# Should democrats rethink "defund police" and push for law and order? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 15, 2020, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-democrats-rethink-defund-police-and-push-for-law-and-order/920677 "2020-09-15T12:04:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2020, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-democrats-rethink-defund-police-and-push-for-law-and-order/920677/243 "2020-09-24T00:13:15Z")
Have you considered moving to a better neighborhood? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2020, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-democrats-rethink-defund-police-and-push-for-law-and-order/920677/244 "2020-09-24T00:19:45Z")
Hey! When I recommend folks move… I’m in a good neighborhood and it’s a good neighborhood in part because of a functioning police force and civilized neighbors. Not everyone can afford to live in a nice neighborhood. Should they be at the mercy of gangs, cartels, and other assorted villains? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2020, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-democrats-rethink-defund-police-and-push-for-law-and-order/920677/245 "2020-09-24T00:22:56Z")
No, they shouldn’t be at the mercy of the terrorists that are paid by their taxes for the purpose of “protecting and serving.” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2020, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-democrats-rethink-defund-police-and-push-for-law-and-order/920677/246 "2020-09-24T00:23:19Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > ’m in a good neighborhood and it’s a good neighborhood in part because of a functioning police force and civilized neighbors. Considering your rather loose definition of “functioning police force”, I’m not sure I would want to live in your “civilized” neighborhood. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2020, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-democrats-rethink-defund-police-and-push-for-law-and-order/920677/247 "2020-09-24T00:29:44Z")
What is my definition of functioning police force? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2020, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-democrats-rethink-defund-police-and-push-for-law-and-order/920677/248 "2020-09-28T12:27:51Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > You know, the day may come when I listen to a conservative lecture me about disavowing the crazy extremists, but I don’t think that day is going to be in 2020. So you are not going to listen to the lecture, but you agree! ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2020, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-democrats-rethink-defund-police-and-push-for-law-and-order/920677/249 "2020-09-28T12:32:44Z")
Whether I agree with what you say is 100% immaterial until Republicans no longer have a crazy extremist as the head of their party: I don’t agree with what conservatives _do_. I’m as likely to listen to your exhortations on this regard as I am to listen to the head of the National Beef Council talking to me about how to go vegan. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2020, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-democrats-rethink-defund-police-and-push-for-law-and-order/920677/250 "2020-09-28T13:47:11Z")
I understood you. No matter who is right, you’ll not listen to the person who happens to be right, because of who they are and not what they say. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2020, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-democrats-rethink-defund-police-and-push-for-law-and-order/920677/251 "2020-09-28T14:07:44Z")
That’s correct. Doesn’t mean you’re wrong, just that you need to get your house in order before lecturing others. If you want to lecture me about how a political party can engage in ruthless politics unconstrained by ethical considerations and give me tips in that regard, I’m all ears. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2020, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-democrats-rethink-defund-police-and-push-for-law-and-order/920677/252 "2020-09-28T14:08:52Z")
The problem with that is that you assume my house is the Republican house. I think I have been pretty vocal about currently not having a house ☹ ---
**Author:** ![urbanredneck2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/5f8ce5/32.png) [@urbanredneck2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/urbanredneck2)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2020, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-democrats-rethink-defund-police-and-push-for-law-and-order/920677/253 "2020-09-28T20:27:30Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Hey! When I recommend folks move… > > I’m in a good neighborhood and it’s a good neighborhood in part because of a functioning police force and civilized neighbors. Not everyone can afford to live in a nice neighborhood. Should they be at the mercy of gangs, cartels, and other assorted villains? I’ve seen bad neighborhoods turned around by the combination of strong police presence along with code officers going after the people causing trouble. For example, lets say you have a drug house. The cops basically put a car on the curb to at least curtail drug transactions then the code enforcers come in and issue tickets for things like overgrown lawns, broken down cars in yards, excess garbage, excess noise, and such until the bad people move away or change. Now the code enforcement wont work without police to back up the rulings. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-democrats-rethink-defund-police-and-push-for-law-and-order/920677/254 "2020-10-01T00:30:31Z")
Absolutely. But what the naive, to be generous as the alternative is pure malignancy, on the left think is that a vacuum of power is going to be filled with angels. I notice social workers weren’t sent to handle Osama Bin Laden or used to fight WWII. Funny thing is even some of the nuts in Minneapolis are rethinking their previous stance. It’s interesting how reality doesn’t care about so-called intent. At some point it would be nice to have people live according to the policy they advocate for everyone else. Want to let all folks out of prison? How about live in that prison with no protection from evil armed corrections officers and see if you want those folks as your neighbor in a neighborhood without police. Ultimately, the left has made a cynical calculation which is there is electoral advantage to pander to criminality. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-democrats-rethink-defund-police-and-push-for-law-and-order/920677/255 "2020-10-01T08:25:03Z")
> [@urbanredneck2](#): > > I’ve seen bad neighborhoods turned around by the combination of strong police presence along with code officers going after the people causing trouble. And I’ve seen "bad"neighborhoods turned around by putting parks in vacant lots, tearing down abandoned buildings, rebuilding and resupplying schools, and encouraging local businesses. The police aren’t the only solution to problems. > [@octopus](#): > > I notice social workers weren’t sent to handle Osama Bin Laden or used to fight WWII. It’s sad that you think of our neighborhoods as war zones and our neighbors as enemies. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-democrats-rethink-defund-police-and-push-for-law-and-order/920677/256 "2020-10-01T16:44:16Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > It’s sad that you think of our neighborhoods as war zones and our neighbors as enemies. “There’s nothing to be frightened about until somebody starts shootin’.” (16:10) [https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2r5tm6](https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2r5tm6) ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-democrats-rethink-defund-police-and-push-for-law-and-order/920677/257 "2020-10-01T20:52:03Z")
Some of them are. And that’s exacerbated by destructive leftist policies that incentivize destructive and antisocial behavior. Everyone who advocates the elimination of police and the abolishment of incarceration should volunteer to spend some time in a max security prison devoid of guards. See how long it takes for a change of mind to occur when reality shatters naive ideology. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-democrats-rethink-defund-police-and-push-for-law-and-order/920677/258 "2020-10-01T21:09:16Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > And that’s exacerbated by destructive leftist policies that incentivize destructive and antisocial behavior. “Leftist”? > **[NYPD Says President Trump's Budget Cuts Leave New York Vulnerable to Terror](https://time.com/4704617/nypd-donald-trump-budget-terrorism/)** > > “Simply put, we cannot afford to cut corners in fighting terrorism" > **[President Trump Begins Process Of Defunding New York City, Gov. Cuomo Calls...](https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/trump-defunding-nyc/)** > > Gov. Andrew Cuomo says the president is no longer welcome in this town, saying, "Forget bodyguards, he better have an army if he thinks he's gonna walk down the street in New York." > **[New York City Republican Leaders Are Sticking By Trump’s Plan To Defund New...](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/kadiagoba/trump-new-york-city-funding)** > > Republicans in the overwhelmingly Democratic city think Trump's legally questionable plan is fair if Democrats want to defund the police. Yes, I’m aware that the _Time_ article is from 2017. It establishes a pattern. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-democrats-rethink-defund-police-and-push-for-law-and-order/920677/259 "2020-10-01T21:16:32Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > The police aren’t the only solution to problems. Maybe it is to those who would without realizing it prefer a more socialist, made of union members with a rockin state funded pension panacea, eh? ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-democrats-rethink-defund-police-and-push-for-law-and-order/920677/260 "2020-10-01T21:39:07Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > destructive leftist policies… Ya mean like: > Left-wing politics supports social equality and egalitarianism, often in opposition to social hierarchy.It typically involves a concern for those in society whom its adherents perceive as disadvantaged relative to others as well as a belief that there are unjustified inequalities that need to be reduced or abolished. [Left-wing politics - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_politics#:~:text=Left%2Dwing%20politics%20supports%20social,to%20be%20reduced%20or%20abolished). ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-democrats-rethink-defund-police-and-push-for-law-and-order/920677/261 "2020-10-01T21:50:35Z")
It’s amusing to me, in a sad way, to see some posters blaming the residents of a neighborhood for the lack of city services in that neighborhood. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-democrats-rethink-defund-police-and-push-for-law-and-order/920677/262 "2020-10-01T21:52:46Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > And that’s exacerbated by destructive leftist policies that incentivize destructive and antisocial behavior. Such as? > [@octopus](#): > > Everyone who advocates the elimination of police and the abolishment of incarceration should volunteer to spend some time in a max security prison devoid of guards. See how long it takes for a change of mind to occur when reality shatters naive ideology You do realize that this thread is about defunding the police and not eliminating police or abolishing incarceration, right? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-democrats-rethink-defund-police-and-push-for-law-and-order/920677.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-democrats-rethink-defund-police-and-push-for-law-and-order/920677.md?page=14)