# Should Droids be granted Sentient Rights? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 8, 2010, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-droids-be-granted-sentient-rights/563380 "2010-12-08T05:11:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-droids-be-granted-sentient-rights/563380/21 "2010-12-09T00:10:09Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > On a side note, how is a laser beam like a goldfish? Because neither one can whistle. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-droids-be-granted-sentient-rights/563380/22 "2010-12-09T00:31:41Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > G-damnit, I just dropped my Droid my in a bowl of water. It’s bad enough that now it may not work; I don’t want to also have to worry about its family suing me. Ipod: :crackling noise: Droid: He made a fair move. Screaming about it can’t help you. Owner: Let him have it. It’s not wise to upset an Ipod. Droid: But sir, no one worries about upsetting a droid. Owner: That’s 'cause droids don’t pull people’s arms out of their sockets when they lose. Ipods are known to do that. Droid: I see your point, sir. I suggest a new strategy, Blackberry. Let the [Ipod](http://hitokirivader.deviantart.com/art/Chewbacca-iPod-ad-27157136) win. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Straight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dec6dc/32.png) [@Enola\_Straight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Straight)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-droids-be-granted-sentient-rights/563380/23 "2010-12-09T00:50:54Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > They don’t really feel pain, or panic, or any emotions. . In Return of the Jedi, C-3PO and R2-D2 are in Jabba the Hutt’s dungeon, there several droids are tortured; one torn apart on a Rack, and another had it’s feet burned with red-hot metal. When Voyager went back in time to the '90s, Bill Gates/Ed Begley, Jr. tortured the EMH by hacking into his program and uploading the sensation of burning at the stake. The EMH also experienced worry and ultimately heartache when he lost his “daughter” to a Parisses Squares injury in a holodeck simulation. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-droids-be-granted-sentient-rights/563380/24 "2010-12-09T01:31:31Z")
Star Wars droids are capable of enough independent thought that there have been droid rebellions in the past. As a precaution their minds are erased on a regular basis. > [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > At least in the SWEU, there are several droids who seem to operate independently, and not being owned by any master. I’m reminded of the droid crime boss in Nar Shadaa in the Jedi Knight video game. I’m reminded of the renegade assassin droid in a short story that secretly had its brain installed in the Death Star II as its central computer and intended to go on a kill-all-life spree as soon as the DS II was complete. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-droids-be-granted-sentient-rights/563380/25 "2010-12-09T02:18:32Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Star Wars droids are capable of enough independent thought that there have been droid rebellions in the past. As a precaution their minds are erased on a regular basis. > > I’m reminded of the renegade assassin droid in a short story that secretly had its brain installed in the Death Star II as its central computer and intended to go on a kill-all-life spree as soon as the DS II was complete. I88 – I believe it was one of the bounty hunters that were after Han. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-droids-be-granted-sentient-rights/563380/26 "2010-12-09T02:22:06Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I88 – I believe it was one of the bounty hunters that were after Han. 8t88 was the name of the droid crime boss in Jedi Knight. Are we talking about the same character? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-droids-be-granted-sentient-rights/563380/27 "2010-12-09T02:51:06Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I88 – I believe it was one of the bounty hunters that were after Han. \ It was IG-88, or rather one of [IG-88A](http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/IG-88A)’s identically programmed copies. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-droids-be-granted-sentient-rights/563380/28 "2010-12-09T03:04:07Z")
I’m of the school of thought that anything capable of organized rebellion probably deserves not to be chattel. For ethical _and_ practical reasons. See the court case of [Maddox v Data](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HwvV29ezn0), or the non-court case of [Skynet vs. Connor](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4hY9BdG6SA#t=0m48s). ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-droids-be-granted-sentient-rights/563380/29 "2010-12-09T04:48:54Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m of the school of thought that anything capable of organized rebellion probably deserves not to be chattel. Y’know, even aside from the practical considerations, that’s probably a pretty good standard. If they’re “just machines” that always behave exactly as they’re programmed, then rebellion would be impossible. Even if you programmed them to grab pitchforks and torches and swarm Washington, or something, that still wouldn’t be rebellion on their part, just blind allegiance to a different party. Of course, it might be difficult for an outside observer to tell the difference between that case and genuine rebellion, but then again, if the programming is so complex that an expert couldn’t tell the difference, that’d be a tick in favor of personhood, too. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-droids-be-granted-sentient-rights/563380/30 "2010-12-09T08:30:06Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > No, they are machines and thus the rights normally associated with humans or other sentient organic beings do not really apply. You’re a machine too, just made of different parts. The reason humans are granted certain rights and animals or plants aren’t is because it’s the sum of the parts that’s import, not the building blocks that make it up. > [@](#): > > It does not feel pain, so it cannot be abused. Would you consider something like sensory deprivation abuse, if done to an unwilling victim? > [@YogSosoth](#): > > No, they shouldn’t have rights. They don’t really feel pain, or panic, or any emotions. Says who? You could use the same logic to say _you_ don’t deserve Sentient Rights, if you’re just going to ignore any and all evidence to the contrary. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-droids-be-granted-sentient-rights/563380/31 "2010-12-09T14:28:51Z")
I, too, thought “Droids” meant (very, very) smart phones. So I remembered Fritz Leiber’s [The Creature from Cleveland Depths](http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/23164). ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-droids-be-granted-sentient-rights/563380/32 "2010-12-09T14:40:37Z")
> [@Enola\_Straight](#): > > In Return of the Jedi, C-3PO and R2-D2 are in Jabba the Hutt’s dungeon, there several droids are tortured; one torn apart on a Rack, and another had it’s feet burned with red-hot metal. > > When Voyager went back in time to the '90s, Bill Gates/Ed Begley, Jr. tortured the EMH by hacking into his program and uploading the sensation of burning at the stake. > > The EMH also experienced worry and ultimately heartache when he lost his “daughter” to a Parisses Squares injury in a holodeck simulation. And you want to deny us humans the entertainment value of such spectacles? Who are you, Spartacus? ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-droids-be-granted-sentient-rights/563380/33 "2010-12-09T14:50:19Z")
> [@Enola\_Straight](#): > > In Return of the Jedi, C-3PO and R2-D2 are in Jabba the Hutt’s dungeon, there several droids are tortured; one torn apart on a Rack, and another had it’s feet burned with red-hot metal. That’s not a dungeon, that’s a SM/Bondage club. Jabba upon seeing R2D2 and C3PO’s unique bonding “chemistry” (“flamboyant chemistry”, I might add) thought they were the “type”. Jabba was always a firm believer in entertaining his personel, and sales figures have proven him right, so far. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-droids-be-granted-sentient-rights/563380/34 "2010-12-09T15:46:27Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > You’re a machine too, just made of different parts. The reason humans are granted certain rights and animals or plants aren’t is because it’s the sum of the parts that’s import, not the building blocks that make it up. > Would you consider something like sensory deprivation abuse, if done to an unwilling victim? snip. Sure, but the sum of our scientific knowledge indicates that while a droid can be torn apart and reassembled with perfect recall and without lasting damage, an organic being cannot. You can always load a copy of the droid’s programming into another set of hardware. Should we get to the point where that is feasible with humans, and everyone has equal access to replacement bodies, I’d advocate the toning down of many of our “rights”. Sensory deprivation to a functioning, aware droid that is unable to shut itself down would be abuse. Theoretically, they could simply turn off and wait it out without any ill effect. No real time has passed for them. If you somehow wired them awake, and fed them power while depriving them of input that would be abusive. The same would go for programming a droid to feel some analogue of pain and then deliberately torturing it. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-droids-be-granted-sentient-rights/563380/35 "2010-12-09T15:53:16Z")
Hey baby…wanna kill all humans? ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-droids-be-granted-sentient-rights/563380/36 "2010-12-09T16:07:49Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > snip. > > Sure, but the sum of our scientific knowledge indicates that while a droid can be torn apart and reassembled with perfect recall and without lasting damage, an organic being cannot. You can always load a copy of the droid’s programming into another set of hardware. Should we get to the point where that is feasible with humans, and everyone has equal access to replacement bodies, I’d advocate the toning down of many of our “rights”. The OP assumes Star Trek Level tech, including transporters, which do tear apart and reassemble organic beings with perfect recall. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-droids-be-granted-sentient-rights/563380/37 "2010-12-09T16:25:35Z")
> [@Mollie\_Magill](#): > > The OP assumes Star Trek Level tech, including transporters, which do tear apart and reassemble organic beings with perfect recall. Is that canon? If so then it makes no sense for characters to die in that universe. Just go back and copy out the last iteration. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-droids-be-granted-sentient-rights/563380/38 "2010-12-09T16:41:44Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > Sure, but the sum of our scientific knowledge indicates that while a droid can be torn apart and reassembled with perfect recall and without lasting damage, an organic being cannot. You can always load a copy of the droid’s programming into another set of hardware. Should we get to the point where that is feasible with humans, and everyone has equal access to replacement bodies, I’d advocate the toning down of many of our “rights”. Even if someone _could_ replace their body after you destroy it without their permission, why should they have to? I do not see how your view on this matter could be morally defensible. It is akin to claiming that the morning after pill has invalidated the right to refuse sex. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-droids-be-granted-sentient-rights/563380/39 "2010-12-09T16:54:35Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Even if someone _could_ replace their body after you destroy it without their permission, why should they have to? > > I do not see how your view on this matter could be morally defensible. It is akin to claiming that the morning after pill has invalidated the right to refuse sex. Not really. Most of our rights have evolved from the logical extension of the permanence of damage. It is serious business to kill someone because once you do that’s it. I wouldn’t advocate revoking the right to life, but I would tone down the penalty for murder if we could simply be loaded into a new clone. Even still, the murderer has presumably put the victim through considerable pain, suffering and inconvenience. That alone is enough to protect organic beings. In your example the damage is not physical, it’s psychological. Something entirely different, and again, permanent. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-droids-be-granted-sentient-rights/563380/40 "2010-12-09T17:21:43Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > Is that canon? If so then it makes no sense for characters to die in that universe. Just go back and copy out the last iteration. It’s taken as a given that the transporter pad tears apart atom by atom what or whoever is being transported. The transporter debate is whether the transporter then creates an exact copy of the transported item in the remote location, or whether it actually transmits the item’s atoms themselves. Personally, I think the question was answered in the matter of Riker v Riker, when both were found to be William Thomas Riker. * * * My opinion on the Debate question: Droids that can fully pass a Turing test (a la Data, Lor, et al.) should be granted asylum in Federation Space upon request. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-droids-be-granted-sentient-rights/563380.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-droids-be-granted-sentient-rights/563380.md?page=3)