25Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > Nope, last week, atheists argued that the Vanderbilt Christian group did not have the right to exclude gays as leaders as long as they operated on campus grounds. Now you are saying it doesn’t matter where they operate. Christians must accept gays everywhere. Goal shifting. > > Christ did hang out with prostitutes, but that doesn’t mean he put his seal of approval on the activity or that he sat back and watched orgies. He spoke out against sexual immorality. Again - and for Clarity - PUBLIC accommodations - businesses, etc - are not allowed to discriminate PRIVATE accommodations - churches, you, your house, an in house service provided by a church for the exclusive usage of the membership - can be as discriminatory as they want to be. No goalpost shifting. You just can’t quite grok the concept of public vs. private. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/63 "2012-06-11T21:27:37Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > Do you think it’s ok for a Christian to hang out at a strip club or prostitution house? Same principle. That depends; is it OK for a Christian to hang out with thieves and criminals? ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/64 "2012-06-11T21:29:13Z")
NM also has a Religious Freedom Restoration Act. It was supported by the ACLU. Note: I don’t support the OPs claims. I’m just not convinced the law was applied correctly. NM forbids ssm. If this law were applied correctly, it would appear that NM also violates its own laws. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/65 "2012-06-11T21:31:44Z")
> [@Farmer\_Jane](#): > > Just because someone doesn’t support ssm doesn’t make them a piece of shit. May as well say all Catholics hate women. Jews, too. > > Religion is not teh eebil. It’s a work in progress. And thinking that not supporting SSM is a mistaken point of view and discrimination based on that is low behavior doesn’t mean you think religion is “teh eebil” (a phrase by the way that makes me want to scratch my eyes out. I swear, it’s like nails on a chalkboard). ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/66 "2012-06-11T21:32:00Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > "The ADF, a Christian legal alliance group, believes the court’s verdict in this case sends a clear message that: “you will be punished if you don’t fully endorse or promote the homosexual agenda, whether you agree with it or not.” > Do you disagree with this statement? If so, please demonstrate why. Do I disagree that the Alliance Defense Fund (a political action committee dedicated to defending the first amendment rights of neoconservative Christians) stated that “you will be punished if you don’t fully endorse or promote the homosexual agenda, whether you agree with it or not”? No. I will take you at your word for that. It seems completely natural for a political entity to use emotionally-charged language in such a manner. Do I think that New Mexico’s Human Rights Act allows a place of public accommodation to discriminate against people based upon their sexual orientation? Since the court has ruled that ADF’s client was guilty of discrimination, then I am fairly comfortable stating that this is the current interpretation of the existing law. Do I think that it is acceptable for anyone to discriminate against anyone based upon their sex, race, color, religion, national origin, or sexual orientation? No, I don’t. I hope I have made my position on this subject crystal clear. As to the charge leveled by Tony Perkins of the Family Research Council that this decision is “…just a snapshot of what’s happening around the country in business, sports, Hollywood, and schools. Homosexual activists are absolutely determined to punish people who refuse to embrace and celebrate their lifestyle choices,” I find it ludicrous. How can a demand to be treated equally in the eyes of the law be an attack against any organization or creed unless such an organization or creed supports discrimination against any of the above defined groups? In other words, all that any group needs to do to avoid being ‘punished’ is to adhere to the law as passed by the legislative body and interpreted by the judiciary. Please keep in mind, these same laws are also applicable to the protection of YOUR rights as well. They are not the result of some evil homosexual agenda. I imagine that if they were, the wording of the laws would be considerably different. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/67 "2012-06-11T21:32:27Z")
> [@Farmer\_Jane](#): > > I don’t support the OPs claims. I’m just not convinced the law was applied correctly. Yeah, I have to wonder, too, how this business counts as a public accomodation. > [@](#): > > NM forbids ssm. If this law were applied correctly, it would appear that NM also violates its own laws. I wouldn’t be surprised if that issue is being litigated. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/68 "2012-06-11T21:45:48Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > That depends; is it OK for a Christian to hang out with thieves and criminals? _snicker_ I see what you did there 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![florez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9e5f3/32.png) [@florez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/florez)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/69 "2012-06-11T21:46:08Z")
GEEPERS OP made me recall an animal rights activist I knew who started out to film a hunt with the idea of showing how horrible it was. Later he admitted to me that he had bonded with the hunters during the filming, and had a better understanding of what made them tick. He listened to the hunters talk about why they hunted for food, as opposed to buying pre-killed meat at the market… and although he disagreed with the killing of animals, he had enough respect for different viewpoints that he learned something new, and he made friends when he might have made enemies by remaining closed minded. Yet sadly these homophobic professional photographers could not open their minds beyond the BS that they would be promoting something they disapproved of, rather than just accepting that their gay clients only wanted a private keepsake film of their wedding, something that straight couples would never have to battle to obtain. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/70 "2012-06-11T21:46:57Z")
I am conflicted on this one. One side - everyone should have the right to choose their customers, just as much as we have the right to choose who we do business with AS customers. Opposite side - I don’t want to see white only lunch counters. My personal message-board recommendation - you can discriminate, but you have to file with the business permit office and publically post who you discriminate against. That way others can decide if they want to do business with you or not based on your officially posted bigotry. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/71 "2012-06-11T21:52:39Z")
Wow **GEEPERS**. You have so much hate in you. I truly feel sorry for you. But I forgive you for the things you say. ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/72 "2012-06-11T21:53:18Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > That depends; is it OK for a Christian to hang out with thieves and criminals? Christ did… Im gonna burn in hell for that one… ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/73 "2012-06-11T21:54:38Z")
> [@Farmer\_Jane](#): > > . . . do you want to force women who don’t touch men re: religion to do so? Sex is a protected class. That’s a bit surreal… The law already prohibits anyone from touching anyone who doesn’t want it. There isn’t any discrimination involved: no one is allowed to lay a hand on someone else who doesn’t wish it. (Trivial exceptions aside: if you and I are on a crowded bus, then, yeah, we might involuntarily get jostled together.) ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/74 "2012-06-11T21:56:32Z")
A filming /photography business is not a restaurant, rental, entertainment venue, or anything I can think of that is a public accommodation in the traditional sense. I’m not sure ‘services’ equals ‘public accommodation’. Two things jump out. They weren’t refused services on the basis of being gay…and NM law does not have ssm, though they don’t outright forbid it. SSM seems to be a giant clusterfuck in that state. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/75 "2012-06-11T21:57:51Z")
> [@Farmer\_Jane](#): > > Just because someone doesn’t support ssm doesn’t make them a piece of shit. Every person on Earth who is against SSM is being a dick-hole. Every single one. They may be nice otherwise, but they’re still prejudiced against homosexuals. Is someone who thinks blacks shouldn’t be able to marry whites not being a jerk? > [@](#): > > May as well say all Catholics hate women. Jews, too. Well, a Catholic or Jew who follows their religion closely, certainly would be anti-woman. But most religious people are decent, because they ignore the especially evil parts of their religion. > [@](#): > > Religion is not teh eebil. It’s a work in progress. If it were created at the behest of an omnipotent being one would expect it would be right from the get-go. Religion is made-up. It’s a fairy story. Denying other people rights because your favorite fairy-story tells you to is way-shitty. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/76 "2012-06-11T22:00:31Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > A business has the right to refuse service to customers. Same as a store that demands no shirts, no shoes, no service, or a restaurant that requires a dress code. If you don’t like it, you have the freedom to take your business elsewhere. Unless the person is a protected class. > [@](#): > > Forcing a Christian to witness and record an act that completely violates their beliefs is wrong, and doesn’t make one a bigot. If your religion tells you that black people are dirty so you don’t want to serve them in your restaurant, you think that would be okay? > [@](#): > > Christians shouldn’t hate gay people, but that doesn’t mean we should take part in gay pride parades either. No one is asking Christians to take part in pride parades. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/77 "2012-06-11T22:01:19Z")
> [@Farmer\_Jane](#): > > They weren’t refused services on the basis of being gay… Yes, they were. The distinction you’re making is nonsensical and not worth the effort. That being said, I’d like a clear explanation of what is going on in this case. I can’t find a lot of explanations of the meaning of “public accomodation” in New Mexico law, and most of the hits I’m getting on Google are related to this case, so that doesn’t help much. I find myself thinking there has to be more to this law. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/78 "2012-06-11T22:01:42Z")
No, but they should be forced to look at ultrasounds of gay weddings. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/79 "2012-06-11T22:02:24Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Sure, it starts innocently enough. Then comes mandatory manscaping and a national holiday for Paul Lynde. **GEEPERS** is just ringing the tocsin while there’s still time. I support Paul Lynde Day (June 13th). He was great. I just wish they wouldn’t always combine it with Liberace Day (May 16th) and try to screw us out of a second long hot weekend. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847/80 "2012-06-11T22:03:24Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > No, but they should be forced to look at ultrasounds of gay weddings. Sorry to double post, but… I think I love you. That was the best post of the month. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christians-be-forced-to-photograph-gay-weddings/624847.md?page=5)