# Should dogs be allowed more into public spaces? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 14, 2014, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-dogs-be-allowed-more-into-public-spaces/695479 "2014-08-14T00:51:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-dogs-be-allowed-more-into-public-spaces/695479/21 "2014-08-14T17:03:33Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > “Dog-haters”? > > Personally, I think you have it backwards. In my experience, dog owners tend to overlook the fact that their pet is not as friendly, well-behaved or universally-loved as they imagine. If you have a strong bond with your dog, that’s great, but why should I be affected by that? This. My sister brings her fucking dogs everywhere. I finally had to ban them from my house and she thinks I’m unreasonable. When I bring up the fact that the dogs shit in my house she says “I clean it up!” She and her husband refuse to train their dogs in a responsible matter and as a result their neighbors don’t talk to them and the police are at their house regularly when the dogs get out and terrorize the neighborhood. Some pet owners are great, some are a bane to the rest of us and the latter group regularly thinks they’re the former. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-dogs-be-allowed-more-into-public-spaces/695479/22 "2014-08-14T17:05:23Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Good question, and I don’t think there’s a good general all-purpose answer, but I’d say it’s a judgment call based on the circumstances. What I object to is the kind of totally dismissive “fuck that shit” argument we sometimes see. > > 😃 > > In general, yes. But it depends. Just a couple of days ago we had a very nice lunch at a winery, in a beautiful informal setting that was a sort of porch open to the vineyards on two sides. The resident winery dog, somewhat like a Scottish Terrier, an old and slightly arthritic little guy, quietly meandered between the tables and once had a little nap under ours. It was part of the charm. My baby sister (and also my favorite one) is allergic to dogs. My crazy older sister (and also the crazy one) loves hers. My little sister also has a dog she loves, but is not batshit. A few months ago Baby Sis was in town, and I had dinner for the family. I specifically asked Crazy and Little Sisses not to bring their dogs, not simply because of Baby Sis’s allergy but also because my apartment building doesn’t allow them. Little Sis of course left her dog home; Crazy Sis tried to sneak hers in. Why? Because she’s crazy and doesn’t get that the fact she calls her dog her son does not mean that Baby Sis & I consider it our nephew. That “it” is intentional, by the way. As said above: fuck that shit. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-dogs-be-allowed-more-into-public-spaces/695479/23 "2014-08-14T17:05:50Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Good question, and I don’t think there’s a good general all-purpose answer, but I’d say it’s a judgment call based on the circumstances. So we should allow dogs everywhere and have to throw out the ones that misbehave? Have you ever been to a dog park? That’s not what I want my dinning and shopping experiences to be like much less my dentist visits. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-dogs-be-allowed-more-into-public-spaces/695479/24 "2014-08-14T17:06:18Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > “Dog-haters”? > > Personally, I think you have it backwards. In my experience, dog owners tend to overlook the fact that their pet is not as friendly, well-behaved or universally-loved as they imagine. If you have a strong bond with your dog, that’s great, but why should I be affected by that? Maybe the term was too strong. Perhaps I should have said “those with insufficient empathy for how important their dogs are in some people’s lives”, or who have been unfairly put off by some of the idiot dog owners that admittedly are out there. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-dogs-be-allowed-more-into-public-spaces/695479/25 "2014-08-14T17:08:45Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Maybe the term was too strong. Perhaps I should have said “those with insufficient empathy for how important their dogs are in some people’s lives”, or who have been unfairly put off by some of the idiot dog owners that admittedly are out there. You got it backwards again. The problem is dog owners with insufficient empathy to how disruptive their animals are and how selfish they are for foisting them upon us. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-dogs-be-allowed-more-into-public-spaces/695479/26 "2014-08-14T17:15:01Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Maybe the term was too strong. Perhaps I should have said “those with insufficient empathy for how important their dogs are in some people’s lives”, or who have been unfairly put off by some of the idiot dog owners that admittedly are out there. Unless it’s a proper service dog, no one needs their dog with them all the time. Stay home and have everything delivered. ---
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-dogs-be-allowed-more-into-public-spaces/695479/27 "2014-08-14T17:30:20Z")
If anything, dogs are in too many places as it is. My current workplace allows them, and that really bothers me. Among other things, they are serious trip-and-fall accidents waiting to happen. I’m a bit bothered by all this dogs-as-humans stuff in general. I love animals in the wild, including urban wildlife, but I find pet ownership baffling. When I was a kid, I would recoil from people’s dogs, and they would always say “S/he doesn’t bite!”, when my real concern was getting saliva and mucus on me. Eww! Part of the reasoning behind my reluctance to go home and see my parents is that they now have an annoying dog. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-dogs-be-allowed-more-into-public-spaces/695479/28 "2014-08-14T17:44:30Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > You got it backwards again. The problem is dog owners with insufficient empathy to how disruptive their animals are and how selfish they are for foisting them upon us. No, I didn’t get it backwards. Let me address it via this quote: > [@zoid](#): > > Some pet owners are great, some are a bane to the rest of us and the latter group regularly thinks they’re the former. This is the thing – there _ **are** _ bad owners out there as I said right at the start, some are just ignorant, others are just jerks. I suppose some are both. But it really is possible to tell the difference between the good ones and the idiots. Case in point: I was walking my dog some time ago when we passed some guy walking one of those nervous little pint-size yappy things that suddenly starting yapping furiously, as they like to do for no apparent reason. The guy turned back and got very hostile and inexplicably accused me of not having control over my dog. I just stood there pretty much speechless watching the scene: the yappy little dog was up on his hind legs pawing at the air, straining at his leash, yapping its little head off. My dog was sitting quietly on the sidewalk, his typical laid-back big Bernese smile on his face with his tongue hanging out, wondering why we were stopped, and why the stupid little mutt was making such a racket. And opposite the yapping end of the leash, the dog’s owner was yapping just about as loudly, and with equally little reason. It’s amazing how much like their owners dogs can be! 😃 If you’re going to ban dogs from public places because they can be troublesome, you should probably ban people like this, too, whether they have their dogs with them or not. Just like their idiot dogs, idiots will always find something to fight about. But don’t blame the dog. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-dogs-be-allowed-more-into-public-spaces/695479/29 "2014-08-14T18:02:28Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > No, I didn’t get it backwards. > > … > > If you’re going to ban dogs from public places because they can be troublesome, you should probably ban people like this, too, whether they have their dogs with them or not. Just like their idiot dogs, idiots will always find something to fight about. But don’t blame the dog. Yes you did get it backwards and the ending comment proves it. Dogs are not people and do not have the same rights as it should be. It’s a dog for Christ sakes. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-dogs-be-allowed-more-into-public-spaces/695479/30 "2014-08-14T18:04:21Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > No, I didn’t get it backwards. Yes, you did. the vast majority of the time that you put your need for an animal over your need for other humans, you’ve got it backwards. By trying to force people to accept the presence of an animal, you’ve prioritized that animal ahead of those people. This is something that can happen for purely selfish reasons, true, but the gist is that the animal has been made a higher priority than actual people. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-dogs-be-allowed-more-into-public-spaces/695479/31 "2014-08-14T18:22:22Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > Dogs are not people and do not have the same rights > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > By trying to force people to accept the presence of an animal, you’ve prioritized that animal ahead of those people. This is something that can happen for purely selfish reasons, true, but the gist is that the animal has been made a higher priority than actual people. That’s not what the argument is. Dog owners are “actual people”, too. The argument is about the preferences of responsible dog owners to be in the company of their dogs versus the preferences of others who are disinclined toward the company of dogs. It’s no different than an argument about whether or not it’s appropriate to carry a gun in certain circumstances, or to wear a top hat. People may disagree on the answer, but it’s always about people and their values and priorities. The right answer about dogs depends on the circumstances, and we might disagree on what those circumstances are, and how they should be prioritized, but that’s what the argument is – it’s just silliness to see it as an argument about whether dogs or people are more important. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-dogs-be-allowed-more-into-public-spaces/695479/32 "2014-08-14T18:30:16Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > That’s not what the argument is. Dog owners are “actual people”, too. > > The right answer about dogs depends on the circumstances, and we might disagree on what those circumstances are, and how they should be prioritized, but that’s what the argument is – it’s just silliness to see it as an argument about whether dogs or people are more important. You’re the one who conflated the two > [@wolfpup](#): > > If you’re going to ban dogs from public places because they can be troublesome, you should probably ban people like this, too, whether they have their dogs with them or not. Just like their idiot dogs, idiots will always find something to fight about. But don’t blame the dog. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-dogs-be-allowed-more-into-public-spaces/695479/33 "2014-08-14T18:52:24Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > You’re the one who conflated the two Meh, I’d hardly have expected my humorous jab about “banning certain people” from public places to be taken seriously. 😛 The serious part was that I do believe badly behaved dogs are usually the result of ignorant owners. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-dogs-be-allowed-more-into-public-spaces/695479/34 "2014-08-14T19:02:16Z")
> [@Gestalt](#): > > Yet children are allowed almost everywhere people are, and dogs are not. Children are allowed almost everywhere people are, because children _are_ people. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-dogs-be-allowed-more-into-public-spaces/695479/35 "2014-08-14T19:16:03Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > . . . If you’re going to ban dogs from public places because they can be troublesome, you should probably ban people like this, too, whether they have their dogs with them or not. . . . Crikey, don’t you think we wish we could? The couple who fight loudly in public, the guy who eats with his mouth open, the guy who farts promiscuously, the grandmother who insists on showing pictures of her family to anyone, the blithering blistering bore… I have a little list, of those who’d not be missed! ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-dogs-be-allowed-more-into-public-spaces/695479/36 "2014-08-14T19:30:58Z")
I like cats. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-dogs-be-allowed-more-into-public-spaces/695479/37 "2014-08-14T19:36:33Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I like cats. Up against the wall! ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-dogs-be-allowed-more-into-public-spaces/695479/38 "2014-08-14T20:18:58Z")
> [@SeaDragonTattoo](#): > > A lot of people are afraid of dogs, and a lot of people are allergic. They should not have to deal with dogs in enclosed spaces where they are made to feel afraid or have an allergy/asthma attack. Crossing the aisle or trying to stay on the other side of the room is not the same as being able to cross the street or change directions outside. It’s bad enough when people let their idiot dogs loose, off-leash outside and yell at strangers that it’s friendly. Well, maybe people don’t give a shit the mutt is friendly, they don’t want it anywhere near them, period. Oh god, this reminds me of a rant I had a couple of weeks ago. I was picking up our cats from being boarded and they were in their crates. One in each hand. The tech had forgotten to bring their food, so he had run out a door to go grab it and I was standing in a narrow hallway without any place to go. So then a guy comes in with a really big dog. He wasn’t supposed to be coming through that door, but he did. The dog smells my cats and goes _berserk_. I can feel the cats pitching around in their crates and I’m trying to back away though there is no place to back to. So the guy starts screaming _at me_ that the dog isn’t going to hurt my cats. Yeah, dude, they are protected in their crates but they don’t actually know that. And the crates weren’t protecting _me_. I like dogs and am not afraid of them (though definitely wary of one acting as insane as this dog), but this encounter really pissed me off. So, OP, things like this color my view of dogs in public spaces. The people who take the dogs into the spaces need not to be buttheads and, frankly, that’s asking a lot. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-dogs-be-allowed-more-into-public-spaces/695479/39 "2014-08-14T20:41:06Z")
Sounds like you experienced another case of a stupid owner. I propose that stupid owners should at least be neutered so they can’t reproduce, if not euthanized. 😛 My Bernese Mountain Dog would just ignore cats. Literally. We’d be walking down the street and a neighborhood cat would take offense and stand on its lawn arching its back and hissing, and my dog wouldn’t even give it the satisfaction of looking at it. He refused to lower himself to even acknowledging the cat’s existence! 😃 I am not making this up, though I have no idea how common it is. Bernese are known to be exceptionally intelligent. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-dogs-be-allowed-more-into-public-spaces/695479/40 "2014-08-14T20:54:38Z")
> [@Gestalt](#): > > Well-behaved dogs cause about as much disruption as well-behaved children The problem is that almost no dogs are well behaved. Some minimum standards: - Never tugs on leash. The leash should just be a hint to the dog to change direction. The dog isn’t under control if it’s constantly pulling on the leash. - Only shits/pisses on command. And please try to do it in your own yard. Even if you pick it up, you’re still leaving shitsmears on other people’s property. - No barking. - No chasing other animals (or humans). [These](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_GbVUEzSS-54/TBoF6MB-n7I/AAAAAAAAEqE/yG08EMhzMC4/s400/Self_Confidence.jpg) appear to be well-behaved dogs. - Does not become increasingly excited/agitated in the presence of other dogs. - No jumping on or other physical contact with humans except by permission. I know it’s possible to train dogs to meet this standard, so I don’t think it’s unreasonable. But I doubt that one dog in a hundred meets it among the general population. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-dogs-be-allowed-more-into-public-spaces/695479.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-dogs-be-allowed-more-into-public-spaces/695479.md?page=3)