# Should declawing cats be illegal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 17, 2016, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-declawing-cats-be-illegal/754970 "2016-05-17T06:08:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-declawing-cats-be-illegal/754970/141 "2016-05-18T19:27:25Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > I really don’t like declawing cats, but we had no choice. Our cat is very aggressive, and would continue attacking my elderly father and drawing blood. And considering my Dad was on blood thinners, he bled profusely. Other than declawing the cat, the only other solution would have been to send him to the pound, where he would likely have been put to sleep. This is exactly why there are exceptions to every rule, moral or not. That’s why I’m not judging people. I’ve been extremely lucky to never have been in this position nor would I wish it on anyone else. Sorry **Rick**. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-declawing-cats-be-illegal/754970/142 "2016-05-18T19:33:15Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > A few summers back, I met Amy Rigby backstage after a concert (she is a friend of my gf). I was wearing sandals, which I pointed out to her and gave her some grief over.\* > > \*She does a song called _Men in Sandals_. > /flip-flop hijack. Everyone but panache try to have flip flops by this weekend at the latest. If I could fine the old style [Like This](https://d3vnak9c16q2tf.cloudfront.net/items/HavaianasWomen-Havaianas40000292711412_large_PRODUCT_TOP_59510.png) I’d buy them in a hearbeat. Out here, they’re all [Like This](https://s2.dessy.com/s/i/product/v29/1641/1641-rble-front-big.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-declawing-cats-be-illegal/754970/143 "2016-05-18T19:44:01Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > “Convenience” doesn’t sound so bad to me. The only reason house cats exist through most of the world is because they are convenient to humans for mousing or companionship. Derisively saying you’re declawing them for “convenience” is, to me, like “Well, yeah… I own this thing for convenience in the first place”. If I wanted my cat to live how nature intended, I’d put it in a box and ship it back to North Africa rather than letting it lie in my window or hunt songbirds and fight skunks in the back yard. It isn’t bad to me either. Just pointing out that the accusation that I did it merely for my own convenience isn’t very accurate. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-declawing-cats-be-illegal/754970/144 "2016-05-18T19:58:36Z")
> [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](#): > > Only speaking for me it’s because it’s not a tradeoff that the other living thing has a choice in. I AM going to be making a choice about this living thing. But suppose I could ask my cat: would you rather go through a couple of days of tenderness in your paws then be pampered for the rest of your life, or should I just take you in and have you euthanized right now? That’s the choice. My cat can’t speak to me, but I can project what I think he might want, and it sure seems to me that he’d choose the former if he could. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-declawing-cats-be-illegal/754970/145 "2016-05-18T20:33:45Z")
> [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](#): > > If it turns out that cutting off a humans balls extends their lifetime would you be good with someone in charge of you unilaterally deciding to chop them off, you know, for your own good? I’m pretty sure it would make you a bit less violent as well. This seems like a poor excuse for the practice. It also makes no sense since they were whacking balls long before they even did the study. That’s not the reason, it’s a side effect at best. I think you’re being too anthropomorphic here, cats are emotional creatures but their emotions are not human emotions. I understand it’s very easy to project human emotions onto a cat but we need to be conscience of the differences as well. We also need to beware of a self-fulfilling prophecy, if you think your cat brings in a dead mouse because they “love” you, and you’ll respond in kind, then you may have simply conditioned your cat into this behavior. The fact remains the cat will instinctively carry it’s kill to a place of safety, your home, it doesn’t mean they love you in the human sense. If your human child is bringing in dead size-proportionate animals … I’d say your future includes family therapy, wildlife officers and maybe even the police. You’re comparing carnivores with rodents … I don’t think that works. You also seem to be implying that eunuchs have profoundly longer and more healthy lives than other humans, I’d like to see a citation on that if you don’t mind. I’d also like to know why you’re against spay/neuter. I’ve ask this question many times and the typical answer generally has nothing to do with the well-being of the animal in question. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-declawing-cats-be-illegal/754970/146 "2016-05-18T22:54:20Z")
> [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](#): > > You’re also terribly off base. You did read that I found him a home where he would be happier at right? Would it have been better to keep him anyway and everyone be miserable? No, I don’t think I am off base. You found that cat a home where _you_ would be happier, IMO. You’ve presented no evidence that the cat was unhappy in the first place, you know. My point is that you claim to want to treat animals as something you own but you’ve shown yourself to treat them that way when it suits your purposes, IMO. Getting rid of a cat because it couldn’t properly use a litter box was your choice, made for your happiness, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-declawing-cats-be-illegal/754970/147 "2016-05-18T22:56:08Z")
> [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](#): > > Feel free to substitute “remove parts of their anatomy nature had no intention of being removed” for mutilated if you like. I’m not stuck on semantics. I don’t think nature “intended” for them to be removed or remain intact. What evidence do you have for nature’s “intent” regarding anything? ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-declawing-cats-be-illegal/754970/148 "2016-05-19T00:33:52Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > I think you’re being too anthropomorphic here, cats are emotional creatures but their emotions are not human emotions. I understand it’s very easy to project human emotions onto a cat but we need to be conscience of the differences as well. We also need to beware of a self-fulfilling prophecy, if you think your cat brings in a dead mouse because they “love” you, and you’ll respond in kind, then you may have simply conditioned your cat into this behavior. The fact remains the cat will instinctively carry it’s kill to a place of safety, your home, it doesn’t mean they love you in the human sense. If your human child is bringing in dead size-proportionate animals … I’d say your future includes family therapy, wildlife officers and maybe even the police. > > You’re comparing carnivores with rodents … I don’t think that works. > > You also seem to be implying that eunuchs have profoundly longer and more healthy lives than other humans, I’d like to see a citation on that if you don’t mind. > > I’d also like to know why you’re against spay/neuter. I’ve ask this question many times and the typical answer generally has nothing to do with the well-being of the animal in question. I am not anthroporphizing anything. I’ve said nothing about what the animals want or think. This path might lead me to making a moral judgement about how others treat animals no? Possibly the folks saying that they would prefer being declawed and living a life pampered might be doing this, I don’t know. I have no idea if an animal would prefer this or not and since I can’t know I’d rather err on the side of leaving the animal intactas that is it’s default state. I’ve never even addressed cats bringing me dead rodents so that seems to be a bit out of left field nor do I recall comparing rodents with anything. I don’t feel I’m the one projecting anything. Ditto me saying anything about the health habits of eunichs. The main thing I’ve said is that I would not want to be made one not that it’s something I’m advocating for. I have no idea where this notion of me being pro euniching came from. As for why I’m against spaying and neutering I’m not. I’ve said as much in this thread. It makes me uncomfortable but I can understand the need. It makes me uncomfortable because it puts me in a position over another living being that I am not intended to have but doing it is in the best interest of the community. As I told **Rick** I had no problem with the choice he made to declaw as it was the best interest of everyone at the time. It wasn’t something he could know in advance would happen. He was dealing with a situation he found himself in. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-declawing-cats-be-illegal/754970/149 "2016-05-19T00:45:32Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > No, I don’t think I am off base. You found that cat a home where _you_ would be happier, IMO. You’ve presented no evidence that the cat was unhappy in the first place, you know. > > My point is that you claim to want to treat animals as something you own but you’ve shown yourself to treat them that way when it suits your purposes, IMO. Getting rid of a cat because it couldn’t properly use a litter box was your choice, made for your happiness, IMO. It wasn’t my damned cat to own. I rescued it until it could be adopted out. I owed it nothing nor did I bond with it. No one expected me to keep it, ever. I had considered taking it permanently but I never agreed to it. I opted not to. You sure that you want to take the point that you are forever responsible for any thing that you rescue? I assure you, it would have been crueller to let it starve. You may win others over to this argument but I don’t find it compelling and you’re clearly putting words into my mouth. The whole thing I’ve been saying that I do NOT consider myself as the owner of another living thing and now you are contending that I want to treat animals as something I own to press your moot point about a decision that you have ascribed motives to that I have already stated didn’t happen. Odd. You’re right about one thing, I was happy when that cat was adopted out. So was he and my other cats and his new owner so all was good in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-declawing-cats-be-illegal/754970/150 "2016-05-19T00:48:37Z")
Fat Freddie’s cat, though…the claws go if he shits in my headphones again. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-declawing-cats-be-illegal/754970/151 "2016-05-19T00:51:01Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I don’t think nature “intended” for them to be removed or remain intact. What evidence do you have for nature’s “intent” regarding anything? Well, if nature intended them to be removed they would come off naturally, no? Since the only way they come off is by human intervention then I’d say that nature intended them not to be removed. I mean, I can see the meta answer that nature intended men to be so compelled to remove them that they would do natures intended bidding by removing them for her but I’ve never really thought about the issue that deeply so who knows? You may be absolutely correct. At this point though, I’d say it doesn’t seem likely. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-declawing-cats-be-illegal/754970/152 "2016-05-19T01:03:13Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > I AM going to be making a choice about this living thing. But suppose I could ask my cat: would you rather go through a couple of days of tenderness in your paws then be pampered for the rest of your life, or should I just take you in and have you euthanized right now? > > That’s the choice. My cat can’t speak to me, but I can project what I think he might want, and it sure seems to me that he’d choose the former if he could. So, is this the answer you would choose if you are the cat? If it is, then it seems that your view is consistent. Nothing wrong with that. If the answer is different though, then it seems presumptive to assume the cat would choose what you would not choose yourself. Just an anectdote here. I am not contending that cats don’t generally mellow considerably but I have met the exception. My cousin’s cat Simon, the nastiest, most evil animal I’ve ever met. Rumor is, he was fine before the snip but after it, clearly he hated life, humans, everything. He was one of the few animals I have truly been scared of though he never really got me good. He would attack his owner on a whim and with growling and hissing. I saw him take on a doberman that strayed into his territory. Think the Pet Semetary cat but meaner. I was a teenager when I knew Simon. Now, maybe most cats are ok with the procedure he sure wasn’t and I don’t blame him. This probably adds to why I find the procedure to be uncomfortable to me but again, I see the reason for it. I may be creating another Simon and that did not appear to be a happy cat, ever. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-declawing-cats-be-illegal/754970/153 "2016-05-19T01:21:49Z")
I think a recap post is in order since my point is being lost. 1. I do not think cats are people and I make no presumptions about their wants and needs. I have no way of knowing this. 2. Since I am unable to get the cats opinion then the best rule I can follow is the golden one. 3. I freely accept that others can follow the same rule and come up with different answers so I judge no one nor have I said others should come to my conclusion nor should they be punished for not doing so. 4. I am not pro eunich. 5. The reason I originally posted was not to defend the golden rule but to propose that there is a must be in control spectrum that people fell on and I was on the low end of this spectrum. The one thing no one has felt like talking about. It’s a shame. This is something I’ve been thinking about and I really could have used some critical debate about it to make me clarify my view on it. 6. It occurs to me that this isn’t the thread to discuss this in so what’s left appears to be to defend things I’ve never actually said or believed. 7. Next question. ---
**Author:** ![spamforbrains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@spamforbrains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spamforbrains)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-declawing-cats-be-illegal/754970/154 "2016-05-19T01:28:08Z")
> [@](#): > > In exchange for a day or two of tender feet, the cat gets a lifetime of a loving home. We wouldn’t have a cat if it was going to tear up our house, and if we didn’t take this one in, that’s one more cat that will be euthanised. Because that’s not the trade-off. Amputating a cat’s toes is incredibly, horrifically painful. It’s not “tenderness” it’s a matter of most cats wake up screaming from the procedure. Cats don’t do that when waking up from any other surgical procedure. Cats walk on the part of the toe that is chopped off, and use their claws for many things. Sure, they can adapt, but they’ve lost a major, highly important part of their body. Some cats seem to develop phantom limb pain after the procedure. Some cats have severe personality changes. But the one that impacts their owners the most is a lot of amputated cats refuse to use litter boxes because digging in the box with their damaged toes is painful, and refusing to use a litterbox is the #1 reason why owners surrender cats at shelters. Since it’s quite easy to train a cat to not claw up the furniture, the rationale for declawing is not clear at all. Why do you suppose so many countries have banned it? As for neutering, there’s a lot of evidence that is really bad for animals too, causing all kinds of health problems. People are thinking of switching to simpler, less mutilating procedures, such as vasectomies, for animal birth control. Bottom line, unless there is a good, solid medical reason for chopping bits off animals, it’s best to refrain. Behavioral problems should be addressed by addressing the behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-declawing-cats-be-illegal/754970/155 "2016-05-19T01:28:56Z")
Here’s a number 8. 1. I guess I am getting an answer to my issue. It is people who are higher up on the must be in control spectrum who find someone who does not believe as they do must be put in their place and can’t accept someone thinking differently even if this person finds no issue with them or their way of thinking but merely refuses to accept it as his own. I’m not sure if this is interesting or obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-declawing-cats-be-illegal/754970/156 "2016-05-19T01:31:44Z")
> [@spamforbrains](#): > > As for neutering, there’s a lot of evidence that is really bad for animals too, causing all kinds of health problems. People are thinking of switching to simpler, less mutilating procedures, such as vasectomies, for animal birth control. I never even knew this was a thing. Thanks for fighting my ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![spamforbrains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@spamforbrains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spamforbrains)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-declawing-cats-be-illegal/754970/157 "2016-05-19T01:39:35Z")
Most recent article on bad effects of neutering if you’re interested. PDF, and it hasn’t been fully edited yet warning: [http://crescopublications.org/pdf/JEAH/JEAH-1-002.pdf](http://crescopublications.org/pdf/JEAH/JEAH-1-002.pdf) Non-Reproductive Long-Term Health Complications of Gonad Removal in Dogs ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-declawing-cats-be-illegal/754970/158 "2016-05-19T03:01:46Z")
> [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](#): > > . . . It is people who are higher up on the must be in control spectrum who find someone who does not believe as they do must be put in their place . . . Like making laws about what they can’t do? ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-declawing-cats-be-illegal/754970/159 "2016-05-19T04:05:39Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Like making laws about what they can’t do? Sure and I’m free to feel uncomforable when they enact unjust ones. I would not be a good lawmaker exactly because of my ambivalence towards punishment. Doesn’t mean no one should do it. I’m not sure, did I mention that I’m not trying to advocate my position for others nor judging those who don’t agree with it? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-declawing-cats-be-illegal/754970/160 "2016-05-19T05:22:26Z")
> [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](#): > > . . . did I mention that I’m not trying to advocate my position for others nor judging those who don’t agree with it? King Kong sized super-quantum eight-dimensional epic mega-fail, young-feller-me-lad. You come across as intensely judgemental, and really highly, um, advocate-ish. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-declawing-cats-be-illegal/754970.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-declawing-cats-be-illegal/754970.md?page=9)