# Should Christmas still be a federal holiday? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 9, 2012, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christmas-still-be-a-federal-holiday/612341 "2012-02-09T20:27:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2012, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christmas-still-be-a-federal-holiday/612341/41 "2012-02-10T17:28:16Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Yes, if only because I don’t need to hear more complaining about a “War on Christmas”. Yeah, just drop an H-bomb on it and declare victory, already. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2012, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christmas-still-be-a-federal-holiday/612341/42 "2012-02-10T17:54:08Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > I think some of you have the cause and effect backwards. We don’t take off of work because it’s a federal holiday. It’s a federal holiday because take off of work. If you know that no one is actually going to show up to work, why bother remaining open? If 70% of your workforce demanded to have a certain day off, whatever the reason, and state that they’re going to take it off no matter what, why would you deny them the day off? While I agree, the government isn’t exactly consistent in its holiday policy. Only 3 (maybe 4) holidays apply to this rule: New Years, Christmas, and Thanksgiving, and I’ll maybe grant you Independence day. The rest are days that nobody would take off anyway, and in fact my civilian employer, like many others, lets us shift some of those days to days that we might actually _want_ to take off, like pushing Veteran’s Day to the day after Thanksgiving. Based on my experience working for the government, nobody shows up on the day after Thanksgiving, and most of the 2 week period around Christmas is a ghost town. Specifically, the government might as well just shut down for the whole week of Christmas for as much work that gets done then. So the policy isn’t standardized, and Christmas does somewhat get singled out as the lone religious holiday. Ultimately, this could all be solved if we combine this policy of “shut down when nobody’s going to show up anyway” with **Cosmic Relief** ’s brilliant plan to shuffle the remaining holidays to days that make more sense. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2012, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christmas-still-be-a-federal-holiday/612341/43 "2012-02-10T19:06:58Z")
[QUOTE=Omg a Black Conservative] Who wants to work on Christmas [/QUOTE] ? > [@Cumberdale](#): > > Wouldn’t bother me. Just another day. Besides, many people do work on Christmas day. But most of the people who work on Christmas have jobs where they perform a necessary public service like the police, fire department, military, and emergency medical care. Those that don’t (e.g., mill workers who end up with a holiday shift) are often compensated with a higher wage for having to come in. As for me, I’m not religious but I would be royally pissed if I had to go to work on Christmas. (Incidentally, my occupation is not one of those jobs that’s so important to the public welfare that there has to somebody present at my workplace 24/7.) ---
**Author:** ![howye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9adbd/32.png) [@howye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/howye)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2012, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christmas-still-be-a-federal-holiday/612341/44 "2012-02-10T20:19:27Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > If the founders were so insistent on such a separation, why did this dictate get ignored until the last half of the last century? > > In other words, here we are in 1790. We have a new Constitution and Bill of Rights, which, according to you, was indeed intended to create a wall of separation between church and state. > > Yet no one though to complain about paid chaplains for Congress, and Congress opening its sessions with prayer. these were the selfsame men that according to wished to eschew conduct like this, and here they are not only allowing to happen elsewhere, but paying for it to happen in their own chambers! > > Maryland permitted taxation for support of the Christian religion and limited civil office to Christians until 1818. The Constitution of North Carolina forbid office holders to deny the truth of the Protestant religion. How could these kinds of things exist, given the opinion you ascribe to our founders? > > Here’s the truth: there were many “founders,” but in general, to the them as a whole, “establishment” meant connoted sponsorship, financial support, and substantial, active involvement of the government in religious worship. As Justice Buurger observed in Walz v. Tax Commission, 397 U.S. 664 (1970): > > Over the years, the meaning has tightened up considerably. **Bricker** Have you read the 1st amendment? “Congress shall make no…” Prior to incorporation, the 1st would not have been applied to state governments. It would have been applied only to actions taken by the federal government. That is, your argument that Maryland or North Carolina did anything at that time is irrelevant to the historical basis, isn’t it? As to state government there was tremendous variation in what establishment meant among the colonies and later ex-colonies. New England taxed directly for the benefit of the church, although even that varied within the region and with the times. But in the Meanwhile, the mid-atlantic colonies were settled by altogether different religious backgrounds and would never have taxed directly to support local churches. Beyond that, well hell, I seem to have left my law school papers at home today. But I would send you to this [site](http://nationalhumanitiescenter.org/tserve/eighteen/ekeyinfo/sepchust.htm), on quick glance it shows the depth of the historical debate and even has links to some primary sources. I would suggest that your usual method of trying to find some court case to encapsualte and justify your position is wrong yet again. A reading of primary sources shows that Madison and Jefferson were in communication during the drafting of the Constitution and what would become the Bill of Rights. Both figures believed in a separation of church and state, but were men of their times and often bowed to public opinion. You say these men did not object to Congressional chaplains? Try this law review [article](http://www.law.northwestern.edu/lawreview/v102/n1/145/LR102n1Olree.pdf). PDF Warning. ---
**Author:** ![Lanzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/74df32/32.png) [@Lanzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lanzy)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2012, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christmas-still-be-a-federal-holiday/612341/45 "2012-02-10T20:32:16Z")
I want more fed holidays, not less. any excuse will do. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2012, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christmas-still-be-a-federal-holiday/612341/46 "2012-02-10T20:44:00Z")
Happy Wednesday! ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2012, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christmas-still-be-a-federal-holiday/612341/47 "2012-02-10T21:27:55Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Happy Wednesday! Stop trying to push your Heathenism on us, you Odin lover, you! ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2012, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christmas-still-be-a-federal-holiday/612341/48 "2012-02-10T21:34:07Z")
I’ll just add my vote to everyone who says this is simply a practical matter since so many people will take the day off anyway. I suggest we can resolve all these matters by having a federal Atheist’s Day where everybody has to work. Of course it’s not called that, just something like Work Recognition Day. Then there can’t be any complaints of it actually being an anti-religious holiday, and atheists should be satisfied that nobody’s getting the day off to practice theism. ---
**Author:** ![2sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e47774/32.png) [@2sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2sense)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2012, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christmas-still-be-a-federal-holiday/612341/49 "2012-02-10T23:38:00Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > It’s not a claim, it’s documented fact. Of course, Charles I was a suspected Catholic sympathiser and his wife was Catholic, so it may be a double whammy. I wasn’t trying to imply that someone had made the story up. It was Lord Baltimore who claimed the colony for the queen. There are documents that prove this claim was made but there aren’t any that prove he was telling the truth. I can’t imagine any kind of document that would do so definitively. Even a diary entry would be subject to debate since they are often written with an eye towards posthumous reading. As you say, it could be he was honoring both the queen and the Virgin Mary. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-christmas-still-be-a-federal-holiday/612341.md?page=2)