The majority of the answers have been “it depends.” It seems you want an absolute position with no nuances and you’ve been kind of scornful of answers that are based on the law, but “it depends” is an entirely sensible answer.
Boo fucking hoo.
You make wildly unsupported accusations of Christian persecution, back them with face smackingly poor cites and then refuse to admit you are wrong. The fact that numerous people are fully capable of disassembling your arguments says more about their poor construction that anything else.
The Christian school can discriminate who it allows to be "ministers’ –> supported by the constitution.
The public business is not allowed to discriminate based on personal bias –> supported by the constitution.
In a modern pluralistic society not everyone gets everything they want - suck it up.
I’ll also agree on principle. I think there should be an exception for certain categories of business- hotels, restaurants and the like, at least- but I think Jesus Photography should be able to pick and choose its clients.
Nobody forced anyone (Christian or otherwise) to photograph a gay wedding.
No such gay wedding took place and the person who provided a public accommodation (in this case, their services as a photographer) and yet refused service to two people because of their sexual orientation was fined for breaking the law.
Your original thesis is fatally flawed and I believe you are misusing it as a vehicle for other topics.
One can speak out against sin. However, you have done more then that. In your posts, you have made sweeping judgments of others while pontificating. Speaking out and judging others are not equal. The Bible teaches us not to throw stumbling blocks in front of others. In short, do not act in a way that would prevent another from finding Gods Grace.
Do you think your behavior does that? Remember, all sin is equal. Thus, if one participated in a gay act or one sits in judgment of the other, God see’s them as the same.
Judge not, lest ye be judged with the same veracity
When the Bible says judging it good, it means that we are to judge what others are doing for our own behavior. Using the current topic at hand, Homosexuality, let me explain
My best friend is gay. I dont tell him he is wrong, going to hell. What I do is, decide I will not participate in homosexuality. Thus, I have judged that being gay isnt what the Bible teaches and I apply that to MY behavior, not my best friends. It is up to him to live his life. It isnt up to me to tell him how to live.
Sure you want to phrase it this way?
That’s a pretty poor argument. That’s like saying I have the freedom to go rob a bank. I just have to accept the consequences of imprisonment. There is really no choice in the matter.
Sure there is…that’s what the Civil Rights Movement was ABOUT! Some people thought certain laws were unjust and thus chose to civilly disobey those laws. Civil disobedience includes willingly paying the consequences of those unjust laws to bring the unjust nature of those laws to public attention. If our intrepid Christian shutterbugs truly feel that non-discrimination laws that include sexual orientation are unjust, then they should feel free to violate those laws and also willingly take the consequences of them.
The CHOICE in the matter comes with the action, not the consequence. Nobody gets to choose consequences, only actions.
Should a gay photographer be forced to photograph weddings at NC pastor Charles Worley’s church?
Is it a public business providing services withing the same context as your original OP?
Yes.
hell I would imagine those good Christians might even get a discount since the photographer is likely going to get some great reaction shots from congregation when they find out their pastor hired a “gay photographer”
So you are willing to let your friend spend eternity in hellfire because it is the PC thing to do these days? Wow, some friend.
I’m going to answer a slightly different question first. Let’s pretend you asked, “Should Christians be able to ignore laws if those laws contradict their beliefs?” My answer to this question is, clearly not. We live in a nation of laws, and you should not be able to ignore laws simply because those laws contradict your beliefs. Your beliefs are fine for your own spiritual self, but they are irrelevant in the matter of how you follow the law.
There’s a secondary question, which is, should it be legal to discriminate against gay people? Here, I believe the answer is, clearly not. If you discriminate against people with facial tattoos, that’s not a huge problem, because they can take their business elsewhere. If you discriminate against people with red hair, same thing (I say as a redhead). But there are groups that face historical and modern pervasive discrimination, and we’ve decided as a society to specifically forbid such discrimination, because if we don’t, they end up with a huge burden of discrimination. And those laws are wise.
So yes: preventing discrimination against gay people is good public policy. And no, I don’t give a rat’s ass what motivates your desire to discriminate, you don’t get to do it. Not even if God told you to.
According to born-again Christian Jack Chick, being gay won’t send you to hell, only not believing in Jesus Christ will. Even murderers are redeemed.
“He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” John 3:18
“And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life…” John 6:40
So you would gladly worship a being that would torture somebody for eternity for not guessing correctly from a choice of thousands which particular sect from which particular religion is the right one? Wow, some human.
Not the same. The “Pastor” has threatened violence and death against all gays for having the audacity to exist. The couple merely wanted some photos.
Really, this OP could have been in GQ, and could have been answered in the first post:
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No, Christians should not be forced to photograph gay weddings.
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However, if a company is advertising a service for the general public, they are not allowed to discriminate about who they serve, and therefore cannot deny service to any member of a protected class based on their membership in that class. In New Mexico, protected classes include race, color, religion, age, sex and sexual orientation.
Note that they cannot use the fact that their religion does not like a particular class as a reason to discriminate against that class. The law trumps their own religion’s discrimination practices.
So, in this case, where a company was offering a service to the public, and advertised to the public, they are considered to be in violation of the law if they refuse service based on the fact that someone is in a protected class. This includes if they refused service to a black family because they were black; if they refused service to an elderly couple because they were old; if they refused service to a Christian because they disliked Christians; if they refused service to a gay couple because they were gay.
They can refuse service for a variety of other reasons. They can refuse service if someone is dirty or smelly. Or if someone is a convicted felon. Or if they don’t like their shoes. However they cannot refuse service because they dislike all members of a particular protected class.
In this case, the business was offering and advertising a service to the public. When they offer to provide to the public for remuneration, it means they must follow the law. The law says that they cannot discriminate against clients because of the fact they are in a protected class. If they want to break the law, that is up to them to do so, and then face the consequences. Nothing else really matters.
So to sum up: No, Christians cannot be forced to photograph gay weddings. However, businesses who service the general public cannot discriminate (In NM at any rate) against someone just because they are gay.
Nice post - needs more feigned persecution though.
You know, GEEPERS, you sure are obsessed with homosexuals.
Thank you for judging him. I hope God is kinder on his judgment of you
Are you ready to be judged? Youre sure jumping to a lot of conclusions here. Just because I dont proselytize him, doesnt mean I havent fellowshiped.
I have discussed my beliefs. I also try and set examples of what being a Christian is. You see sir, while you have already judged him and sentenced him to Hell, he is still alive and still can be saved. This is why we are not to sit in judgment of others. Their souls are in Gods hands. Our job is to make available Gods Grace through fellowship.
“Thou shalt not throw stumbling blocks in front of others”
Your type of reaction in this case is the type of reaction that keeps him from finding Gods Grace. He has shared this with me.
Judge not lest ye be judged with the same veracity
You keep ignoring scriptures that are telling you what youre doing… If I can see this, I bet God can.
So, I’m the only one who thinks that the government needs to identify all Christians, regardless of profession, and force them to take photographs at gay weddings and and film the gay wedding nights? While naked? And performing an abortion?