# Should David Gregory be charged with violating DC's ban on high capacity gun magazines? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 27, 2012, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-david-gregory-be-charged-with-violating-dcs-ban-on-high-capacity-gun-magazines/645299 "2012-12-27T17:31:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-david-gregory-be-charged-with-violating-dcs-ban-on-high-capacity-gun-magazines/645299/41 "2012-12-28T02:56:33Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > ISTM that if the magazine weren’t real, NBC wouldn’t have called the police concerning the legality of it. It would still be difficult to prove though. Ah, that’s the thing: they may have been worried about the legality of a real magazine, but once they got that information, then they could decide to keep the real 30-rounder back in Virginia and go get a prop one instead for use in the show. ---
**Author:** ![gunchris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@gunchris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gunchris)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-david-gregory-be-charged-with-violating-dcs-ban-on-high-capacity-gun-magazines/645299/42 "2012-12-28T03:03:56Z")
this whole thread reminds me of one of the most important historical documentaries ever made [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/SYkbqzWVHZI/hqdefault.jpg "stoned for saying jehovah (life of brian)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYkbqzWVHZI) imo he needs to be made an example of, but of course the police can not prosecute him because he is the ruling elite and they are the serfs … ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-david-gregory-be-charged-with-violating-dcs-ban-on-high-capacity-gun-magazines/645299/43 "2012-12-28T03:05:37Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Ah, that’s the thing: they may have been worried about the legality of a real magazine, but once they got that information, then they could decide to keep the real 30-rounder back in Virginia and go get a prop one instead for use in the show. That’s very possible. It just makes Gregory a liar which isn’t especially good for a journalist. Although I suppose it’s possible that Gregory himself didn’t know if it was real or not. ---
**Author:** ![gunchris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@gunchris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gunchris)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-david-gregory-be-charged-with-violating-dcs-ban-on-high-capacity-gun-magazines/645299/44 "2012-12-28T03:10:09Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Ah, that’s the thing: they may have been worried about the legality of a real magazine, but once they got that information, then they could decide to keep the real 30-rounder back in Virginia and go get a prop one instead for use in the show. DC law mirrors CA law in many ways, it could be illegal to have a prop if you’re not a certified armorer for a film production company. The story is similar to the outrage when Marky Mark Wahlberg made the movie\* “Shooter”\* They had him actually shoot real guns during production, the problem being he is a violent felon and prohibited. Nothing happens because the law is not fairly applied, we have the elite and we have the peasants. If some unimportant liberal facebooker had done the same thing she would be arrested. ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-david-gregory-be-charged-with-violating-dcs-ban-on-high-capacity-gun-magazines/645299/45 "2012-12-28T03:31:57Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I haven’t seen the text of the law, but it sounds stupid if it allows prosecution in these circumstances. Welcome to the wonderful world of gun laws! ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-david-gregory-be-charged-with-violating-dcs-ban-on-high-capacity-gun-magazines/645299/46 "2012-12-28T03:33:10Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > If they do charge him, I wonder how they’ll prove it wasn’t a fake. That was my first thought. Has it been established that this magazine was in fact genuine and not fake? > [@JRDelirious](#): > > Ah, that’s the thing: they may have been worried about the legality of a real magazine, but once they got that information, then they could decide to keep the real 30-rounder back in Virginia and go get a prop one instead for use in the show. +1 > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Crack cocaine is useless without a pipe.. Not true. Crack can be smoked in a pipe but it can also be (and is) broken down with something acidic and injected. And as far as it being “harmless” on it’s own, that’s false as well. While it can’t really be used in a manner an addict/recreational drug user might prefer without some sort of object, just ingesting it or crushing it and snorting it would be “harmful” to some degree. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-david-gregory-be-charged-with-violating-dcs-ban-on-high-capacity-gun-magazines/645299/47 "2012-12-28T03:38:53Z")
> [@D-bear](#): > > Should George Bush (41) have been prosecuted for possession when he had [Crack Cocaine](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/local/longterm/tours/scandal/bushdrug.htm) on his desk in the Oval Office? Seems like kind of a similar question to me. No. According to your linked article - _When Bush gave his speech on the evening of Sept. 5, McMullan and the undercover agent were both at the White House. **The undercover agent stood in the Oval Office to maintain “chain of custody” over the crack** – a legal phrase that refers to the government’s requirement that it prove any drugs presented in court as evidence are the same drugs used in the crime._ the crack cocaine was actually still in police custody. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-david-gregory-be-charged-with-violating-dcs-ban-on-high-capacity-gun-magazines/645299/48 "2012-12-28T03:42:42Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I haven’t seen the text of the law, but it sounds stupid if it allows prosecution in these circumstances. It _is_ stupid - which is why this dumbass shouldn’t be on TV arguing that the law should be expanded. Actually being subject to the law he so loves might make him see it for what it really is. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-david-gregory-be-charged-with-violating-dcs-ban-on-high-capacity-gun-magazines/645299/49 "2012-12-28T03:46:51Z")
If the DC police aren’t going to charge David Gregory with violating DC law, why should they charge anyone else, within their jurisdiction, who is holding a 30 round magazine? If the DC police aren’t going to arrest anyone who’s holding a 30 round magazine, then the DC legislature should change the law. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-david-gregory-be-charged-with-violating-dcs-ban-on-high-capacity-gun-magazines/645299/50 "2012-12-28T03:57:12Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > … it’s also kind of stupid to prosecute him just for showing an object as part of a discussion. > [@TriPolar](#): > > I haven’t seen the text of the law, but it sounds stupid if it allows prosecution in these circumstances. It does allow prosecution in these circumstances and it is stupid, but non-malice-filled gun owners get caught up in these kind of stupid laws with regularity, and get prosecuted, so yes, they should prosecute David “Laws are for Little People” Gregory. Goose, gander, you know how it goes. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-david-gregory-be-charged-with-violating-dcs-ban-on-high-capacity-gun-magazines/645299/51 "2012-12-28T03:57:55Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > That’s very possible. It just makes Gregory a liar which isn’t especially good for a journalist. Although I suppose it’s possible that Gregory himself didn’t know if it was real or not. It would be absurd to call Gregory a liar for using a prop. When someone points at a graph on a whiteboard, do you scream, “That isn’t quarterly profits! That’s dry erase marker!”? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-david-gregory-be-charged-with-violating-dcs-ban-on-high-capacity-gun-magazines/645299/52 "2012-12-28T04:06:03Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Maybe they pulled the spring out before they brought it to the office. Doesn’t matter. [The law in question](http://thepatriotperspective.wordpress.com/2012/12/23/david-gregory-violates-dc-gun-law-on-national-tv/) applies to a “device that has a capacity of, **or that can be readily restored** or converted to accept, more than 10 rounds of ammunition” ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-david-gregory-be-charged-with-violating-dcs-ban-on-high-capacity-gun-magazines/645299/53 "2012-12-28T04:08:18Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > It would be absurd to call Gregory a liar for using a prop. > > When someone points at a graph on a whiteboard, do you scream, “That isn’t quarterly profits! That’s dry erase marker!”? Your absurd analogy notwithstanding, the quote was: > [@](#): > > Here is a magazine for ammunition that carries 30 bullets. Now isn’t it possible that, if we got rid of these, if we replaced them and said ‘Well, you could only have a magazine that carries five bullets or ten bullets,’ isn’t it just possible that we can reduce the carnage in a situation like Newtown? If he were holding anything other than a magazine capable of holding 30 rounds, I’d call him a liar. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-david-gregory-be-charged-with-violating-dcs-ban-on-high-capacity-gun-magazines/645299/54 "2012-12-28T04:10:42Z")
TMZ posted this for what it’s worth: [ > [@TMZ](#): > > Our sources say the D.C. police official informed ATF David could legally show the magazine, provided it was empty. An ATF official then called the staffer from “Meet the Press” to inform them they could use the magazine. ](['Meet the Press' Got the Green Light for Magazine Demo with David Gregory](http://www.tmz.com/2012/12/26/meet-the-press-david-gregory-dc-police-atf-gun-magazine/))It goes on to say that the police say they were called and said no. So different staffers may have called different officials, or they may have called the ATF to make sure. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-david-gregory-be-charged-with-violating-dcs-ban-on-high-capacity-gun-magazines/645299/55 "2012-12-28T04:12:50Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Doesn’t matter. [The law in question](http://thepatriotperspective.wordpress.com/2012/12/23/david-gregory-violates-dc-gun-law-on-national-tv/) applies to a “device that has a capacity of, **or that can be readily restored** or converted to accept, more than 10 rounds of ammunition” Is replacing the mechanism “readily restored”? Honestly, I’m not a lawyer, so I don’t know. Would it have to be filled with cement or something? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-david-gregory-be-charged-with-violating-dcs-ban-on-high-capacity-gun-magazines/645299/56 "2012-12-28T04:16:23Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > Your absurd analogy notwithstanding, the quote was: > If he were holding anything other than a magazine capable of holding 30 rounds, I’d call him a liar. You are free to call it as you like. I still say you’re being unreasonable. The quote is fine for my sensibilities. ---
**Author:** ![Robb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a183cd/32.png) [@Robb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robb)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-david-gregory-be-charged-with-violating-dcs-ban-on-high-capacity-gun-magazines/645299/57 "2012-12-28T05:10:34Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > Your absurd analogy notwithstanding, the quote was: > If he were holding anything other than a magazine capable of holding 30 rounds, I’d call him a liar. I can’t stop you from calling him a liar, but unless police can prove that what he showed to LaPierre met the definition of what DC prohibits, he won’t get charged with a crime. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-david-gregory-be-charged-with-violating-dcs-ban-on-high-capacity-gun-magazines/645299/58 "2012-12-28T05:15:34Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Is replacing the mechanism “readily restored”? Honestly, I’m not a lawyer, so I don’t know. Would it have to be filled with cement or something? Yes, replacing the spring would count as “readily restored”. I could do that in a minute or so. The ATF (and I assume the same is true of the DC Metro PD) routinely stretch their definitions to absurd lengths to cover as many possible cases as imaginable. I am even skeptical that they’d call “filled with cement” exempt either, as one could chisel away at the cement long enough to restore it to full functionality. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-david-gregory-be-charged-with-violating-dcs-ban-on-high-capacity-gun-magazines/645299/59 "2012-12-28T08:15:33Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I would say there is substantive difference between obtaining something to make a public argument that it should be outlawed, and having one for its intended use. > > That said, we have no idea if the magazine was working. Maybe they pulled the spring out before they brought it to the office. Maybe it was just a dummy. Pulling the spring out does not change an illegal device to a legal device. Cement, in my opinion, would work. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-david-gregory-be-charged-with-violating-dcs-ban-on-high-capacity-gun-magazines/645299/60 "2012-12-28T08:45:10Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > TMZ posted this for what it’s worth: > > [url=['Meet the Press' Got the Green Light for Magazine Demo with David Gregory](http://www.tmz.com/2012/12/26/meet-the-press-david-gregory-dc-police-atf-gun-magazine/)]It goes on to say that the police say they were called and said no. > > So different staffers may have called different officials, or they may have called the ATF to make sure. Relying on the ATF is not a defense. The ATF is a federal agency and not an authority on local DC law, even though local DC law also derives from federal authority. The ATF is not the law enforcement agency charged with enforcing DC-specific law. More interesting is the claim that the following sequence of events occurred: [ul] [li]Show calls ATF, asks for advice[/li][li]ATF agent says, “It’s legal under federal law, but let me check with DC for you and see if it’s OK.”[/li][li]ATF then calls back and says, “I checked with DC and they say it’s all right as long as it’s unloaded.”[/li][/ul] If believed by a finder of fact, I think that story might establish a defense of _estoppel by reliance_ – it’s as least arguable. The only problem would be the claim that DC police also called directly and said, “No, definitely not legal.” The show could not succeed on an estoppel claim if they disregarded the direct guidance of the DC police on DC law in favor of the indirect, relayed, hearsay guidance of the ATF communicating what they understood someone else say _about_ DC law. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-david-gregory-be-charged-with-violating-dcs-ban-on-high-capacity-gun-magazines/645299.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-david-gregory-be-charged-with-violating-dcs-ban-on-high-capacity-gun-magazines/645299.md?page=4)