# Should Clinton Reject and Denounce Geraldine Ferraro? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 11, 2008, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033 "2008-03-11T23:14:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/61 "2008-03-13T12:58:14Z")
One of the bigest things I find disturbing in this whole election process is how divided the democratic party actually is between their two candidates. On the one hand you have Hillary Clinton who by all accounts was way ahead in the middle of last year. She wasn’t really running a campaign as much back then as she was telling everyone why she was so awesome. Then Barak Obama came into the light of being an actual moving force for some democrats and soon moved into first place ahead of Hillary - then to eveyone’s surprise he moved waaaay ahead, surpassing Clinton on all fronts, popular vote, winning states and the most importantly secured delegates. This may seem like small potatoes in the light of the campaigns right now, but deep down in the bowels of the democratic party we were truly not ready for this kind of political affront on the very foundation of the party. People were joyous happy and free and then all hell broke loose because all of a sudden it appeared Clinton may not actually win this thing, that in fact it may go to a young Ilinois Senator with a vision of change. People began voting for him by the millions, some out of love for what he stands for some out of fear for the prospect of a Hillary President. So in comes Fear and Loathing in Washington D.C and all political hell breaks loose - people are scrambling calling names, running ads, slinging mud and frothing at the mouth. Candidates are being dragged through the mud and guts of their lives and everything is being broadcast realtime on every major station. But alas we are divided straight down the middle. We’ve got two capable candidates the problem is both are historical candidates and this country needs to decide which one we are most prepared for. A half black charismatic senator from Illinois or a white femle senator and former first lady? I’m really sad both have been dragged so hardcore through the shit, and I’m sad that it may in fact cost the dems the presidency in the end. But one thing shining the voting public in the face is where exactly our prejudices lie. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/62 "2008-03-13T13:37:22Z")
[QUOTE=DSeid] When an inflammatory comment is made by a surrogate one must ask whether or not it was indeed “just” the individual speaking for themselves or whether the individual was doing the candidates dirty work while allowing the candidate to keep their hands clean. [/quote] That’s a big assumption to make and one that could cut closer to Obama. Samantha Power was a senior advisor to Barack Obama. Geraldine Ferraro was a part of (a very large :rolleyes: ) finance committee. > [@](#): > > “Monster” hardly served much dirty work utility and was responded to promptly and clearly. Raising racial divisiveness serves the Clinton campaign’s short-term goals very well and was responded to slowly. Hillary’s slow and weak rebuke of it was consistent with her stating that Obama is not a Muslim “as far as I know.” But it could backfire in the long term and the next primary isn’t for a few more weeks. I suppose that’s lucky for Hillary, as the media will have moved on to the next short attention span story by then. Still, I can’t help but see this doing more harm than good. Regardless of the comment, Hillary’s response was slow, and her slow reaction to what could be regarded as a much worse comment by a member of her campaign makes Obama’s rapid response to a lesser comment look better by comparison. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/63 "2008-03-13T13:44:20Z")
What, **Phlosphr** , you think that previous Democratic nomination processes have been all sweetness and light? Nah. Bitter attacks are an established tradition. Hillary is to some degree right when she recalls Bill’s [first run.](http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/archives/1992/9202280052.asp) After the new guy bringing a message of “hope” emerged as the favoritie, some of the base began to question it and negative campaigning ensued. With worries about how it would harm the party in the Fall. Of course it was more the Clinton team throwing the mud, but still. > [@](#): > > A sunny Seattle afternoon yesterday featured some of the darkest, toughest words yet exchanged in the Democratic presidential race as the campaign heads toward make-or-break primaries and caucuses in seven states. > > Former Massachusetts Sen. Paul Tsongas said there is `a very real danger" the combat will harm his party in a fall campaign against President Bush. But Tsongas himself lashed back at Arkansas Gov. Bill Clinton for calling Tsongas' economic policies `cold-blooded." > > `I just crossed the line," Tsongas said in Seattle. He questioned Clinton's ability to stay `cool under fire" after Clinton reacted angrily to a report that the Rev. Jesse Jackson was about to endorse one of his opponents. > > Ex-California Gov. Jerry Brown, campaigning in three Washington cities, denounced Democratic opponents as captives of special interests and agents of the status quo. `If you like it the way it is, you vote for Tsongas, Clinton or the others," `For those candidates who don’t have a clear message, and no legs on which to stand, the temptation is to tear down the other candidate," said Tsongas. Going negative and playing “us vs them” (with constant shift of who is “us” and who is “them”) is part of the standard Clinton playbook from the early days and it has worked before. This current episode is just a textbook example. Have your surrogate to go more negative for you than you dare yourself. Distance yourself, mainly in front of the crowd that is insulted (she was talking to a predominately Black group yesterday) but stay muted in front of the audience that the mud resonates with. (You will not hear her “repudiation” in front of blue collar workers in Pennsylvania, I assure you.) Control the message of the day. Reacting to it will not accomplish much. Obama needs to regain control of the narrative: “Clinton is business as usual: double-talk and divisiveness. Her campaign is based on creating us vs thems. A couple of big states vs all the other states. White vs Black. And as President she will stay mired in it: Democrats vs Republicans. The United States vs the world? We need to get things done! We need a President of all the states of all the people who can work across the aisle and work with the world to address the serious problems we all face together.” He needs to define what his Presidency will look like. ---
**Author:** ![Keweenaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Keweenaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keweenaw)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/64 "2008-03-13T13:54:51Z")
[QUOTE=Phlosphr] One of the bigest things I find disturbing in this whole election process is how divided the democratic party actually is between their two candidates. [/QUOTE] Clinton did say this yesterday in the midst of her apologies. [QUOTE=Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton] “Once one of us has the nomination there will be a great effort to unify the Democratic party and we will do so, because, remember I have a lot of supporters who have voted for me in very large numbers and I would expect them to support Senator Obama if he were the nominee,” [/QUOTE] It’s the frothy I Hillary-Hate I read that disturbs me. Much of it from Obama supporters that claim that they are not actual Democrats, just for Obama. You can’t look at the Mississippi numbers and think that race isn’t a factor in some peoples decisions. MLK’s dream hasn’t quite arrived yet. Ferraro is basically claiming it’s the main factor in his success. Or implying even more disturbingly that it’s the only factor. I don’t agree. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/65 "2008-03-13T13:58:03Z")
[QUOTE=DSeid] A standard was demanded by Clinton that a candidate _reject the support_ of any one who has, even in the past, said objectionable things. Whether or not Clinton is responsible for what Ferraro said, she was obligated to hold herself to the same standard. She did not. Minimally a candidate is responsible for their response to what a member of their team says. [/quote] Yup. Hillary painted herself in a corner with the whole denounce and reject thing. If she was a smarter politician, she would have known that by making a big deal over Farakkhan’s statements, she would be opening herself for charges of hypocrisy later on. She’s never going to be able to get away from this kind of game now, and she can’t even blame it on her rival. And apologizing for Bill after how many weeks now? That’s like putting a tourniquet on a dead man’s arm. If delayed apologies are in order, how about we get one for the Iraq war? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/66 "2008-03-13T14:10:38Z")
[**Keith Olbermann: Special Comment on Hillary Clinton**](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXBXD2zizIY) Telling it as it is. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/67 "2008-03-13T14:14:49Z")
[QUOTE=Keweenaw] It’s the frothy I Hillary-Hate I read that disturbs me. Much of it from Obama supporters that claim that they are not actual Democrats, just for Obama. . [/QUOTE] Read any of the blogs on any of th news stations and tell me it’s the Obama supporters frothing at Hillary. I haven’t seen more putrid hate flung at someone in a while. He’s Muslim Terrorist, He’s a sleeper cell terrorist, keep that nigger out of a white house etc…etc… It’s disgusting. I can’t wait to see their face when he’s being sworn in. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/68 "2008-03-13T14:21:54Z")
[QUOTE=DSeid] What, **Phlosphr** , you think that previous Democratic nomination processes have been all sweetness and light? Nah. Bitter attacks are an established tradition. Hillary is to some degree right when she recalls Bill’s [first run.](http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/archives/1992/9202280052.asp) After the new guy bringing a message of “hope” emerged as the favoritie, some of the base began to question it and negative campaigning ensued. With worries about how it would harm the party in the Fall. Of course it was more the Clinton team throwing the mud, but still.Going negative and playing “us vs them” (with constant shift of who is “us” and who is “them”) is part of the standard Clinton playbook from the early days and it has worked before. This current episode is just a textbook example. Have your surrogate to go more negative for you than you dare yourself. Distance yourself, mainly in front of the crowd that is insulted (she was talking to a predominately Black group yesterday) but stay muted in front of the audience that the mud resonates with. (You will not hear her “repudiation” in front of blue collar workers in Pennsylvania, I assure you.) Control the message of the day. . [/QUOTE] I’m trying not to simply ride on blind faith. Obviously people like Obama at least a little bit more than Clinton. Barring a Howard Dean moment or some call girls I don’t see him losing this nomination to HRC. All dynasty’s have to have an end right? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/69 "2008-03-13T14:30:17Z")
**Keweenaw** , that statement is exactly what Team Clinton banks on - the ever changing definition of who is us and who is them. Divide this way now - me against my brother - having every confidence that the family will be united against the infidel. That as much as people like me dislike Hillary’s tactics, that we will still find her less objectionable than a Republican. As a calculated risk it is a good bet for her, no chance at the Presidency vs a very small one with the only downside being potentially seriously wounding the Democratic party for years to come (but not particularly her). It is a particular worldview and it follows through into the general. Win the usual blue states and take just one purple one. Obama really does represent a different view of the political landscape. Just as he represents a more multilateral view of world affairs, he represents a more multilateral take national governance. One that paradoxically can increase the power of Democratic ideals by being a bit less partisanly Democratic. Put some traditional blue states into play. **Phlosphr** , oh I don’t mean to say you have blind faith. Clinton’s sale to the supers is a hard one and is one that supposes that they bank a lot on the redefining of “us” and “them” too. She needs to convince a lot of them of that and I don’t think she will. Her game is to play negative enough to take Pennsylvania solidly without quite pissing off too many supers too much before then and then to make her sale. It is a delicate balance to make while you are throwing crap. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/70 "2008-03-13T15:06:43Z")
[QUOTE=DSeid] **Phlosphr** , oh I don’t mean to say you have blind faith. Clinton’s sale to the supers is a hard one and is one that supposes that they bank a lot on the redefining of “us” and “them” too. She needs to convince a lot of them of that and I don’t think she will. Her game is to play negative enough to take Pennsylvania solidly without quite pissing off too many supers too much before then and then to make her sale. It is a delicate balance to make while you are throwing crap. [/QUOTE] I know what you mean. I’m not sure Clinton taking PA by anything less than 25% would mean much of anything. Part of me thinks she’s going to back out yet, and another thinks she’s going to continue to drag all the way to the convention and hope for a miracle. I just don’t see her on top of the ticket in the end. Obama is too smart to do anything dumb and tenacious enough to keep up with the Clinton Machine. Or better wording may be, Keeping one step infront of the Clinton machine. ---
**Author:** ![Airblairxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Airblairxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airblairxxx)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/71 "2008-03-13T18:14:41Z")
[QUOTE=Phlosphr] One of the bigest things I find disturbing in this whole election process is how divided the democratic party actually is between their two candidates. On the one hand you have Hillary Clinton who by all accounts was way ahead in the middle of last year. She wasn’t really running a campaign as much back then as she was telling everyone why she was so awesome. Then Barak Obama came into the light of being an actual moving force for some democrats and soon moved into first place ahead of Hillary - then to eveyone’s surprise he moved waaaay ahead, surpassing Clinton on all fronts, popular vote, winning states and the most importantly secured delegates. This may seem like small potatoes in the light of the campaigns right now, but deep down in the bowels of the democratic party we were truly not ready for this kind of political affront on the very foundation of the party. People were joyous happy and free and then all hell broke loose because all of a sudden it appeared Clinton may not actually win this thing, that in fact it may go to a young Ilinois Senator with a vision of change. People began voting for him by the millions, some out of love for what he stands for some out of fear for the prospect of a Hillary President. So in comes Fear and Loathing in Washington D.C and all political hell breaks loose - people are scrambling calling names, running ads, slinging mud and frothing at the mouth. Candidates are being dragged through the mud and guts of their lives and everything is being broadcast realtime on every major station. But alas we are divided straight down the middle. We’ve got two capable candidates the problem is both are historical candidates and this country needs to decide which one we are most prepared for. A half black charismatic senator from Illinois or a white femle senator and former first lady? I’m really sad both have been dragged so hardcore through the shit, and I’m sad that it may in fact cost the dems the presidency in the end. But one thing shining the voting public in the face is where exactly our prejudices lie. [/QUOTE] Oh, I dunno. As has been pointed out, this nomination campaign has been basically on par with previous ones. And the key thing is that the party is hardly divided ideologically. There’s really very little daylight between the policies of the two candidates. Let’s wait and see how things turn out in November. ---
**Author:** ![Pashnish\_Ewing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8797f3/32.png) [@Pashnish\_Ewing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pashnish_Ewing)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/72 "2008-03-13T18:24:48Z")
[QUOTE=Keweenaw] You can’t look at the Mississippi numbers and think that race isn’t a factor in some peoples decisions. MLK’s dream hasn’t quite arrived yet. Ferraro is basically claiming it’s the main factor in his success. Or implying even more disturbingly that it’s the only factor. I don’t agree. [/QUOTE] You know, I’m starting to see the evil genius of the Clinton’s plan. Bill makes his borderline racists statements, followed by several other borderline racist incidents from the campaign \>\> Black voters are turned off of the Clintons \>\> Black voters overwhelmingly support Obama \>\> Clinton decrees that black voters are only voting because of race. Damn, they’re good. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/73 "2008-03-13T18:32:25Z")
[QUOTE=Pashnish Ewing] You know, I’m starting to see the evil genius of the Clinton’s plan. Bill makes his borderline racists statements, followed by several other borderline racist incidents from the campaign \>\> Black voters are turned off of the Clintons \>\> Black voters overwhelmingly support Obama \>\> Clinton decrees that black voters are only voting because of race. Damn, they’re good. [/QUOTE] You’re leaving out the most important step: White voters view Obama as “the black candidate” and come out to vote for Hillary. She’s thrown away the black vote to gain the votes of white bigots. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/74 "2008-03-13T18:40:51Z")
[QUOTE=Pashnish Ewing] You know, I’m starting to see the evil genius of the Clinton’s plan. [/QUOTE] There just always has to be an evil genius for some people. I don’t get it. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/75 "2008-03-13T22:25:50Z")
[quote=Harborwolf] Samantha Power was a senior advisor to Barack Obama. Geraldine Ferraro was a part of (a very large ) finance committee./quote] Yet, for some reason, Hillary was really reluctant to sever ties with this apparently unimportant campaign worker, while Mr. Obama had no problem canning a “senior advisor” within hours of her remark. What does that tell you? That Hillary is much more immature and much less willing to hold her people accountable, _at best_. Of the three serious candidates, Mr. Obama is the only one with a shred of professionalism. (Well, OK, McCain’s got a shred, but it’s far outweighed by the heavy vibe of creepy and corrupt that he gives off.) ---
**Author:** ![Paper\_Pusher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9adbd/32.png) [@Paper\_Pusher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paper_Pusher)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/76 "2008-03-13T23:52:20Z")
[QUOTE=Keweenaw] Clinton did say this yesterday in the midst of her apologies. [/QUOTE] The problem is that there is a disconnect between what she says and what she does. She is playing scorched earth politics and she is turning voters away from Obama in a way that will keep them turned off through November. Indeed I think that may be part of the plan, to make Obama as unelectable as possible. She may be pulling a Nancy Kerigan and trying to cripple her opponent so that she will be the only one left who can compete in the Olympics. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2008, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/77 "2008-03-14T00:01:40Z")
[QUOTE=Paper Pusher] She may be pulling a Nancy Kerigan and trying to cripple her opponent so that she will be the only one left who can compete in the Olympics. [/QUOTE] Tonya Harding, you mean. ---
**Author:** ![Paper\_Pusher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9adbd/32.png) [@Paper\_Pusher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paper_Pusher)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2008, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/78 "2008-03-14T00:10:25Z")
Hehe oops. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2008, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/79 "2008-03-14T00:55:22Z")
[QUOTE=Hostile Dialect] Mr. Obama had no problem canning a “senior advisor” within hours of her remark. What does that tell you? That Hillary is much more immature and much less willing to hold her people accountable, _at best_. [/QUOTE] Depends on how much longer it takes him to renounce Rev. Jeremiah Wright’s racism, don’t it? ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2008, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/80 "2008-03-14T01:25:22Z")
[QUOTE=DSeid] Now, after letting it fester for two days, [Clinton apologizes.](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080313/ap_on_el_pr/clinton_s_apologies_6;_ylt=AiH4Voy7r4JU2InffOs8RhAL1vAI) Obviously? Riiiight. :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] While, in [this](http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/13/clinton.black/index.html) report, she also _sort of_ apologized at a black newspaper reporters for this later brouhaha, Bill’s comments in South Carolina, and the Bush admininstration’s response to Hurrican Katrina _almost_ made me think she was blatantly and shamelessly pandering, the following reassured me she was quite sincere: "‘I apologize and I am embarrassed that our federal government so mistreated our citizens.’ **Her aides say this is not a mea culpa tour, but rather a clear message that she has not given up on the black vote**." _Riiiiiiight._ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033.md?page=5)