Yes, Hillary is a female senator married to a popular former president who voted to authorize the invasion of Iraq who is willing to destroy the Democratic party to get the nomination because her presidency is just too important, even if it means possibly handing the Republicans the White House again in 2008.
Obama is a black male senator who spoke out against the war when it was impolitic to do so. He is a perfect candidate except that his opponent is the Tonya Harding of the Democratic party and his pastor is a whacko.
I agree with your last paragraph (which are, after all, facts) except that I’d say it went to Obama in SC when Obama’s campaign played the race card in preparation for super duper tuesday, not the Clinton campaign.
I believe it is Obama’s candidacy that is destroying the Democratic party, not Hillary who was the presumptive nominee in the first place. He spoke out against the war because it served his purposes at the time to help get him elected. Then he changed course once in office and said his position on the war vs. Bush’s were pretty much the same, and then voted to fund the war 100% of the time once in office.
That doesn’t make him slime, in my book, it just makes him a politician like all others. The fact that he claims not to be is rather rich, though.
Did I say that? Go find where I said that, or put a sock in it. Speaking of lies, is it possible for you to go for one entire post without distorting something into a horrendously fallacious black-and-white bastardization of itself?
Uh- at the time Obama spoke out against the war, the war was overwhelmingly popular with the voters. Going against 75% of the people is hardly an effective campaign strategy. Votes to keep funding are a necessity once they are in combat, no matter how stupidly they were deployed in the first place. Just because you opposed their deployment doesn’t mean you want to stop feeding and arming them once they’re over there. Compare that to Hillary who cast the vote without reading the intelligence solely because she thought it would make her look tough for her current campaign.
Did I say you said that? Go find where I said you said that, or put a sock in it. Speaking of lies, is it possible for you to go for one entire post without distorting something into a horrendously fallacious black-and-white bastardization of itself?
It’s too bad there’s so much personal attacking going on here. “Put a sock in it,” indeed. LOL
Exactly how did speaking out against popular opinion from both parties help get him elected? IMO that kind of honesty and conviction was more risky than going along with the masses.
I don’t agree but these are legitimate arguable points. The one above I don’t get at all.
I agree that Obama is a politician and swayed and influenced by political pressures and interests of his own career like as we might expect from a normal human. I think his opponents and even his supporters are elevating his points about political change to a place he didn’t intend. When looked at in unrealistic terms it’s easy to find fault and contradiction. Yes he’s far from perfect. Do we have a choice for president that’s not?
Saying “I’m an honest person” does not equal “I never lie or contradict myself” in an absolute sense. It can mean I value honesty and I strive to be honest even though I recognize I’m not always successful. That’s a realistic view of a human being.
However, IMO the Philly speech shows he is at least a little different than most of the others. It took more courage and an intellectual and emotional grasp of the nuances involved on both sides of the argument to write and deliver such a speech than we’ve seen from most politicians.
btw; I also applauded Ron Paul for his honesty several times.
I don’t believe it was popular among the constituency that he was expecting to support him. Apparently, he was right. He got elected.
I agree that voting to fund the war is not the same thing, though there are those that opposed the war from the beginning that voted not to fund the war. That is a course of action available and one that was taken by some of those that objected.
I compare it to Hillary who met with the author of the intelligence report rather than just reading it, which I think goes beyond and into detail as she likes to do. Implying she was derelict in that regard was one of the earliest examples of Obama going negative and playing politics with the war.
As for whether or not the vote would make her look tough, I can’t say for sure don’t know what was in her mind but I’d concede that may have figured in for all I know. Likewise, I think Obama’s opposition was to make him look tough (the courageous voice speaking out, blah, blah) for his successful Senate run.
Do you have even a minor example of any evidence that brought you to that conclusion that you might link to? Any examples of Illinois voters being by and large against the war at that time?
I don’t believe the Obama camp brought that information to the publics attention first but regardless “playing politics with the war” suggests this is not a legitimate concern or criticism against Clinton. It certainly is by any stretch of the imagination. You may accept her explanation but it’s a legitimate concern for Obama’s camp to point out in a campaign. Pointing out a legitimate concern is not going negative.
Hillary pointing out Obama’s inexperience is a legitimate point , not going negative. They are both examples of legitimate questions concerning the two candidates.
In context the request was for you to defend your comment or shut up, which is perfectly acceptable in this forum. We expect people to defend their statements.
Oh yeah, since this is technically still the Ferraro thread here’s this from today:
“To equate what I said with what this racist bigot has said from the pulpit is unbelievable,” Ferraro told the Daily Breeze newspaper an interview published late Wednesday night."
Done! He accused me of lying and I just quoted him back to himself for doing so and then said I’d drop it. I have and I will. My apologies for contributing to it and not just ignoring it in the first place though.