One thing that has not been addressed by Shodan or any of the other pro-church police in this thread is how they would feel about a mosque having its own police force.
The fact that they have not responded to these points gives me the opinion that they would be against it, but that they could not articulate why, without undermining their argument for christian churches to have a police force.
So, if you are for a Christian church having its own police force, do you also extend that to other (and all) religions?
I’m not necessarily for any particular church having a police force, but if it meets whatever objective criteria that universities and RRs have met, then I would support them getting one. This would extend to any church (or other organization) - the whole point is that the religion or lack of religion shouldn’t enter into the discussion. My opinion is that there’s really no justification for the church in question or nearly any religious body to have a police force.
But if churches can qualify for a police force, then a mosque or temple should be treated with the same objective criteria.
quote from a another poster “For those wondering why they don’t just hire a security firm or contract from a local police force, the article mentions this ttidbit”:
Quote:
The bill was first proposed after students at Briarwood’s high school were arrested in a drug bust in early 2015, which made a splash in Birmingham-area media. While church administrators deny the raid was a catalyst for the bill, critics worry that similar instances could go unreported if the church had its own police.
They want their own police so they can hide crap and not get embarrassed … so what happens when some big shots kid had his preference for 12 year old girls covered up for years
Exactly why religious affiliated universities aren’t barred from having a police force. That’s been mentioned many times in this thread. But colleges weren’t granted police forces because “many people gather for stuff” so I’m still missing your point.
My post was not to imply that Shodan or anyone on this thread would argue against a certain religious institution having a police force, as he very clearly points out his belief in the freedom to express ones religion. I suppose my comment was more aimed towards the general American public.
As this is the first I have heard of this particular topic and situation, I’m assuming its not on the average American’s radar.
while making assumptions can make an ass of anyone, I have a sneaking suspicion that if this was in fact a Mosque, in an area heavily populated by Muslims, I would be seeing a whole lot of outrage on social media about the mere possibility, the mere thought of Sharia law possibly being enforced by a religious police.
I’m not sure how many here actually read the OP’s link but I haven’t seen anyone mention the rather interesting fact that this legislation actually passed last year but it seems the governor gave it a pocket veto without comment.
The point is: pretend it is not a church. It is a building where people come every Sunday morning and Wednesday evening to talk about their favorite movies. They all dress up and make new friends from these movie discussions. Some go out into the community and try to convince others to watch their favorite movies.
If the State believes that this group should be permitted to have its own police protection, then a church should be able to as well. If not, then it is permissible to deny a church like this to have its own police protection.
I’m sure where private colleges having police forces is permitted, there are still guidelines regarding which ones are granted that ability- just because a private residential college with a campus and a population the size of a small town has an actual police force doesn’t mean that a private commuter college with the same number of students and a “campus” that consists of 5 buildings scattered across 3 city blocks would be granted one. And I certainly can’t imagine that a private college with a campus that consisted of one two story building would be allowed to have its own police force. *
There are reasons why the former would be allowed to have a police department which don't apply to the latter- and I think a big one is that the former situation takes a burden off the city/village/town/county police in a way the latter doesn't. For example, a residential campus the size of a large town means that local law enforcement can reduce staffing as they will not need to patrol the campus, while the scattered commuter campus does not , as the fact that 100 Washington Street is a college building doesn't allow reduced staffing if the other six buildings on that block do not belong to the college.
And that’s the problem I have with the idea of churches having private police forces. So far as I can tell, the colleges mentioned as having police forces have been either large residential colleges with campuses like Notre Dame or public universities. I haven’t seen any private commuter colleges mentioned, or any with a campus that consists of buildings scattered throughout city streets . If there is somewhere a church that has a large campus with 5000 or so people living on it, I might not have a problem with them having their own police force. (but I’m not sure)
In order for there to be a First Amendment violation , the different treatment must have a religious basis. That's why you can't allow a private secular university to have its own police agency but not allow a private religious college to have one. But that doesn't mean you can't distinguish between groups for other reasons- you can absolutely allow a private university to have its own police force while not allowing private high schools, or museums , or community sports leagues to do so. And that also means you can allow it for a private religious university but not allow it for a church. What you can't do is allow it for all different sorts of organizations , including some that are very similar to churches (such as a Secular Humanist group) and then exclude only churches.
I wonder how much of this is due to people’s visions of “church” and "college. Where I live a “church” might be anything from a rented storefront to a collection of five or so buildings on city streets and a “college” might be anything from a campus with dorms to two floors in an office buidling.
In Ohio, the size and population of a university does not appear to matter. There are guidelines, but they’re very basic. If it grants degrees and is accredited, it may form a police a department. I’m sure there aren’t many or any colleges with a single building that do have a police department, but that would be because of their own internal decisions.
definitely rules out colleges which only grant associate degrees and also rules out commuter colleges unless “program of education in residence” means something very different than it seems to. And if “in residence” means what it seems to, that in itself would eliminate colleges consisting of a single building as a practical matter.