# Should Clinton Reject and Denounce Geraldine Ferraro? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 11, 2008, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033 "2008-03-11T23:14:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2008, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/101 "2008-03-14T16:31:17Z")
[QUOTE=EddyTeddyFreddy] “…my very large finance committee…” = “Much too large for me to keep track of everything they do or say, so you can’t possibly hold me responsible for this.” [/QUOTE] And “I couldn’t even _begin_ to handle a _really_ large organization, like the executive branch of the United States Government.” ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2008, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/102 "2008-03-14T16:49:39Z")
[QUOTE=Huerta88] (1) The attention Obama has garnered is largely related to his race. So what? The attention HRC has garnered is certainly not unconnected to her sex, nor is the way her candidacy has been parsed (on balance, I think the double standard has helped her – she may well have won NH by calculated weepiness, which no male candidate could (I hope) expect to win him anything but a quick trip back to his home state). [/QUOTE] Perhaps you could add Ed Muskie to that blast-from-the-past endorsement list. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2008, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/103 "2008-03-14T22:50:03Z")
[QUOTE=Phlosphr] He already did **Elvis**. [/quote] You really think "Sen. Obama does not think of the pastor of his church in political terms. Like a member of his family, there are things he says with which Sen. Obama deeply disagrees.” _is adequate_? Keep in mind the standards that so many in this thread are applying to the other candidate before you answer. > [@](#): > > And when does ones religious pastor/reverend/preacher/ etc…etc… dictate what people do in Washington? Where the hell do you get “dictate” from? Is that the same sense in which Ferraro would “dictate” what Clinton would do? Please try to stay intellectually honest here, okay? As for Wright’s significance to Obama, while comparing it to Ferraro’s, [consider](http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/custom/religion/chi-070121-relig_wright,1,271630.story?coll=chi-religion-topheadlines): > [@](#): > > Obama says that rather than advising him on strategy, Wright helps keep his priorities straight and his moral compass calibrated. > > “What I value most about Pastor Wright is not his day-to-day political advice,” Obama said. “He’s much more of a sounding board for me to make sure that I am speaking as truthfully about what I believe as possible and that I’m not losing myself in some of the hype and hoopla and stress that’s involved in national politics.” > … > > Later he would base his 2004 keynote speech to the Democratic National Convention on a Wright sermon called “Audacity to Hope,” --also the inspiration for Obama’s second memoir, “The Audacity of Hope.” > > Though Wright and Obama do not often talk one-on-one often, the senator does check with his pastor before making any bold political moves. Yes, fairly or not (not that fairness has anything to do with this thread), [it matters](http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article3555561.ece). Given his relationship with Wright, he needs a much better answer than “I disagree” to something like this: > [@](#): > > In another sermon he said the Government “wants us to sing God Bless America” despite treating black people as second-class citizens. “No, no, no,” said Mr Wright, “God damn America!” > > More recently, he has said that Mr Obama “knows what it means living in a country and a culture that is controlled by rich white people — Hillary would never know that, Hillary ain’t never been called a nigger.” So how comfortable are you that you’ve appropriately judged both situations? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2008, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/104 "2008-03-14T23:29:17Z")
[Original source material](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKpCH7OS2nc). Another fine example of projecting, like so many we’ve seen lately - a hate-filled rant claiming that the \*target \* of the rant is the real hater, and the hater (and its target audience) is actually loving. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2008, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/105 "2008-03-15T00:07:36Z")
And how has Obama [responded](http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/)? > [@](#): > > I vehemently disagree and strongly condemn the statements that have been the subject of this controversy … I categorically denounce any statement that disparages our great country or serves to divide us from our allies, … I also believe that words that degrade individuals have no place in our public dialogue, whether it’s on the campaign stump or in the pulpit. In sum, I reject outright the statements by Rev. Wright that are at issue I think that is a clear response and not one that took three days. Yes, I think that is adequate. Clinton has made no similarly clear response. As to the rest. Y’know my Dad was a bit of a racist at times. But I still loved him and respected his opinions on a wide variety of other subjects. His advice was often helpful to me and I miss him. I’ve had Rabbis with political POVs that I strongly disagree with. There were still other things they’ve said that were of value. My brother and I often disagree (he’s a med-mal lawyer and I’m a doctor, he liked Clinton even!) These are relationships from which we can take what we consider worthwhile and politely ignore the rest. They are not my representatives. It is a difference of significance. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2008, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/106 "2008-03-15T00:14:03Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] You really think "Sen. Obama does not think of the pastor of his church in political terms. Like a member of his family, there are things he says with which Sen. Obama deeply disagrees.” _is adequate_? Keep in mind the standards that so many in this thread are applying to the other candidate before you answer. Where the hell do you get “dictate” from? Is that the same sense in which Ferraro would “dictate” what Clinton would do? Please try to stay intellectually honest here, okay? As for Wright’s significance to Obama, while comparing it to Ferraro’s, [consider](http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/custom/religion/chi-070121-relig_wright,1,271630.story?coll=chi-religion-topheadlines):Yes, fairly or not (not that fairness has anything to do with this thread), [it matters](http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article3555561.ece). Given his relationship with Wright, he needs a much better answer than “I disagree” to something like this: So how comfortable are you that you’ve appropriately judged both situations? [/QUOTE] I just finished reading Obama’s comments on [Huff Post](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barack-obama/on-my-faith-and-my-church_b_91623.html) > [@](#): > > Let me say at the outset that I vehemently disagree and strongly condemn the statements that have been the subject of this controversy. I categorically denounce any statement that disparages our great country or serves to divide us from our allies. I also believe that words that degrade individuals have no place in our public dialogue, whether it’s on the campaign stump or in the pulpit. In sum, I reject outright the statements by Rev. Wright that are at issue. > [@](#): > > When these statements first came to my attention, it was at the beginning of my presidential campaign. I made it clear at the time that I strongly condemned his comments. But because Rev. Wright was on the verge of retirement, and because of my strong links to the Trinity faith community, where I married my wife and where my daughters were baptized, I did not think it appropriate to leave the church. > > Let me repeat what I’ve said earlier. All of the statements that have been the subject of controversy are ones that I vehemently condemn. They in no way reflect my attitudes and directly contradict my profound love for this country. > [@](#): > > And while Rev. Wright’s statements have pained and angered me, I believe that Americans will judge me not on the basis of what someone else said better? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2008, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/107 "2008-03-15T00:23:24Z")
Sure is. How do you think it _compares_, though? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2008, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/108 "2008-03-15T00:33:46Z")
Hmmm. Clinton initially disagreed and later repudiated and deeply regretted that hateful comments by an official representative of her campaign were said. Obama vehemently disagrees, strongly condemns, categorically denounces, and rejects outright the words of someone who does not represent him or his beliefs. How do _you_ think it compares? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2008, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/109 "2008-03-15T01:01:30Z")
“Someone who does not represent him”, under the circumstances of Obama’s life, involves a bit of handwaving, especially if one wants Ferraro’s status as Clinton’s “official representative” (which takes quite a bit more handwaving) to be considered categorically more significant. Or, for that matter, if one needs Ferraro’s and Wright’s comments to be considered similarly hateful and ignorant. But neither your opinion nor mine really matters. We only have 2 votes between us anyway. How do you think it compares out in the world of the presidential campaign? To the undecided or the persuadable, how does it look? Does Obama still look above such things? Does he look different from the usual politician? Does he look superior as a candidate in any meaningful way? ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2008, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/110 "2008-03-15T02:43:02Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] “Someone who does not represent him”, under the circumstances of Obama’s life, involves a bit of handwaving, especially if one wants Ferraro’s status as Clinton’s “official representative” (which takes quite a bit more handwaving) to be considered categorically more significant. Or, for that matter, if one needs Ferraro’s and Wright’s comments to be considered similarly hateful and ignorant. But neither your opinion nor mine really matters. We only have 2 votes between us anyway. How do you think it compares out in the world of the presidential campaign? To the undecided or the persuadable, how does it look? Does Obama still look above such things? Does he look different from the usual politician? Does he look superior as a candidate in any meaningful way? [/QUOTE] He looks a bit like the man I voted for on March 4th, and a little like the man I’ll see putting his hand on a bible whilst getting inaugurated. Politician? Oh hell yes, a very good one. Superior? To who, Clinton? Yes, of course I think he is, thats why I am voting and campaigning for the man, that’s why more people are voting for him than they are voting for Clinton, that’s not about to change suddenly. This isn’t blind faith, people are going to see a lot in the next 5 weeks. From all points. ---
**Author:** ![JohnnieEnigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dfb087/32.png) [@JohnnieEnigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnnieEnigma)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2008, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/111 "2008-03-16T00:56:09Z")
[QUOTE=Paper Pusher] [http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/03/11/757137.aspx](http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/03/11/757137.aspx) So… is it just me or are Clinton supporters ridiculously frustrated and bitter? At what point can we say that Clinton is ready to go down fighting and is happy to take down the party with her? [/QUOTE] I think clinton put geraldine up to this. did I already post this in here? If so, I apologize… it’s just that it needs repeating. This was all the clinton camps doing. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2008, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/112 "2008-03-16T02:01:05Z")
Got any actual basis for that statement? (It does \*not \* “need repeating” if you don’t, btw) ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2008, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/113 "2008-03-16T02:09:15Z")
[QUOTE=Phlosphr] He looks a bit like the man I voted for on March 4th, and a little like the man I’ll see putting his hand on a bible whilst getting inaugurated. Politician? Oh hell yes, a very good one. Superior? To who, Clinton? Yes, of course I think he is, thats why I am voting and campaigning for the man, that’s why more people are voting for him than they are voting for Clinton, that’s not about to change suddenly. This isn’t blind faith, people are going to see a lot in the next 5 weeks. From all points. [/QUOTE] [According to this diary at Daily Kos](http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/3/15/203514/051/358/477634) there’s lots of good stuff already. Rezko, Wright, all the negatives that have cascaded over him – he’s turned them all around and, as the diarist asserts: > [@](#): > > he has shown his ability to take that which would be poison to anyone else, turn it around, and use it to unite our forces. Whereas less adept and more cynical politicians like Bush or Clinton would use these kinds of situations to dig in their heels to protect the constituency they’ve got, Obama sees this adversity as an opportunity to expand his constituency and continue to build the broad coalition he will need to enact his vision for the country. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2008, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/114 "2008-03-16T02:10:34Z")
He’s turned them around, you say? Has that shown up in the polls yet? ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2008, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/115 "2008-03-16T02:17:00Z")
YOo really have a thing for contentless disingenuity, doncha? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2008, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/116 "2008-03-16T02:23:03Z")
I am opposed to it, yes, and do try to point it out when I see it, as in your fact-free feel-good post above. That’s partly what this board is _for_, you know. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2008, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/117 "2008-03-16T02:28:17Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] He’s turned them around, you say? Has that shown up in the polls yet? [/QUOTE] Would [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9581243&postcount=244) be a yes? > [@](#): > > I am opposed to it, yes, and do try to point it out when I see it, as in your fact-free feel-good post above. Apparently only when other people do it. What do you call it when you do it? ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2008, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/118 "2008-03-16T02:51:43Z")
[QUOTE=EddyTeddyFreddy] [According to this diary at Daily Kos](http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/3/15/203514/051/358/477634) there’s lots of good stuff already. [/QUOTE] [Here’s the video of the speech the diarist speaks of](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FsqDTVmlKk) Good, solid response. I think he’s going to pull through this. This is far, far better handling of a political crisis than anything we saw from Gore or Kerry. ---
**Author:** ![9thFloor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/9/b487fb/32.png) [@9thFloor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/9thFloor)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2008, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/119 "2008-03-16T05:49:31Z")
[QUOTE=Anomalous Reading] It is, in some way, a fair point. When race baiting has happened, she’s denounced what was said, but seldom with the amount of force I’d want to see from a person who honestly believes it was wrong. I apply the same standard to both sides and was impressed and relieved with Obama rejected and denounced the Farrakan’s endorsement. [/QUOTE] That’s because she doesn’t necessarily believe it’s race baiting. What would be the non-race-baiting way of making the point that Obama’s popularity is due to his being a novelty act that uses race? Not that you’d agree with that assertion, but if it is in fact a point that one wants to assert how is that supposed to be done? The answer, it seems, is that the point can’t be made. That’s race baiting. Which is really convenient for Obama if in fact that IS true since it can’t be said without being charged with racism. THAT setup is what’s race baiting. Racism in Obama campaign: “As soon as anybody makes a point having anything to do with race, I’ll smear you as a racist and a race baiting candidate after tacitly acknowledging that you may have a point maybe if that’s what it takes to make me look reasonable as I proceed to speak out of all three sides of my mouth…\” Ferraro’s follow up interview, after all, explictly asserted that whenever anybody brings up any critiques racism is screeched. Was she wrong? Crying wolf on race baiting is racist, cynical, and breathtakingly brazen (like, I don’t know, trying to channel MLK’s style). ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2008, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033/120 "2008-03-16T06:07:50Z")
[QUOTE=9thFloor] Racism in Obama campaign: “As soon as anybody makes a point having anything to do with race, I’ll smear you as a racist and a race baiting candidate after tacitly acknowledging that you may have a point maybe if that’s what it takes to make me look reasonable as I proceed to speak out of all three sides of my mouth…\” [/quote] Well, except for the fact that that’s patently false. > [@Barack Obama](#): > > I think, with respect to Geraldine Ferraro, I don’t think what she said was racist, and I was asked about this and I said I didn’t think that was what it was. > > [http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/chi-obamafullwebmar16,0,6442594,print.story](http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/chi-obamafullwebmar16,0,6442594,print.story) > [@9thFloor](#): > > Ferraro’s follow up interview, after all, explictly asserted that whenever anybody brings up any critiques racism is screeched. Was she wrong? Yes. Demonstrably so. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-clinton-reject-and-denounce-geraldine-ferraro/441033.md?page=7)