# Should churches that refuse to perform gay marriages lose tax exempt status? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 19, 2014, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-churches-that-refuse-to-perform-gay-marriages-lose-tax-exempt-status/681742 "2014-02-19T23:54:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-churches-that-refuse-to-perform-gay-marriages-lose-tax-exempt-status/681742/182 "2014-02-24T17:51:21Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > He was 62 I think, at the time. It was his first marriage. So, perhaps he was unfamiliar with the process. She was Protestant and converted. Eh, fair enough. I’m not at all sure how someone can get to 62 without realizing that the RCC considers premarital cohabitation a sin. But we’re considerably afield. To get (loosely) back to the OP, I can think of no reason that your friend’s priest should have been forced to perform a religious rite against the doctrines of his faith. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-churches-that-refuse-to-perform-gay-marriages-lose-tax-exempt-status/681742/183 "2014-02-24T17:52:40Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > So England has managed to do away with the tax-exempt status for churches? Why can’t we? They still enjoy the same tax exemptions any other nonprofit organizations do. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-churches-that-refuse-to-perform-gay-marriages-lose-tax-exempt-status/681742/184 "2014-02-24T18:15:44Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Eh, fair enough. I’m not at all sure how someone can get to 62 without realizing that the RCC considers premarital cohabitation a sin. > > But we’re considerably afield. To get (loosely) back to the OP, I can think of no reason that your friend’s priest should have been forced to perform a religious rite against the doctrines of his faith. I believe he thought that such notions were hopelessly outdated (as I do). ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-churches-that-refuse-to-perform-gay-marriages-lose-tax-exempt-status/681742/185 "2014-02-24T18:22:18Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > I believe he thought that such notions were hopelessly outdated (as I do). Wouldn’t that mean marriage, let alone Catholic marriage, would itself be outdated? Why expect an ancient ritual of an ancient religion to be “up to date?” ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-churches-that-refuse-to-perform-gay-marriages-lose-tax-exempt-status/681742/186 "2014-02-24T18:24:40Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Wouldn’t that mean marriage, let alone Catholic marriage, would itself be outdated? > > Why expect an ancient ritual of an ancient religion to be “up to date?” I meant the notion that living together was ‘really bad’. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-churches-that-refuse-to-perform-gay-marriages-lose-tax-exempt-status/681742/187 "2014-02-24T18:32:56Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > I meant the notion that living together was ‘really bad’. Same point. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-churches-that-refuse-to-perform-gay-marriages-lose-tax-exempt-status/681742/188 "2014-02-24T18:48:22Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Same point. I have written to him to ask what the priest said. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-churches-that-refuse-to-perform-gay-marriages-lose-tax-exempt-status/681742/189 "2014-02-24T19:00:53Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Wouldn’t that mean marriage, let alone Catholic marriage, would itself be outdated? How so? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-churches-that-refuse-to-perform-gay-marriages-lose-tax-exempt-status/681742/190 "2014-02-24T19:07:35Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > How so? Um, because it is? It’s weird to say “hey, the idea that living together is a sin is so outdated! Now, please marry me according to this ancient ritual in your very very old religion.” ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-churches-that-refuse-to-perform-gay-marriages-lose-tax-exempt-status/681742/191 "2014-02-24T19:13:07Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > Since almost everyone today who is in a serious relationship is ‘living together’ with someone, these priests are wasting their time. It’s idiotic, especially for a couple in their 60s! he had never been married, but she had, and was divorced and has adult children. > > I would advise these couples to keep their mouths shut. False. About 60% of people who get married, today, lived together first. That is not ‘almost everyone’. Living together before marriage may also increase the risk of subsequent divorce, though that’s somewhat debated and I don’t really want to take a stand one way or the other. If you don’t take the same view of marriage that the Catholic Church does (that marriage is indissoluble except by the death of one partner, that it’s oriented towards procreation and childrearing, etcetera) then you shouldn’t be seeking marriage in a Catholic Church. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-churches-that-refuse-to-perform-gay-marriages-lose-tax-exempt-status/681742/192 "2014-02-24T19:34:03Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Um, because it is? > > It’s weird to say “hey, the idea that living together is a sin is so outdated! Now, please marry me according to this ancient ritual in your very very old religion.” That’s the participants’ discretion. Nobody is _forcing_ them to get married according to the dictates of a very old religion. ---
**Author:** ![PhiloVance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@PhiloVance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhiloVance)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-churches-that-refuse-to-perform-gay-marriages-lose-tax-exempt-status/681742/193 "2014-02-24T19:37:40Z")
I know it’s framed as a question, but this is more like a poll. Pretty worthless. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-churches-that-refuse-to-perform-gay-marriages-lose-tax-exempt-status/681742/194 "2014-02-24T19:40:03Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > That’s the participants’ discretion. Nobody is _forcing_ them to get married according to the dictates of a very old religion. That’s my point too. Why get mad about it because it’s “old-fashioned” when you want to do an old-fashioned thing in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-churches-that-refuse-to-perform-gay-marriages-lose-tax-exempt-status/681742/195 "2014-02-24T20:01:42Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Um, because it is? > > It’s weird to say “hey, the idea that living together is a sin is so outdated! Now, please marry me according to this ancient ritual in your very very old religion.” So, if you think one old idea is no longer useful, you must, perforce, believe all old ideas are no longer useful? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-churches-that-refuse-to-perform-gay-marriages-lose-tax-exempt-status/681742/196 "2014-02-24T20:28:34Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > So, if you think one old idea is no longer useful, you must, perforce, believe all old ideas are no longer useful? No, I said it’s kind of silly to complain about one idea as being old-fashioned but insist on preserving others. How is a Catholic marriage useful? Especially if you don’t even think it’s a problem to just live together anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-churches-that-refuse-to-perform-gay-marriages-lose-tax-exempt-status/681742/197 "2014-02-24T21:21:24Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > No, I said it’s kind of silly to complain about one idea as being old-fashioned but insist on preserving others. How is that different from what I just said? > [@](#): > > How is a Catholic marriage useful? Especially if you don’t even think it’s a problem to just live together anyway? Well, in addition to all the ways that any marriage is useful, I suspect a Catholic marriage would be of particular use to Catholics who feel that it’s important to solemnize their relationship in the eyes of their God. I’m not clear on how an individual Catholic’s view on the appropriateness of living together beforehand enters into it. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-churches-that-refuse-to-perform-gay-marriages-lose-tax-exempt-status/681742/198 "2014-02-24T21:25:57Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > How is that different from what I just said? I don’t know. > [@](#): > > Well, in addition to all the ways that any marriage is useful, I suspect a Catholic marriage would be of particular use to Catholics who feel that it’s important to solemnize their relationship in the eyes of their God. I’m not clear on how an individual Catholic’s view on the appropriateness of living together beforehand enters into it. That’s just it - why would one think it’s important to solemnize their relationship in the eyes of their God immediately after living together without doing so? A change of heart? And then why be shocked that a preist wouldn’t go along with it? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-churches-that-refuse-to-perform-gay-marriages-lose-tax-exempt-status/681742/199 "2014-02-24T22:31:48Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > I don’t know. Oookay. > [@](#): > > That’s just it - why would one think it’s important to solemnize their relationship in the eyes of their God immediately after living together without doing so? Because some people see living together as an intermediary step before getting married. Some of these people happen to be Catholics. Is this genuinely something you didn’t know? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-churches-that-refuse-to-perform-gay-marriages-lose-tax-exempt-status/681742/200 "2014-02-24T22:53:48Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Because some people see living together as an intermediary step before getting married. Some of these people happen to be Catholics. > > Is this genuinely something you didn’t know? Of course I know it. What I don’t understand is why they care so much about getting a Catholic wedding after spending time flouting Catholic beliefs regarding marriage and sex. You don’t see the incongruity? You don’t see why a priest might balk at someone expecting to get what they want out of the church but without living up to its demands? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-churches-that-refuse-to-perform-gay-marriages-lose-tax-exempt-status/681742/201 "2014-02-24T23:08:42Z")
No, I don’t see the incongruity. Presumably, they see a lot of value in much of the Catholic conception of marriage. Except for the part about not living together before hand. Again, just because you reject one old idea, doesn’t mean you must reject all old ideas. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-churches-that-refuse-to-perform-gay-marriages-lose-tax-exempt-status/681742.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-churches-that-refuse-to-perform-gay-marriages-lose-tax-exempt-status/681742.md?page=11)