# Should declawing cats be illegal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 17, 2016, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-declawing-cats-be-illegal/754970 "2016-05-17T06:08:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-declawing-cats-be-illegal/754970/61 "2016-05-17T18:09:03Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Tails and ears are regularly docked. But not for practical reasons in most cases; in working breeds it’s traditionally done to protect the animal from injury, not to protect human furniture. But for a lot of working breeds, its done on household pets because the look of the breed is a docked tail or ears. I was shocked when a friend of mine who is vocal on the antideclawing thing had his boxers’ tail docked. In those cases its done for looks only Debarking is probably the most analogous situation for a dog. Debarking can keep a dog in a home who would otherwise be put into a shelter because the neighbors complain. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-declawing-cats-be-illegal/754970/62 "2016-05-17T18:48:50Z")
All of my previous cats had intact claws, but when I adopted my current two cats, they were already declawed. I don’t notice any indication at all that they’re in constant pain, or that they have any recollection of post-surgery pain. I asked my vet about this, and her reply was that the anti-declawing crowd was guilty of projection, imagining losing their own fingers. She said the cats recover quickly from the surgery, then go on to lead normal lives. And besides, isn’t the government already meddling in people’s lives more that it should? ---
**Author:** ![lilihob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a9adbd/32.png) [@lilihob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lilihob)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-declawing-cats-be-illegal/754970/63 "2016-05-17T18:58:19Z")
Devocalization, (de-barking), is also illegal in the UK. So is ear cropping, and tail docking is frowned upon and hard to get. I didn’t even know that debarking was even a real thing until this thread. So, in America all these things are legal, and maybe my trouble with them is just cultural. But, I’d rather be my animal here in the UK, I’d be spayed, cat sex, especially, sounds hella painful, no predators, so I can go out and be me, and flex out my lovely claws, while I balance on the fence, causing next doors dog to bark his head off. They do say that the English care more about animals than people, it’s probably true. All the pets in our little neighbourhood seem to have it made. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-declawing-cats-be-illegal/754970/64 "2016-05-17T18:59:02Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > And besides, isn’t the government already meddling in people’s lives more that it should? Nah, How would I ever decide what to do if some politician didn’t make some law or regulation? ---
**Author:** ![T-Minus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c77e96/32.png) [@T-Minus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T-Minus)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-declawing-cats-be-illegal/754970/65 "2016-05-17T18:59:50Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > All of my previous cats had intact claws, but when I adopted my current two cats, they were already declawed. I don’t notice any indication at all that they’re in constant pain, or that they have any recollection of post-surgery pain. I asked my vet about this, and her reply was that the anti-declawing crowd was guilty of projection, imagining losing their own fingers. She said the cats recover quickly from the surgery, then go on to lead normal lives. > > And besides, isn’t the government already meddling in people’s lives more that it should? That is very interesting to know, glad they make speedy recoverys. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-declawing-cats-be-illegal/754970/66 "2016-05-17T19:03:40Z")
> [@lilihob](#): > > Devocalization, (de-barking), is also illegal in the UK. > So is ear cropping, and tail docking is frowned upon and hard to get. > I didn’t even know that debarking was even a real thing until this thread. > So, in America all these things are legal, and maybe my trouble with them is just cultural. > But, I’d rather be my animal here in the UK, I’d be spayed, cat sex, especially, sounds hella painful, no predators, so I can go out and be me, and flex out my lovely claws, while I balance on the fence, causing next doors dog to bark his head off. > They do say that the English care more about animals than people, it’s probably true. > All the pets in our little neighbourhood seem to have it made. What predators of cats do we have in the US that are not in the UK? Bears? Mountain lions? ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-declawing-cats-be-illegal/754970/67 "2016-05-17T19:12:57Z")
> [@T-Minus](#): > > That is very interesting to know, glad they make speedy recoverys. I’ve declawed two cats (out of four) - one who went after the other cat, one who was aggressive around my young kids. None for violations against furniture, woodwork, carpets, drapes or sheetrock (though my current cat commits three out of four of those sins - she doesn’t go after drapes). In both cases the cat came home from the vet drugged to the gills. Spent a day or so in post surgery grogginess. Did some tender walking for a few days - and then was back to normal. My first cat would even get out of the house and could still climb the tree to the roof to be demanded in through the bedroom window. Both jumped, ran and walked normally - and retained their honestly not pleasant personalities - except the first one couldn’t actually beat up her housemate any more and the second one couldn’t scratch the kids - he’d bat at them really hard and hiss, but didn’t bite and didn’t cause damage - and despite not being pleasant, seemed to enjoy lying in the clean laundry or a spot of sunshine, chasing the laser, watching the birds, and demanding their cat treats like most other cats. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-declawing-cats-be-illegal/754970/68 "2016-05-17T19:17:16Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > What predators of cats do we have in the US that are not in the UK? Bears? Mountain lions? Raptors aren’t common in the UK, not big enough ones to take a cat. Wolves and coyotes. Big cats (pumas as well as mountain lions). Cats can also find danger from non predators - raccoons are cute, but nasty. There are also fewer cars and probably fewer neighbors likely to poison roaming cats since its considered appropriate to let your cat out. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-declawing-cats-be-illegal/754970/69 "2016-05-17T19:21:04Z")
> [@lilihob](#): > > I didn’t even know that debarking was even a real thing until this thread. Debarking is pretty darn rare. We had an issue with my sisters dog because one of the neighbors was a pain in the ass. We were pretty much down to debarking, rehoming or putting her down when my sister decided to move - the best option for her. I owned the house, moving wasn’t an easy option for me - had it been my dog, it would likely have been rehomed. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-declawing-cats-be-illegal/754970/70 "2016-05-17T19:24:17Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Raptors aren’t common in the UK, not big enough ones to take a cat. Wolves and coyotes. Big cats (pumas as well as mountain lions). > > Cats can also find danger from non predators - raccoons are cute, but nasty. > > There are also fewer cars and probably fewer neighbors likely to poison roaming cats since its considered appropriate to let your cat out. There are no raccoons in UK? Also, what about stray dogs? Foxes? Chimney sweeps? Just seems strange to say there are no predators of cats in the UK. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-declawing-cats-be-illegal/754970/71 "2016-05-17T19:35:15Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > There are no raccoons in UK? Nope. Native to North America. > [@](#): > > Also, what about stray dogs? Foxes? Chimney sweeps? The first certainly could be an issue, foxes are far less of a threat and the third exists but only to snatch small children to put at work cleaning flues. > [@](#): > > Just seems strange to say there are no predators of cats in the UK. There are certainly fewer. The #1 the wild cat-killers in the U.S. is undoubtedly suburban and exurban coyotes. Free-roaming dogs, ornery 'coon + stupid cat scenarios and raptors will take a few, but are far less of an issue. Other cats result usually in assorted wounds with the attendant economic issues of treatment for abscess and the like. But really by far the biggest killer of outdoor cats has to be vehicles, which is also likely more of an issue in the U.S. than the U.K… True ferals also have to contend with disease + parasites of course. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-declawing-cats-be-illegal/754970/72 "2016-05-17T20:15:30Z")
I don’t consider debarking to be much like declawing. Dogs are social creatures and removing one of its means of communicating seems cruel. Cats hunt, but declawed cats continue to “hunt”, pounce and bat shit around the house whether they have claws or not. My cat can also still manage to get to any point in the house her little heart wants to visit so she’s not affected there. Debarking seems like it’d cramp the dog’s style much more than declawing does for a cat. Edit: On the predator front, we also have opossums here in the US. Not that one naturally hunts the other but I can see them standing off when they encounter one another sort of like cats/raccoons ---
**Author:** ![emulsified](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/emulsified/32/2915_2.png) [@emulsified](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emulsified)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-declawing-cats-be-illegal/754970/73 "2016-05-17T20:20:29Z")
I thought the bigger reason to keep cats indoors was because they like to kill the little birdies by the birdfeeder. But maybe that’s because I like the little birdies. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-declawing-cats-be-illegal/754970/74 "2016-05-17T20:22:16Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Edit: On the predator front, we also have opossums here in the US. Not that one naturally hunts the other but I can see them standing off when they encounter one another sort of like cats/raccoons Weasels and badgers would come into that category as well. Around here, raptors are a bigger deal than coyotes - we have bald eagles and big darn peregrine falcons. I’m pretty much where the Minnesota and Mississippi rivers meet up - lots of big predator birds, but too urban for many coyotes or wolves. Debarking apparently softens the dogs bark - it can still vocalize, just at a “whisper.” ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-declawing-cats-be-illegal/754970/75 "2016-05-17T20:25:00Z")
> [@emulsified](#): > > I thought the bigger reason to keep cats indoors was because they like to kill the little birdies by the birdfeeder. But maybe that’s because I like the little birdies. Yes, and to keep your bird loving neighbor from putting out a can of tuna fish laced with rat poison when your cat starts taking out their songbirds. 😉 (We had someone do this to my free roaming dog when I was a kid…the vet said “it could have been an accident, but more than likely, one of your neighbors” - we lived out in the middle of nowhere, thought it had started to suburbize - no one had their dog on a leash in that neighborhood back then.) ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-declawing-cats-be-illegal/754970/76 "2016-05-17T21:03:51Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Well, no. It’s not a finger. The cat’s not going to play the piano, tie its shoes or sign a check. It’s a toe on the paw and the last digit is [held in a raised position](http://www.cat-talk-101.com/images/forepaw_skeleton_circled.jpg) to keep the claw retracted when not in use. The whole purpose of that digit is to move the claw up and down so, if there’s no claw, the digit pretty much has no function. It is not remotely like removing the last digit of a finger. I disagree with you here. The claw on a cat is integral to it’s sensor system. I understand humans don’t rely on fingertips or fingernails to any great degree, but a cat evolved differently. As I said, I like my cats’ claw sharp as can be, and I have several “kneeders”. At least my cats know _exactly_ how much pressure to apply … all the way through the clothing but just touching Papa’s skin. > [@Jophiel](#): > > Much like circumcision, declawing is one of those issues where one side is WAY more emotionally invested in it than the other. One side says “Eh, do it if you want… or don’t… whatever” and the other side is “Never do this ever”. That imbalance of emotional energy tends to make debates on the topic tiresome as the more strongly invested side tries to demonize or shame the “eh, whatever” side into submission. There isn’t really a counter “Everyone must declaw or they’re monsters” side. Here I do agree with you. If you have the facts and make a reasoned decision, then it’s up to you. They are _not_ children, they are personal property. > [@Jophiel](#): > > Personally, I’ve never bothered declawing before. My wife wanted the latest one declawed and so it goes. Haven’t seen where it really made a difference and the other option was not adopting a cat that needed a home from a shelter with way too many other cats that also needed homes. So the whole “Maybe you don’t DESERVE a cat!” schtick sounds hollow to me. Sure, maybe the cat deserved to stay homeless instead. That’d be way more awesome than a fed, sheltered and pampered cat with no claws. I’m a proponent of euthanasia. They’re domesticated animal and they have to managed as domesticated animals. If there’s more cats than there are good homes for them, It’s a better option than either turning them loose or placing them in bad homes. I live out in the country and I get many many cats dumped out here. I’ll try to place them but if the cougars get them first … why, that’s just a horrible way to die. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-declawing-cats-be-illegal/754970/77 "2016-05-17T22:06:23Z")
> [@lilihob](#): > > I didn’t spay my cat and neuter my ex-feral tom cat for my convenience A lot of people do, though. Dealing with a cat in heat is a pain in the nuts. Female cats in heat can drive one nuts, and male cat spray is even more destructive than clawed up furniture. These are animals. As the top species on the planet the owners of these animals have dominion to decide how to care for them. Declawing once and done is not the same as torturing a cat on a daily basis. It is a better option for some than not caring for a cat at all. Seeing that some of you are hung up on the facetious number “zillions” I’ve had to sit and think about all the cats I’ve had. When I was a kid we usually had 3 cats, and as an adult we usually had 3 cats unless we had a dog, then we would have 2. Most cats lived their average age of 12, a few died much earlier, one lived to almost 20. When our kids [3] moved out each one asked to take at least one of the cats which we would replace immediately just as we always did when a cat died. When my pop died we gave my ma 2 of our cats that she loved because she didn’t have any at the time. It helped enormously with her dealing with the emptiness of the house. We then replaced those cats for our own home. So a lot of cats passed through my life. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-declawing-cats-be-illegal/754970/78 "2016-05-17T22:18:45Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > What predators of cats do we have in the US that are not in the UK? Bears? Mountain lions? Here in Texas, in the suburbs of Dallas, outdoor cats will many times not live to an old age but will instead be killed by coyotes (very common) or bobcats (not uncommon, but less than coyotes). I don’t have access to statistics, but in my experience I’d guess that more than half of cats that are let outdoors will never have aging problems to deal with. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-declawing-cats-be-illegal/754970/79 "2016-05-17T22:23:05Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > I disagree with you here. The claw on a cat is integral to it’s sensor system. I understand humans don’t rely on fingertips or fingernails to any great degree, but a cat evolved differently. Setting aside any discussion about cat sensor systems (which I’m not really buying but is irrelevant for reason below), humans rely on their fingertips a ridiculous amount since we use them every time we manipulate something with our hands. Our fingernails are adapted to help us manipulate things, to offer protection and an additional bit of fine control. Consider everything you do with your fingers/hands throughout the day and losing 33% of each of them would affect your life immensely. So, regardless of any “sensor system” argument the fact remains that declawing isn’t remotely like taking the last digit of your fingers off. It’s a terrible argument ad comparison. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-declawing-cats-be-illegal/754970/80 "2016-05-17T22:51:52Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Big cats (pumas as well as mountain lions). Puma and mountain lion are just different names for the same animal. > **[Cougar](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cougar)** > > Also see text > The cougar (Puma concolor) (/ˈkuːɡər/, KOO-gər), also known as the panther, mountain lion, catamount and puma, is a large cat native to the Americas. It inhabits North, Central and South America, making it the most widely distributed wild, terrestrial mammal in the Western Hemisphere, and one of the most widespread in the world. Its range spans the Canadian Territory of Yukon, British Columbia and Alberta provinces, the Rocky Mountains and areas in the Western United States. ... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-declawing-cats-be-illegal/754970.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-declawing-cats-be-illegal/754970.md?page=5)