# Should elections bar candidates that can't speak English? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 30, 2012, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-elections-bar-candidates-that-cant-speak-english/611169 "2012-01-30T06:46:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![florez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9e5f3/32.png) [@florez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/florez)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2012, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-elections-bar-candidates-that-cant-speak-english/611169/81 "2012-01-31T09:48:41Z")
Despite everything that is going down in Arizona concerning Ms. Cabrera, and the English Only issue, the state is bound for a Hispanic majority within a generation, according to Brookings Institute in Washington. Arizona politicians may need to start looking at the people they are working for, and appreciating the Mexican Culture if they want to get elected in the future. Even sell out Hispanic politicians will have to answer to the people who vote. So why does it seem that a more far sighted approach is so slow in coming. Hispanics are probably already on the way to paying the majority of taxes in the state. Arizona seems to be making a last ditch effort to deny the inevitable, especially with the 2006 English as the official language of the state law, but it is only a matter of time. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2012, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-elections-bar-candidates-that-cant-speak-english/611169/82 "2012-01-31T11:47:57Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > If we really want to keep the idea that these people are welcome and can become part of the fabric of America, we need to have a common denominator. If a city, town, or state embraces Langauge X (any language other than English), we really make that place inhospitable to people who don’t come from Country X. So, let’s say we allow official business in San Luis to be done in Spanish. Not only do mono-lingual native Americans now have to learn another language, but how about immigrants who come from Nigeria, Sweden, China, Thailand, Germany, do they now have to learn yet another language? Yes, they would. This is one of the reasons that a country should have an official language—and just about every one does save the U.S. Where there’s a lot to be said about having an official language, there’s also a lot to be said about permitting the recognition of established national minorities. A city in Arizona that’s 90% Spanish-speaking, dating back to Spanish colonial times, certainly qualifies as an established Spanish-language minority. Even though Arizona’s sole official language is English, I could see at least recognizing Spanish as co-official for certain purposes in such a place. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2012, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-elections-bar-candidates-that-cant-speak-english/611169/83 "2012-01-31T11:48:10Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I scanned the thread and didn’t see one issue addressed, though I may have missed it. America is supposed to be a melting pot, and no, I’m not being quaint here. The fact that this nation is such a draw for immigrants from so many different countries means that we have people speaking over 200 hundred languages. If we really want to keep the idea that these people are welcome and can become part of the fabric of America, we need to have a common denominator. If a city, town, or state embraces Langauge X (any language other than English), we really make that place inhospitable to people who don’t come from Country X. So, let’s say we allow official business in San Luis to be done in Spanish. Not only do mono-lingual native Americans now have to learn another language, but how about immigrants who come from Nigeria, Sweden, China, Thailand, Germany, do they now have to learn yet another language? Yes, they would. This is one of the reasons that a country should have an official language—and just about every one does save the U.S. > > I think it is good that this issue reared its head in this fashion. Maybe it’ll get people to wake up and see the practical benefits to having both an official state language and national language. Perhaps you and likeminded friends there in St. Francis City might get your Hotoven state representatives meeting up in Ordinance City to pass such a law. You could even get fellow believers from St. James, St. Josewph, St. Louis Bishop, and The Angels to show grassroots suport. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2012, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-elections-bar-candidates-that-cant-speak-english/611169/84 "2012-01-31T14:12:44Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I scanned the thread and didn’t see one issue addressed, though I may have missed it. America is supposed to be a melting pot, and no, I’m not being quaint here. The fact that this nation is such a draw for immigrants from so many different countries means that we have people speaking over 200 hundred languages. If we really want to keep the idea that these people are welcome and can become part of the fabric of America, we need to have a common denominator. If a city, town, or state embraces Langauge X (any language other than English), we really make that place inhospitable to people who don’t come from Country X. So, let’s say we allow official business in San Luis to be done in Spanish. Not only do mono-lingual native Americans now have to learn another language, but how about immigrants who come from Nigeria, Sweden, China, Thailand, Germany, do they now have to learn yet another language? Yes, they would. This is one of the reasons that a country should have an official language—and just about every one does save the U.S. > > I think it is good that this issue reared its head in this fashion. Maybe it’ll get people to wake up and see the practical benefits to having both an official state language and national language. I agree completely. The problem is that governmental agencies and services do not exist all alone. They have to liason and report to county, state and federal entities as well. They have to be available to serve all the citizens. I have no problem with the day to day activities of a majority Spanish speaking area being conducted in Spanish, but I would expect nothing less than perfect fluency from those elected to office. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2012, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-elections-bar-candidates-that-cant-speak-english/611169/85 "2012-01-31T15:14:05Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > If no possible evidence can reasonably exist, then your only arguments are fallacious ones. Glad to know we’ve eliminated racism! ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2012, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-elections-bar-candidates-that-cant-speak-english/611169/86 "2012-01-31T15:23:35Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Not only do mono-lingual native Americans Cherokee? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2012, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-elections-bar-candidates-that-cant-speak-english/611169/87 "2012-01-31T15:49:59Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > So, let’s say we allow official business in San Luis to be done in Spanish. Not only do mono-lingual native Americans now have to learn another language, … Spanish would not be instead of English, but in addition to. I’m uncertain what the relevance of your post is to this thread, anyway. As far as I can tell, the city of San Luis is not attempting to make Spanish an official language. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2012, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-elections-bar-candidates-that-cant-speak-english/611169/88 "2012-01-31T19:13:21Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I scanned the thread and didn’t see one issue addressed, though I may have missed it. America is supposed to be a melting pot, and no, I’m not being quaint here. The fact that this nation is such a draw for immigrants from so many different countries means that we have people speaking over 200 hundred languages. If we really want to keep the idea that these people are welcome and can become part of the fabric of America, we need to have a common denominator. If a city, town, or state embraces Langauge X (any language other than English), we really make that place inhospitable to people who don’t come from Country X. So, let’s say we allow official business in San Luis to be done in Spanish. Not only do mono-lingual native Americans now have to learn another language, but how about immigrants who come from Nigeria, Sweden, China, Thailand, Germany, do they now have to learn yet another language? Yes, they would. This is one of the reasons that a country should have an official language—and just about every one does save the U.S. > > I think it is good that this issue reared its head in this fashion. Maybe it’ll get people to wake up and see the practical benefits to having both an official state language and national language. In theory you may be right, but America has long had ethnic neighborhoods where other languages were spoken, and it continues into the present day. Think about all the Chinatowns where even today there are thousands of people who only speak Chinese. There are still places in New York City where Yiddish is more prevalent than English. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-elections-bar-candidates-that-cant-speak-english/611169/89 "2012-02-01T01:50:48Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Just to play devil’s advocate for a second, should the nation’s voters have the option of choosing someone constitutionally ineligible for president? They already have!! [/orly] ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-elections-bar-candidates-that-cant-speak-english/611169/90 "2012-02-01T04:57:43Z")
> [@mnemosyne](#): > > The argument of “she can always equip herself with a team of interpreters” annoys me because of who has to pay for that interpreter - is it acceptable that politicians should go out and hire other people to do basic parts of their jobs for them at taxpayer expense? Why not ? Politicians have people to read and answer their mail, organize their schedules and so forth, don’t they ? Some even have people to write their speeches. Besides, the interpreter could be hired at their own expenses, would that make you feel better ? ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-elections-bar-candidates-that-cant-speak-english/611169/91 "2012-02-01T06:04:42Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Why not ? Politicians have people to read and answer their mail, organize their schedules and so forth, don’t they ? Some even have people to write their speeches. City councillors? I realize they are busy, but not exactly POTUS, you know? I just don’t think it’s a solution to everything - sometimes you just have to go out and learn a second language/whatever skill your job actually needs you to do. Besides, in this economy, don’t people want _smaller_ governments? I guess it’s naïve of me, but I kind of prefer encouraging the election of _competent_ officials to government roles, and being able to talk to the people they will encounter in their jobs is kind of is one of those things I consider to be important. > [@](#): > > Besides, the interpreter could be hired at their own expenses, would that make you feel better ? Sure, if that’s what they want to do. You can do whatever you want with your own money, though I wonder, in that case, if the interpreter would be allowed to see/hear everything the councillor would (confidentiality issues and whatnot). :shrug: I’m perhaps out of my depth in GD, but insomnia and boredom drag me here eventually. I’m a proponent of bilingualism in general and when I feel I have a choice in who to vote for, I consider that a major plus. Any politician that wants to be able to speak for me should be able to do it in both languages and appreciate the linguistic aspects of the culture that I identify with. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-elections-bar-candidates-that-cant-speak-english/611169/92 "2012-02-01T06:09:20Z")
I don’t know how accurate these will turn out to be, but here they are. From: [http://lawmrh.wordpress.com/](http://lawmrh.wordpress.com/) > [@](#): > > Although born in the U.S. and the product of an Arizona high school, Judge Nelson ruled Cabrera wasn’t qualified to run for office because her English language skills were “only a minimal survival range.” From: [http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/26/us/arizona-candidates-english-under-challenge.html?\_r=1&pagewanted=all](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/26/us/arizona-candidates-english-under-challenge.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all) > [@](#): > > “I do feel this opening a box of Pandora, and we don’t know where it’s going to lead,” said Mayor Juan Carlos Escamilla, who filed a legal challenge of Mrs. Cabrera’s English ability. > > He acknowledged on local television that his own English was far from perfect. “I feel I don’t dominate 100 percent, but I can still get by,” said Mr. Escamilla, who graduated from the same Arizona high school as Mrs. Cabrera. “I can write, read and understand it very well.”… And also from the above link… > [@](#): > > But Mrs. Cabrera said the fact that Professor Eggington was from Australia led to at least one misunderstanding during the assessment. He asked her about “summer,” which she said he pronounced “summa.” That is the nickname for the community of Somerton, prompting her to be utterly confused. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-elections-bar-candidates-that-cant-speak-english/611169/93 "2012-02-01T06:16:03Z")
In my opinion, completing all requirements necessary to earn a high school diploma in the state in question is sufficient evidence of proficiency. Perhaps it’s the education requirements that need to be reviewed? ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-elections-bar-candidates-that-cant-speak-english/611169/94 "2012-02-01T06:54:52Z")
> [@](#): > > But Mrs. Cabrera said the fact that Professor Eggington was from Australia led to at least one misunderstanding during the assessment. He asked her about “summer,” which she said he pronounced “summa.” That is the nickname for the community of Somerton, prompting her to be utterly confused. In other words, how dare Mrs. Cabrera not speak english like a _white_ person. Golly gee, conservatives saying we are not allowed to call a racist duck a racist duck unless there is a bloody glove, smoking gun, and literal tearful confession of racism. Surprise surprise. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-elections-bar-candidates-that-cant-speak-english/611169/95 "2012-02-01T12:38:41Z")
> [@mnemosyne](#): > > > [@Kobal2](#): > > > > Why not ? Politicians have people to read and answer their mail, organize their schedules and so forth, don’t they ? Some even have people to write their speeches. > > City councillors? I realize they are busy, but not exactly POTUS, you know? Maybe not city councillors (although cities often do hire translators, especially cities where more than one language is spoken) but the comment about bringing a team of interpreters was regarding the (prospective) premier of Quebec, which is somewhat of a step higher. > [@](#): > > :shrug: I’m perhaps out of my depth in GD, but insomnia and boredom drag me here eventually. I’m a proponent of bilingualism in general and when I feel I have a choice in who to vote for, I consider that a major plus. Any politician that wants to be able to speak for me should be able to do it in both languages and appreciate the linguistic aspects of the culture that I identify with. I also think learning new languages is always a good idea, and that it actually isn’t much of an imposition. But you’re certainly aware of the typical anti-bilingualism argument used in Canada: it shouldn’t be necessary where only one language is spoken. I’m not saying I necessarily agree with that, or that you do either, but it’s a very common argument. And, as an example, as pointed out earlier, the little city in Arizona where the events described in the OP happened is 90% Spanish speaking, and must function in English only because Arizona is rather severe in enforcing the use of English as its only official language. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-elections-bar-candidates-that-cant-speak-english/611169/96 "2012-02-01T14:45:10Z")
> [@](#): > > “I do feel this opening a box of Pandora, and we don’t know where it’s going to lead,” said Mayor Juan Carlos Escamilla, who filed a legal challenge of Mrs. Cabrera’s English ability. Apparently, even the fluent English speakers in the community communicate in Engrish. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-elections-bar-candidates-that-cant-speak-english/611169/97 "2012-02-01T15:39:44Z")
Wait, her English proficiency was assessed by a person from AUSTRALIA? I can’t understand what the hell they’re saying, and I’ve spoken English my entire life. ---
**Author:** ![Waenara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/50afbb/32.png) [@Waenara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waenara)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-elections-bar-candidates-that-cant-speak-english/611169/98 "2012-02-02T02:20:08Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Wait, her English proficiency was assessed by a person from AUSTRALIA? I can’t understand what the hell they’re saying, and I’ve spoken English my entire life. And why the hell would they even need to have a person assess her English by doing an interview? If I were the town official and wanted to be impartial and fair, I’d use an objective measurement tool like the [TOEFL](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOEFL) or some other comprehension test, either instead of or in addition to the interview. An rather than having an interview by a random outsider, I’d make it relevant to the job - maybe have her watch a tape of a city council meeting and then ask her comprehension questions about what was discussed at the meeting. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-elections-bar-candidates-that-cant-speak-english/611169.md?page=4)