# Should democrats rethink "defund police" and push for law and order? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 15, 2020, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-democrats-rethink-defund-police-and-push-for-law-and-order/920677 "2020-09-15T12:04:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2020, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-democrats-rethink-defund-police-and-push-for-law-and-order/920677/122 "2020-09-16T18:18:16Z")
Nobody who voted against impeaching Trump can ever run on a law and order ticket again. Full stop. ---
**Author:** ![urbanredneck2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/5f8ce5/32.png) [@urbanredneck2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/urbanredneck2)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2020, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-democrats-rethink-defund-police-and-push-for-law-and-order/920677/123 "2020-09-16T21:20:22Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > “…standing outside their hospital cheering and hoping they die!” > Didnt happen, fake news. [Are you blind?](https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2020/09/14/sheriffs-deputies-shot-compton-anti-police-protest/) A bunch of idiots were outside yelling “We hope you die!”. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2020, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-democrats-rethink-defund-police-and-push-for-law-and-order/920677/125 "2020-09-16T21:32:34Z")
False flag. ---
**Author:** ![urbanredneck2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/5f8ce5/32.png) [@urbanredneck2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/urbanredneck2)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2020, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-democrats-rethink-defund-police-and-push-for-law-and-order/920677/126 "2020-09-16T21:33:32Z")
There are better links but they are thru Fox news and I know people on this board refuse to look at anything from Fox. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2020, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-democrats-rethink-defund-police-and-push-for-law-and-order/920677/127 "2020-09-16T21:34:38Z")
> [@urbanredneck2](#): > > [Are you blind?](https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2020/09/14/sheriffs-deputies-shot-compton-anti-police-protest/) > > A bunch of idiots were outside yelling “We hope you die!”. I skipped around a little in that video. At what point are us blind people supposed to see/hear video of protestors shouting that? The only footage I saw of anything remotely violent concerning the protests was that a reporter was roughed up by the cops because they didn’t think she had proper credentials. But maybe I skipped right over the footage of protestors yelling. That said, yeah, there are asshole protestors. They’re a vanishingly small number. There are murderers who hate cops. Their numbers are a tiny fraction of the number of murderers who _are_ cops. Why do you keep starting threads about the tinier problems, instead of about the much larger problems? If you support law and order, you need to support prosecuting rogue cops to the full extent of the law, and you need to support mass firings and prosecutions of all cops who enable the rogue cops. Anything less is support of a state-sanctioned gang. ---
**Author:** ![urbanredneck2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/5f8ce5/32.png) [@urbanredneck2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/urbanredneck2)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2020, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-democrats-rethink-defund-police-and-push-for-law-and-order/920677/128 "2020-09-16T21:38:31Z")
Its towards the end. Also look at [this link](https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/516232-la-mayor-condemns-protesters-shouting-death-to-police-outside-hospital) from the democrat mayor. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2020, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-democrats-rethink-defund-police-and-push-for-law-and-order/920677/129 "2020-09-16T22:54:04Z")
So, the “democrat” mayor is pushing for law and order? Sounds like all is well. BTW, “their” is a possessive meaning “owned or possessed by them”. “There” has multiple meaning, one being “not here”. “They’re” is a contraction of “they are”. “Its” is also a possessive, while “it’s” is a contraction meaning “it is”. “Democratic” should be capitalized and end in “ic” if you’re using it as an adjective. Thus: “_It’s_ towards the end. Also, look at this link from the _Democratic_ mayor.” ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2020, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-democrats-rethink-defund-police-and-push-for-law-and-order/920677/130 "2020-09-16T23:04:03Z")
How does one see what people yell? True some police claim that but there is no evidence.Some press claim otherwise. However, yes, there were about six protestors being assholes, Ok. And the police beat up a journalist. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2020, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-democrats-rethink-defund-police-and-push-for-law-and-order/920677/131 "2020-09-16T23:09:53Z")
And were the ones yelling outside the hospital the same ones going around “ambushing and shooting police”, as claimed? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2020, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-democrats-rethink-defund-police-and-push-for-law-and-order/920677/132 "2020-09-16T23:18:57Z")
That area is a really bad gang area, gangs control it, and even the Sheriff’s have kinda organized themselves into a gang. This is more or less gang warfare. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2020, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-democrats-rethink-defund-police-and-push-for-law-and-order/920677/133 "2020-09-17T00:30:10Z")
> [@urbanredneck2](#): > > Its towards the end. Also look at [this link](https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/516232-la-mayor-condemns-protesters-shouting-death-to-police-outside-hospital) from the democrat mayor. Super unhelpful–but you can find the raw footage online. Dude’s Kevin Wharton-Price, and what I said earlier holds: > [@](#): > > That said, yeah, there are asshole protestors. They’re a vanishingly small number. There are murderers who hate cops. Their numbers are a tiny fraction of the number of murderers who _are_ cops. Why do you keep starting threads about the tinier problems, instead of about the much larger problems? You keep starting threads about tiny problems like this, instead of much larger problems like organized criminal violence among the ranks of police forces across the nation. Why are you focusing on the little issues instead of the big issues? ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2020, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-democrats-rethink-defund-police-and-push-for-law-and-order/920677/134 "2020-09-17T01:07:42Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I just don’t think _guilty until proven innocent_ is a reasonable default position on all cops. But the issue is that it is obviously systemic, and increasingly so. Sure, we only have relatively few (caught) LEO commiting crimes, but we have their entire institution, from the top down protecting the criminals from an honest investigation. So, guilty by association and at least passive neglect is a likely crime for all cops. Just from today alone - [https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/16/us/daniel-prude-rochester-emails/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/16/us/daniel-prude-rochester-emails/index.html) While the cops mention several excuses, and some of them _may_ be valid, it is institutional CYA. If you want to stall something, rather than come clean, you generally know you bear at least some responsibility. And if it was just one jurisdiction, again, maybe we should slow roll the judgement, but what we’re finding out is that it is many, if not all. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2020, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-democrats-rethink-defund-police-and-push-for-law-and-order/920677/135 "2020-09-17T05:01:44Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > And the police beat up a journalist. Can you blame them? They probably had a super-stressful day, with half a dozen people being assholes! ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2020, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-democrats-rethink-defund-police-and-push-for-law-and-order/920677/136 "2020-09-17T17:16:32Z")
We finally got some clarification on this. There were four protestors. _They were members of the so-called Africa Town Coalition ― a Black advocacy group that is not affiliated with the Black Lives Matter national organization._ [People Yelled ‘I Hope They Die’ About Ambushed LA Deputies. They Weren’t BLM Protesters.](https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/los-angeles-deputies-protest-hospital-134258699.html) _The small group can be heard celebrating the deputies’ injuries and bashing police officers as “pigs” and “murderers.” At least one shouts that he hopes the deputies “fucking die.” Eventually, roughly a dozen law enforcement officers arrive and demand that the demonstrators leave. At least one officer shown on the video draws a gun at the protesters._ _The demonstration lasted less than 10 minutes and resulted in the arrests of one protester and one journalist who was covering the confrontation. The sheriff’s office said the journalist neither identified herself nor carried press credentials. Video of her violent arrest showed[both claims were false](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/la-radio-reporter-arrested-protest_n_5f5ea583c5b62874bc1ea777)._ _In [a video](https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1268936996786559&id=100010108119096) posted to Facebook on Monday, Africa Town Coalition leader Kevin Wharton Price identified himself as one of the demonstrators at the hospital. He stated explicitly that his group is “not Black Lives Matter.”_ _“We’ve been on some actions with Black Lives Matter, but we have our own political agenda,” Wharton said. “Not Black Lives Matter. Not antifa.”_ ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2020, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-democrats-rethink-defund-police-and-push-for-law-and-order/920677/137 "2020-09-17T17:22:11Z")
I’ve been through all your posts here, Urban Redneck, and I’ve never once seen you denounce violent extremist right wing cop killers like Jared and Amanda Miller and, more recently, the Bogaloo California cop killer. [2014 Las Vegas shootings - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Las_Vegas_shootings) > **[Accused Killer Of California Cops Was Associated With Right-Wing 'Boogaloo...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/06/16/accused-killer-of-california-cops-was-associated-with-right-wing-boogaloo-movement/#39e566f459bd)** > > Steven Carrillo reportedly scrawled the word "boog" in blood on the hood of a car before being apprehended. You are probably going to try to dismiss them as crazies or outliers but you would be wrong. They are part of a robust anti law enforcement movement who sympathized with several very prominent right wing groups and showed up at their angry and violent demonstrations against the “other BLM” - the US Bureau of Land Management. This aren’t isolated incidents, there have been over 360 threats and violent incidents aimed at government agents between 2014 and 2017. And since 1980 (Left wing extremism was a bigger problem up until then) WAY more cops have been killed by right wingers than leftists. > **[White and far-right extremists kill more cops, but FBI tracks black...](https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/article196423174.html)** > > White supremacist and other far-right extremist groups have killed 51 police officers since 1990, according to a report published by the Anti-Defamation League last week. Left-wing extremist groups, including black nationalists, killed 11 during the... > **[Number of police officers killed by domestic extremists by perpetrator...](https://www.statista.com/statistics/984914/number-police-officers-killed-domestic-extremists-perpetrator-affiliation/)** > > In 2021, one police officer was killed by right-wing extremists in the United States. > **[Right-wing militant charged for planting a bomb at BLM building](https://www.hcn.org/articles/bomb-threat-blm-bureau-land-management-sagebrush-rebellion-arizona-bundy)** > > A federal felony complaint reveals that the feds are continuing to investigate extremism on public lands. > **[Watchdog warns government must do more to protect employees from threats on...](https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/466733-watchdog-warns-government-must-do-more-to-protect-employees-from/)** > > A government watchdog is warning the Trump administration that it must beef up protections of its federal employees overseeing public lands due to numerous instances of threats and assault.Accordin… [https://www.eenews.net/stories/1061339183](https://www.eenews.net/stories/1061339183) So why are you so silent on this? Why don’t you denounce them more strongly? It’s enough to make me doubt the sincerity of your commitment to Law and Order. I’ve been staying out of most of these policing threads because it gets personal for me really fast and I have difficulty debating the subject unemotionally. I’m good friends with the wife and family of a police officer who was murdered in a high profile incident and I’ve seen the personal devastation firsthand. But I’m also aware that most politically motivated cop killers are right wing extremists and it disturbs me when I see people ignoring the huge threat to law enforcement posed by right wing extremists while exaggerating a much smaller threat. BTW, I think “Defund the Police” is tone deaf. It’s been explained a million times and I get the explanation -sort of- but if you have to explain a three word slogan a million times it’s tone deaf. ---
**Author:** ![urbanredneck2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/5f8ce5/32.png) [@urbanredneck2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/urbanredneck2)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2020, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-democrats-rethink-defund-police-and-push-for-law-and-order/920677/138 "2020-09-21T20:13:41Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > BTW, I think “Defund the Police” is tone deaf. It’s been explained a million times and I get the explanation -sort of- but if you have to explain a three word slogan a million times it’s tone deaf. No, there are PLENTY of people on the left who want to defund police and we all know democrats will do what they are told. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2020, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-democrats-rethink-defund-police-and-push-for-law-and-order/920677/139 "2020-09-21T20:21:28Z")
Right now the only party reducing funding for police departments is the Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2020, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-democrats-rethink-defund-police-and-push-for-law-and-order/920677/140 "2020-09-21T20:28:45Z")
Ooooh…burn. It took you three days to come up with that? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2020, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-democrats-rethink-defund-police-and-push-for-law-and-order/920677/141 "2020-09-21T20:39:35Z")
Why, it’s gotten to the point where the police have taken it upon themselves to fund themselves! Illinois state trooper charged with selling stolen military equipment “Rafael Montalvo - who is also a former U.S. Marine - allegedly conspired with people in North Carolina to steal government-owned avionics and electronic testing equipment from multiple Marine aviation squadrons and sell them to others, according to the U.S. Attorney’s Office of the Eastern District of North Carolina.” And the reason the article refers to him as a “former Illinois State Police trooper” is because “Montalvo was stripped of his police powers and placed on leave upon the filing of the criminal charges, ISP spokesperson Gabriela Ugarte said in a statement.” [https://abc7chicago.com/il-state-trooper-charged-with-selling-stolen-military-equipment/6481264/](https://abc7chicago.com/il-state-trooper-charged-with-selling-stolen-military-equipment/6481264/) ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2020, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-democrats-rethink-defund-police-and-push-for-law-and-order/920677/142 "2020-09-21T20:42:34Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > It took you three days to come up with that? Most of which was spent figuring out what to say that wouldn’t denigrate any shootings by the far-right. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-democrats-rethink-defund-police-and-push-for-law-and-order/920677.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-democrats-rethink-defund-police-and-push-for-law-and-order/920677.md?page=8)