# Should colleges get rid of on campus housing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 18, 2017, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-colleges-get-rid-of-on-campus-housing/796656 "2017-09-18T18:40:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-colleges-get-rid-of-on-campus-housing/796656/21 "2017-09-18T22:29:43Z")
A school’s own disciplinary system is entirely separate from the police and courts, not instead of them. If someone who’s not affiliated with a college commits a rape, then the local police and courts do something about it. If someone who is affiliated with a college commits a rape (whether on or off campus grounds), then the local police and courts do something about it, _and_ the college does something about it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-colleges-get-rid-of-on-campus-housing/796656/22 "2017-09-18T22:35:58Z")
This is a great idea, but let’s not stop there. Think of all the theft we can eliminate if we get rid of stores. Shouldn’t cities get rid of stores? People buy most of their stuff online anyway. We could cut back on the police force and the fire department, too. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-colleges-get-rid-of-on-campus-housing/796656/23 "2017-09-18T22:43:50Z")
> [@nightshadea](#): > > and these days most 4 year colleges make you live on campus themselves …my nephew is going to uc san diego starting this weekend and the freshman cant take their cars (because they wont sell them parking passes and its 200 a week with out one ( > > And also making them live on campus the first year or so the reasoning being that there going to get all the money they can before the normal attrition sets in … UCSD does not make freshmen live on campus. They guarantee housing to 1st n 2nd year students. [https://hdh.ucsd.edu/housing/incoming/pages/](https://hdh.ucsd.edu/housing/incoming/pages/) ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-colleges-get-rid-of-on-campus-housing/796656/24 "2017-09-18T23:11:35Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > If a student believes he’s been denied due process, he can and should take the university to court. There have been a number of such cases lately, at least one of which has gone to federal court. Even when the case does go directly to the police, however, if it involves students enrolled there, the university faces liability issues and will therefore conduct separate proceedings to determine whether or not the alleged perpetrator is to be expelled. The expulsion issue won’t go away just because the campus police aren’t involved. Campuses who don’t expel students face charges from not only the alleged victim but subsequent rape victims as well. > > You haven’t raised this as a concern, but in case it is, the percentage of reported rapes that turn out to be false is about the same as other reported felonies–about 2%. That figure is probably not accurate, however, as only 40% of rape victims report the crime. When you understand the trauma followed by the humiliation, the public scrutiny, the frequent nasty repercussions from friends–and, in the case of athletes, fans of the suspect–it’s not hard to see why. I find it interesting that people are more likely so suspect false reports of rape than they are false reports of robbery, even though the likelihood is about the same. According to the article I quoted above, its not so much false accusations its just that a student on a campus can accuse someone with sexual assault in a broader sense than what would be touched by a regular prosecuting attorney. So a student can be expelled for much less evidence or reason. Yes, they can sue the school and take the matter to another court but who pays for that and how long will it take? Now I perfectly understand why a university should be held responsible for the safety of its students in say the science building. BUT, how can they be held responsible for what happens at a fraternity party or in a dorm where students are already drinking and having sex? ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-colleges-get-rid-of-on-campus-housing/796656/25 "2017-09-18T23:13:13Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > And all that privatizing them would do (which it sounds like is what the OP is suggesting) would be to raise the room-and-board costs for living in the dorms. I’m not so sure about that since most students already move out of dorms into apartments by about their jr year anyways. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-colleges-get-rid-of-on-campus-housing/796656/26 "2017-09-18T23:33:37Z")
The thing to do is educate the young women and men…Women need to know it is safe to report and not be blamed…Men need to know what 'NO means…They are still impressionable at 18 or 19…and of course, a degree if supervision where possible. My college student is a very young 17yr.old…she is living in a co-ed dorm…We paid extra for her to be on the same floor as the R.A…and bought her some pepper spray. So far it seems that her floor is the quiet one in the building…But, I worry everyday for her safety…everyday. She weighs a whopping 87lbs…very petite…She has a gang of girlfriends that go everywhere together…so I hope that is a modicum of safety. I just don’t what more I could do…short of locking her in a room. Momma just worries… ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2017, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-colleges-get-rid-of-on-campus-housing/796656/27 "2017-09-19T00:18:10Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I’m not so sure about that since most students already move out of dorms into apartments by about their jr year anyways. This has nothing to do with students who have already moved out of the dorms. You’re proposing taking a service that the university is offering (i.e., housing and food service), and turning it over to a for-profit third party company to administer. That third-party company has owners / investors, who will expect to see a profit returned on their investment. If that does _not_ lead to an increase in costs for dorm residents, versus what they would have paid when the university administered the dorms directly, I will be stunned. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2017, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-colleges-get-rid-of-on-campus-housing/796656/28 "2017-09-19T00:55:18Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > This has nothing to do with students who have already moved out of the dorms. > > You’re proposing taking a service that the university is offering (i.e., housing and food service), and turning it over to a for-profit third party company to administer. That third-party company has owners / investors, who will expect to see a profit returned on their investment. > > If that does _not_ lead to an increase in costs for dorm residents, versus what they would have paid when the university administered the dorms directly, I will be stunned. Be stunned. The cost of UCLA owned housing for undergrads, grads and faculty is about what the privately held housing is. They take in the cash. The same with university owned parking. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2017, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-colleges-get-rid-of-on-campus-housing/796656/29 "2017-09-19T01:21:30Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > No, what I am saying is colleges are having all these problems with reporting issues and then you have the issue of if someone does report a crime to the campus, then a student gets put before a campus judicial system which can be quite different than regular police. I could be wrong, but those cases may be from private colleges where they can (or think they can) attempt to contain these things before turning people over to the police. Some of these cases may also have been when the school was attempting to protect a star athlete or team. It was mentioned before, but I’ll say it just as another data point. In my college the police weren’t ‘rent-a-cops’. They were local Sheriff’s Deputies, with their own station on the campus. They drove regular squad cars around the campus regularly did rounds through the housing area (nothing intrusive, but their presence was known). If you’re in the dorms and called 911 from the landline, it patched your right through to them. If you were raping someone and got arrested, there’s no ‘campus judicial system’, you’re going to the same place anyone else in that situation would be going (the county jail, I assume, at least for the moment). OTOH, if people are being told to call their RA instead of 911, that could also be an issue. But still, I don’t want to victim blame, but rape victims, I think, need to make sure these get turned over to the police, like within minutes of them happening, without letting the school slow it down for any reason at all. Get on your phone and call the real police. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2017, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-colleges-get-rid-of-on-campus-housing/796656/30 "2017-09-19T01:28:31Z")
yeah apparently its part of his scholarship that he has to live there for freshman year not official policy ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2017, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-colleges-get-rid-of-on-campus-housing/796656/31 "2017-09-19T12:34:55Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > This has nothing to do with students who have already moved out of the dorms. > > You’re proposing taking a service that the university is offering (i.e., housing and food service), and turning it over to a for-profit third party company to administer. That third-party company has owners / investors, who will expect to see a profit returned on their investment. > > If that does _not_ lead to an increase in costs for dorm residents, versus what they would have paid when the university administered the dorms directly, I will be stunned. Hate to bust your bubble but at my college university housing and food service is also run for a profit. BUT, the thing is the college is notoriously SLOW to fix problems. Like for example they didn’t have rooms for students on opening day and they would stick them everywhere like the tv rooms. Or, rooms were trashed but still students had to pay for them. At least with a private apartment owner you can or at least should get better service. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2017, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-colleges-get-rid-of-on-campus-housing/796656/32 "2017-09-19T12:48:41Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > I could be wrong, but those cases may be from private colleges where they can (or think they can) attempt to contain these things before turning people over to the police. Some of these cases may also have been when the school was attempting to protect a star athlete or team. > > It was mentioned before, but I’ll say it just as another data point. In my college the police weren’t ‘rent-a-cops’. They were local Sheriff’s Deputies, with their own station on the campus. They drove regular squad cars around the campus regularly did rounds through the housing area (nothing intrusive, but their presence was known). > > If you’re in the dorms and called 911 from the landline, it patched your right through to them. If you were raping someone and got arrested, there’s no ‘campus judicial system’, you’re going to the same place anyone else in that situation would be going (the county jail, I assume, at least for the moment). > > OTOH, if people are being told to call their RA instead of 911, that could also be an issue. But still, I don’t want to victim blame, but rape victims, I think, need to make sure these get turned over to the police, like within minutes of them happening, without letting the school slow it down for any reason at all. Get on your phone and call the real police. Well that is the problem because most campus sexual assaults are not what you would call “traditional” rape. Their is no calling 911. It might be weeks later that the student goes to a counselor and then decides to come forth and charge the other person. And yes, usually drinking is involved. All evidence is gone and its just her word against his. However the university is obliged to investigate and take action on the case. Now this is where it gets weird because they may or may not report it to police. BUT, they do have to make an official note of it so it goes to some national database which reports on each campus. The college has to do something or they are accused of not having safe campuses. So basically on weak evidence and with no trial a student is suspended or expelled. And then, here come the expensive lawsuits. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2017, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-colleges-get-rid-of-on-campus-housing/796656/33 "2017-09-19T12:51:33Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > The thing to do is educate the young women and men…Women need to know it is safe to report and not be blamed…Men need to know what 'NO means…They are still impressionable at 18 or 19…and of course, a degree if supervision where possible. My college student is a very young 17yr.old…she is living in a co-ed dorm…We paid extra for her to be on the same floor as the R.A…and bought her some pepper spray. So far it seems that her floor is the quiet one in the building…But, I worry everyday for her safety…everyday. She weighs a whopping 87lbs…very petite…She has a gang of girlfriends that go everywhere together…so I hope that is a modicum of safety. I just don’t what more I could do…short of locking her in a room. Momma just worries… Is it possible that a group of girls would sign a pact stating that if they do go out, they will not allow any one girl to be out of their sight even to use the bathroom and they will ALWAYS be sure every girl gets home safely. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2017, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-colleges-get-rid-of-on-campus-housing/796656/34 "2017-09-19T13:37:51Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Hate to bust your bubble but at my college university housing and food service is also run for a profit. Out of curiosity, was it private or public? But in either case, because yours was, doesn’t mean they all are. At my college, the housing was part of the school, the food service was privately run (but some of it was still filtered through the school). > [@](#): > > BUT, the thing is the college is notoriously SLOW to fix problems. Like for example they didn’t have rooms for students on opening day and they would stick them everywhere like the tv rooms. Or, rooms were trashed but still students had to pay for them. At least with a private apartment owner you can or at least should get better service. Cuz landlords are just always totally on top of things, especially when they’re dealing with college kids who wreck everything and move out 10 months later. Yes, they should but no, they don’t. One of my friends lived in her apartment for months without a lock on her door with no idea that she could (legally, I believe) stop paying rent until it was fixed or have it fixed herself and deduct the money. She’d asked for it to get fixed multiple times and it never was. > [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Well that is the problem because most campus sexual assaults are not what you would call “traditional” rape. Their is no calling 911. It might be weeks later that the student goes to a counselor and then decides to come forth and charge the other person. And yes, usually drinking is involved. All evidence is gone and its just her word against his. However the university is obliged to investigate and take action on the case. I’m sorry, and I’m not being snarky, but what is a traditional or non-traditional rape? Are you talking about cases where someone is raped and realizes it was rape weeks later? That’s going to happen anywhere, on campus or off, student or ‘grown up’. If it’s on campus they may find a counselor if it’s off campus (or they’re out of school/grown up) they’re going to find a friend and in all these cases if they want to press charges, they need to go to the police since someone else probably won’t do that for them. I’m not sure how housing people in off campus, private apartments will change anything. > [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Is it possible that a group of girls would sign a pact stating that if they do go out, they will not allow any one girl to be out of their sight even to use the bathroom and they will ALWAYS be sure every girl gets home safely. I’m sorry, what now? You’re going to have to spell that out better. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2017, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-colleges-get-rid-of-on-campus-housing/796656/35 "2017-09-19T13:46:48Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Is it possible that a group of girls would sign a pact stating that if they do go out, they will not allow any one girl to be out of their sight even to use the bathroom and they will ALWAYS be sure every girl gets home safely. Traditionally that’s how friendship (or just plain decent behavior) works. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2017, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-colleges-get-rid-of-on-campus-housing/796656/36 "2017-09-19T14:39:30Z")
All these girls met at college…I am not sure if any of them are invested enough with each other ,in that way. I think it is just a ‘safety in numbers’ kinda thing…I have talked til I am. blue to the lil’wrekker about safety concerns…All you can do is pray and worry,… ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2017, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-colleges-get-rid-of-on-campus-housing/796656/37 "2017-09-19T14:50:15Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Well that is the problem because most campus sexual assaults are not what you would call “traditional” rape. Their is no calling 911. It might be weeks later that the student goes to a counselor and then decides to come forth and charge the other person. And yes, usually drinking is involved. All evidence is gone and its just her word against his. However the university is obliged to investigate and take action on the case. > > . I think you throw around the word “most” a lot, perhaps inaccurately. > [@](#): > > Now this is where it gets weird because they may or may not report it to police. BUT, they do have to make an official note of it so it goes to some national database which reports on each campus. The college has to do something or they are accused of not having safe campuses. That’s simply not the case. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2017, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-colleges-get-rid-of-on-campus-housing/796656/38 "2017-09-19T17:24:50Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Is it possible that a group of girls would sign a pact stating that if they do go out, they will not allow any one girl to be out of their sight even to use the bathroom and they will ALWAYS be sure every girl gets home safely. Imagine if this is what it took to avoid getting your nose broken. 'Hey, guys. It’s not fair or just, but there’s a lot of people on campus that, if they find you alone on the way to the bathroom or something, will just haul off and break your nose. It’s not right and it’s not fair, but this is the world we live in. By the time you graduate, you’ll have many friends will crooked noses, so do what you can to protect yourself" Now, in the short term, you might heed the wisdom of traveling only in a tight group. But if the problem went on for decades, and everyone knew about it and treated it as normal–of course there’s a good chance someone will randomly hit you in the face, breaking your nose–would you consider that acceptable? Because I would think that a university that had that level of sustained unprovoked violence and failed to fix it was profoundly uncivilized and lawless. Now, getting sexually assaulted is a lot more serious than having your nose broken, but we treat it like an inevitable cost of business of living in the world. I can’t help but think that that is because half the people making the rules know it’s unlikely that they will be impacted, and so they are willing to accept a much higher risk for other people. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2017, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-colleges-get-rid-of-on-campus-housing/796656/39 "2017-09-19T17:52:07Z")
Back to dorms per se… Where I attended college, at the time, only the freshmen were assured housing placement (and not all inside campus). Upperclassmen could try for a small number of slots by lottery in university apartments, but the expectation was you’d be out in the market. The early 80s urban market with all it entails. Since then they expanded the availability and now all first and second year students must reside in univeristy housing, though again not all inside campus at least most of it is no more than a block away. Part of what drove that was that the neighborhood began getting gentrified and affordable spaces became ever fewer and farther away, in even skivvier neighborhoods, thus creating (at least in perception) \*greater \*degree of danger. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-colleges-get-rid-of-on-campus-housing/796656/40 "2017-09-20T01:19:01Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > According to the article I quoted above, its not so much false accusations its just that a student on a campus can accuse someone with sexual assault in a broader sense than what would be touched by a regular prosecuting attorney. So a student can be expelled for much less evidence or reason. Yes, they can sue the school and take the matter to another court but who pays for that and how long will it take? > > Now I perfectly understand why a university should be held responsible for the safety of its students in say the science building. > > BUT, how can they be held responsible for what happens at a fraternity party or in a dorm where students are already drinking and having sex? They can be held liable, urbanredneck, because the university advises, supports, and permits affiliated frats and sororities to function. Dormitories, whether they’re run by the university or subcontracted, are also under university jurisdiction. As to your other point, you’re not seriously suggesting that if there’s alcohol at a party and/or some students are engaging in sex, rape is impossible or unprovable, are you? (Correct answer: of course not.) I strongly suggest you read the book\* Missoula\* by Jon Krakauer for a better understanding of rape on college campuses. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-colleges-get-rid-of-on-campus-housing/796656.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-colleges-get-rid-of-on-campus-housing/796656.md?page=3)