# Should Clinton Reject and Denounce Geraldine Ferraro? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 11, 2008, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033 "2008-03-11T23:14:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/41 "2008-03-12T14:49:57Z")
Doesn’t Obama have the most Union Endorsements? Teamster’s Etc… ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/42 "2008-03-12T14:53:30Z")
[QUOTE=Phlosphr] Doesn’t Obama have the most Union Endorsements? Teamster’s Etc… [/QUOTE] The steelworkers and miners endorsed Edwards. It represents 1.2M workers, and is the single largest private industrial union in the country. ---
**Author:** ![tds1273](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/df705f/32.png) [@tds1273](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tds1273)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/43 "2008-03-12T18:26:30Z")
For those that are interested, on Countdown tonight, Keith Olbermann will be doing one of his famous ‘Special Comments’ on the Clinton campaign and Ferraro. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/44 "2008-03-12T20:38:47Z")
Hatchetwoman is apt. She is not doing this as anything other than part of the campaign. It is a calculated means of revving up a segment of the base in Pennsylvania. **Hentor** , if you are reading, this kind of stuff almost makes me think of McCain as a lesser evil again. Almost. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/45 "2008-03-12T22:14:14Z")
[There’s no mistaking this for an apology.](http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/12/ferraro.comments/index.html) > [@](#): > > “I am stepping down from your finance committee so I can speak for myself and you can continue to speak for yourself about what is at stake in this campaign,” Ferraro wrote in a letter to Clinton. “The Obama campaign is attacking me to hurt you. I won’t let that happen.” What a pair of totally clueless and classless bitches. Obama’s spokesman says one word and she’s out that day. Ferraro takes shots at Obama on three occasions and then quits the campaign so that she can attack some more without reflecting on Hillary. ---
**Author:** ![Paper\_Pusher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9adbd/32.png) [@Paper\_Pusher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paper_Pusher)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/46 "2008-03-12T23:56:19Z")
[QUOTE=Phlosphr] I’m not disagreeing, but would you mind explaining how this helps Hillary? Even if I wasn’t a Barak supporter I would find these antics sort of appauling, and I wouldn’t be any more likely to vote Hillary that’s for sure. [/QUOTE] After Ferraro’s comments, you would think that Obama is winning based on some form of media affirmative action and some sort of freaky collective guilt trip. Race based affirmative action really ticks off a lot of white people. And as we saw in Mississippi, whites are now breaking sharply for Hillary Clinton (then again it is Mississippi). All this would be clearer to you if you were more racist. It was pretty clear to me because I grew up around enough racism that a lot of it rubbed off on me. Admitting the problem is the first step. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/47 "2008-03-13T01:49:28Z")
I can’t believe anyone thinks any of this was accidental. This is about a calculated a smear job as I’ve ever seen in a political campaign, and certainly the most openly racist since Willie Horton (and maybe even more so; at least Horton wasn’t actually the guy running for President.) Ferraro’s initial comment was planned, and her followup comment was also planned. Likely scripted, in fact. It was really quite nicely done; she appears from the shadows, portrays Obama as an uppity nigger, and then resigns, all within a few days. Most people probably weren’t even conscious of Ferraro being in the Clinton camp, and by having her immediately fall on her sword, Clinton can easily distance herself from the old racist. It’s not an accident this happened during the long runup to Pennsylvania. Clinton’s campaign is appealing to working-class racism, pure and simple. It’s quite deliberate, was planned to happen exactly as it did, and will likely have the desired effect. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/48 "2008-03-13T02:56:05Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Oh, and repudiate, don’t forget repudiate! I wouldn’t mind if she self-defenestrated too, thus saving Mr. Obama a few hundred “screaming bitch” headaches. He’ll need to be of sound mind on the day of his inaugaration. > [@RickJay](#): > > It’s not an accident this happened during the long runup to Pennsylvania. Clinton’s campaign is appealing to working-class racism, pure and simple. It’s quite deliberate, was planned to happen exactly as it did, and will likely have the desired effect. You make a compelling argument, and the fact that Hillary apparently has no intention of repudiating the statement before the Pennsylvania primary is pretty telling as well. To see someone who clearly isn’t afraid of screaming whatever she’s thinking at the top of her lungs suddenly become nebulous–well, there aren’t many other possibilities, are there? ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/49 "2008-03-13T03:18:15Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] I can’t believe anyone thinks any of this was accidental. This is about a calculated a smear job as I’ve ever seen in a political campaign, and certainly the most openly racist since Willie Horton (and maybe even more so; at least Horton wasn’t actually the guy running for President.) Ferraro’s initial comment was planned, and her followup comment was also planned. Likely scripted, in fact. It was really quite nicely done; she appears from the shadows, portrays Obama as an uppity nigger, and then resigns, all within a few days. Most people probably weren’t even conscious of Ferraro being in the Clinton camp, and by having her immediately fall on her sword, Clinton can easily distance herself from the old racist. It’s not an accident this happened during the long runup to Pennsylvania. Clinton’s campaign is appealing to working-class racism, pure and simple. It’s quite deliberate, was planned to happen exactly as it did, and will likely have the desired effect. [/QUOTE] That’s an interesting comment. I can’t wait to hear Obama’s response, if there is one thing in this campaign season that gives me great pleasure, is that Obama is just as calculating as Hillary, and his pure ability to stay above the fray when - quite frankly - a lot of others couldn’t shows ability in my eyes. I think Obama is ready to take the Pepsi Challenge against Darth Clinton - he’s brought it everytime before… ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/50 "2008-03-13T04:02:44Z")
Now, after letting it fester for two days, [Clinton apologizes.](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080313/ap_on_el_pr/clinton_s_apologies_6;_ylt=AiH4Voy7r4JU2InffOs8RhAL1vAI) > [@](#): > > I certainly do repudiate it and I regret deeply that it was said. Obviously she doesn’t speak for the campaign, she doesn’t speak for any of my positions, and she has resigned from being a member of my very large finance committee. Obviously? Riiiight. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/51 "2008-03-13T04:13:27Z")
[QUOTE=DSeid] Now, after letting it fester for two days, [Clinton apologizes.](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080313/ap_on_el_pr/clinton_s_apologies_6;_ylt=AiH4Voy7r4JU2InffOs8RhAL1vAI) Obviously? Riiiight. :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] Too late. She let the shit snowball for 3 days when she should have nipped it in the bud immediately. Now every word of it sounds hollow. ---
**Author:** ![rikc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c57346/32.png) [@rikc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rikc)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/52 "2008-03-13T04:25:59Z")
[QUOTE=Shayna] Too late. She let the shit snowball for 3 days when she should have nipped it in the bud immediately. Now every word of it sounds hollow. [/QUOTE] More than that, _now_ she decides to address the statements that Bill made about SC? Good to know that even her apologies are being saved up as last-ditch “emotion” cards. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/53 "2008-03-13T04:26:03Z")
Every word of it would’ve sounded hollow anyway. A Clinton, apparently, couldn’t sell a lie to a blind and deaf 10-year-old. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/54 "2008-03-13T04:30:35Z")
“…my very large finance committee…” = “Much too large for me to keep track of everything they do or say, so you can’t possibly hold me responsible for this.” Right. ---
**Author:** ![Jolly\_Roger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@Jolly\_Roger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jolly_Roger)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/55 "2008-03-13T07:21:49Z")
[QUOTE=Shayna] Too late. She let the shit snowball for 3 days when she should have nipped it in the bud immediately. Now every word of it sounds hollow. [/QUOTE] Thats because **Rickjay** was right. Its calculated. I’ll bet you a klondike bar that someone told HRC “The Ferrarro thing isn’t getting us any traction…the voters are kind of pissed overall at the racism thing. We’ll have to spin this. Apologize so it doesn’t hurt us. Too bad…I thought “Operation: smear the Brother” had a good chance!”. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/56 "2008-03-13T11:04:31Z")
One thing I haven’t seen that I was hoping to see debated is how responsible the candidates actually are over the actions of their surrogates. Holding Clinton responsible for Ferraro’s remarks is the same as holding Obama responsible for the “monster” comment. How much control/responsibility do they actually have? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/57 "2008-03-13T11:22:31Z")
The campaigns are large organizations and you can’t control what your surrogates say. But you can draw a line and say if you step over it, you’re gone. Obama made it clear that the monster comment was over the line and the offender was gone the next day. Clinton has made it clear that there is no line. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/58 "2008-03-13T12:21:52Z")
[QUOTE=BobLibDem] The campaigns are large organizations and you can’t control what your surrogates say. But you can draw a line and say if you step over it, you’re gone. Obama made it clear that the monster comment was over the line and the offender was gone the next day. Clinton has made it clear that there is no line. [/QUOTE] She doesn’t exactly appear stately does she? This is in my opinion one of her biggest liabilities… ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/59 "2008-03-13T12:30:25Z")
[QUOTE=Phlosphr] She doesn’t exactly appear stately does she? This is in my opinion one of her biggest liabilities… [/QUOTE] To me, it’s more of a “Jesus Christ, if these pobes won’t shut the hell up I guess I’ll have to do something.” As someone who will still vote for her in November if it’s a choice between her and McCain, she’s sounding more and more Bushie. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/60 "2008-03-13T12:30:52Z")
[QUOTE=Harborwolf] One thing I haven’t seen that I was hoping to see debated is how responsible the candidates actually are over the actions of their surrogates. Holding Clinton responsible for Ferraro’s remarks is the same as holding Obama responsible for the “monster” comment. How much control/responsibility do they actually have? [/QUOTE] A standard was demanded by Clinton that a candidate _reject the support_ of any one who has, even in the past, said objectionable things. Whether or not Clinton is responsible for what Ferraro said, she was obligated to hold herself to the same standard. She did not. Minimally a candidate is responsible for their response to what a member of their team says. Nonresponses or muted responses are effectively endorsements. When an inflammatory comment is made by a surrogate one must ask whether or not it was indeed “just” the individual speaking for themselves or whether the individual was doing the candidates dirty work while allowing the candidate to keep their hands clean. Was the candidate actually responsible for it, even if they didn’t pull the trigger themselves? “Monster” hardly served much dirty work utility and was responded to promptly and clearly. Raising racial divisiveness serves the Clinton campaign’s short-term goals very well and was responded to slowly. Hillary’s slow and weak rebuke of it was consistent with her stating that Obama is not a Muslim “as far as I know.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033.md?page=4)