# Should every TV/movie/book cast be as diverse as possible? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 9, 2009, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-every-tv-movie-book-cast-be-as-diverse-as-possible/505822 "2009-08-09T08:19:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-every-tv-movie-book-cast-be-as-diverse-as-possible/505822/1 "2009-08-09T08:19:34Z")
Reading over the race-based tropes on TV Tropes, many of the criticisms came from tokenism, or else lack of any members of race/sexual orientation X in a certain work. I realize that both of those are things to be avoided, especially since it shows that the American “default” (and thus defacto “normal”) is still white heterosexual male. Still, it makes me wonder exactly what the “ideal” becomes. Does every cast need at least two of every major ethnicity and sexual orientation? What do you do if your main characters are limited in number? The blithe assumption that creators and casting directors should “do something” without giving thought to what it entails annoys me to no end. Any thoughts from the great masses out there? ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-every-tv-movie-book-cast-be-as-diverse-as-possible/505822/2 "2009-08-09T08:28:48Z")
(I should add that TV Tropes itself notes that this diversity impulse is often [done very poorly.](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FiveTokenBand) So what I guess I’m asking is, what is the “right” way, if there is any? What sort of thought should be put into it?) ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-every-tv-movie-book-cast-be-as-diverse-as-possible/505822/3 "2009-08-09T11:43:04Z")
I think it should be purely up to the author/creator; their work, their choice. The thing is, as nice as it is to promote a multicultural rainbow village view of the world, it’s not really like that. For example, there aren’t _that_ many “out” gay people in most people’s daily lives- so while it’s all well and good to insist on a gay character in every fictional work, that’s just as unrealistic as pretending there are no gay people at all. In lots of (English-speaking) places the “Norm” _is_ white heterosexual people, just as if I was reading a book by a Saudi writer about a Bedouin living in the Arabian Desert, I’d expect all the characters to be Muslims and if I was reading a book about a Tibetan Monk I’d expect the characters to be Buddhists from Tibet. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-every-tv-movie-book-cast-be-as-diverse-as-possible/505822/4 "2009-08-09T11:56:21Z")
I don’t know why people are so goddamn _obsessed_ with the idea of diversity. Diversity is not some kind of magical elixir that makes everything in life better. If someone wants to write a book or television show with “diverse” characters, fine. But it’s up to the author. Unfortunately I think we’ll get to a point where it will be officially mandated by the producers or someone else that every TV show has X number of every racial group. Recently watching “Twin Peaks” I thought to myself, “every single person on this show is white.” It was a weird thought because everything nowadays is so diverse (often in a tokenistic and forced way.) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-every-tv-movie-book-cast-be-as-diverse-as-possible/505822/5 "2009-08-09T12:13:25Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Recently watching “Twin Peaks” I thought to myself, “every single person on this show is white.” Well, except Joan Chen. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-every-tv-movie-book-cast-be-as-diverse-as-possible/505822/6 "2009-08-09T12:16:56Z")
OK, this is a good point, and it’s one of the reasons why her character was so intriguing - she was this Chinese woman, extremely exotic and alluring, who had somehow wound up in a little logging town in northern Washington State. If there were a bunch of other people on the show who weren’t white, her character would not have been as special. Deputy Hawk was also, obviously, not white. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-every-tv-movie-book-cast-be-as-diverse-as-possible/505822/7 "2009-08-09T12:42:18Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > I don’t know why people are so goddamn _obsessed_ with the idea of diversity TV tropes offers what I think is the most likely explanation: “This is usually a very obvious ploy to increase demographic appeal.” Rightly or wrongly, producers of TV and movies think people are more likely to tune into a show that has a representative of their demographic. That said, I’m not really convinced that this is that common a phenomenon. A lot of examples in the TV tropes page are pretty weak. The most common place I see it is not in TV or movies but in advertisements, where there’s always exactly one white person, one asian, one hispanic and one black person, very close to 50% of which are woman, enjoying whatever product is being sold. My gf in college was one of the few asian woman that attended our school. She appears in pretty much every brochure the college produced during our four years there. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-every-tv-movie-book-cast-be-as-diverse-as-possible/505822/8 "2009-08-09T12:48:52Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Recently watching “Twin Peaks” I thought to myself, “every single person on this show is white.” I know. Almost as if it was taking place in a state where 90% of the populace is white and the blacks live mainly in the cities. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-every-tv-movie-book-cast-be-as-diverse-as-possible/505822/9 "2009-08-09T13:03:06Z")
I watched the movie Unforgiven for the millionth time last night and was struck by the fact that nobody ever mentioned/alluded to the fact that Morgan Freeman’s character was black. This is in the old west a few years after the civil war and nobody notices a black man riding with two whites. Seemed strange. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-every-tv-movie-book-cast-be-as-diverse-as-possible/505822/10 "2009-08-09T17:32:03Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > I watched the movie Unforgiven for the millionth time last night and was struck by the fact that nobody ever mentioned/alluded to the fact that Morgan Freeman’s character was black. This is in the old west a few years after the civil war and nobody notices a black man riding with two whites. Seemed strange. [Seems about right](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowboy#Ethnicity_of_the_traditional_cowboy), actually. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-every-tv-movie-book-cast-be-as-diverse-as-possible/505822/11 "2009-08-09T17:44:25Z")
I know a lot of criticisms are leveled at shows that take place in Manhattan but where we see nary a dark face. “Friends” or “Sex and the City.” Heck, on Sex and the City, I don’t think we saw a Jewish character till Charlotte’s beau/husband, Harry in season five. ---
**Author:** ![BiblioCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@BiblioCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BiblioCat)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-every-tv-movie-book-cast-be-as-diverse-as-possible/505822/12 "2009-08-09T19:05:29Z")
Miranda dated Blair Underwood on _S&TC_, and Ross dated a black woman (Charlie, I forget who played her) on _Friends_. It wasn’t much, but it was something. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-every-tv-movie-book-cast-be-as-diverse-as-possible/505822/13 "2009-08-09T19:11:11Z")
> [@BiblioCat](#): > > Miranda dated Blair Underwood on _S&TC_, and Ross dated a black woman (Charlie, I forget who played her) on _Friends_. It wasn’t much, but it was something. True. But I get the feeling that those happened after people had already started complaining about the lack of diverse casts on the show. In fact, I know that people complained specifically about Charlie as pandering. ---
**Author:** ![BiblioCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@BiblioCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BiblioCat)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-every-tv-movie-book-cast-be-as-diverse-as-possible/505822/14 "2009-08-09T19:16:30Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > True. But I get the feeling that those happened after people had already started complaining about the lack of diverse casts on the show. In fact, I know that people complained specifically about Charlie as pandering. Oh, I have no doubt. But at least they tried. Wasn’t Carrie supposed to be Jewish? Non-practicing, of course. I always thought she was. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-every-tv-movie-book-cast-be-as-diverse-as-possible/505822/15 "2009-08-09T19:18:05Z")
> [@BiblioCat](#): > > Oh, I have no doubt. But at least they tried. > Wasn’t Carrie supposed to be Jewish? Non-practicing, of course. I always thought she was. I think so. I was wondering myself and looked it up and it said that SJP herself is Jewish. I don’t know what that means for Carrie but I had thought she was… ETA: Well, I was wondering when I posted that about Harry being the only Jewish character. I guess his is the only one brought up. ---
**Author:** ![C.Montgomery\_Burns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecd19e/32.png) [@C.Montgomery\_Burns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C.Montgomery_Burns)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-every-tv-movie-book-cast-be-as-diverse-as-possible/505822/16 "2009-08-09T19:32:55Z")
I have no problem with the “lack of diversity” in most shows. Friends takes a lot of hits for being an all-white cast. I don’t see this as a problem because they live in an affluent neighborhood, all with similar interests, and I’m sure the other people who live in their neighborhood are much the same. Despite what people say, there _are_ background extras of different ethnicity in places like Central Perk. It would bother me a lot more if a show like Scrubs was all-white. Having a black and Latina character in the main cast adds depth to story lines that wouldn’t be there if Turk and Carla were white. Also, it simply wouldn’t be right for a hospital in a large city in California to not have a diverse staff. Simply put, cast diversity is great. But it’s not necessary if it’s simply not realistic in the setting of the show. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-every-tv-movie-book-cast-be-as-diverse-as-possible/505822/17 "2009-08-09T19:36:14Z")
Of course not. It should be whatever best fits the story and how the author sees fit. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-every-tv-movie-book-cast-be-as-diverse-as-possible/505822/18 "2009-08-09T22:18:30Z")
I like it when you have a member of a minority group just playing a character without being a cardboard cut out stereotype member of said group. A good example of this is Tim Kangs character in the Mentalist. He;s cocky,shrewd and on occassions amusing or narcissistic,buts he’s NEVER that chinese bloke on the team and does.'t get constantly asked about buddhism or FengShui. And on the odd occasion when he is asked a question on that sort of topic he’s as clueless as everyone else. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-every-tv-movie-book-cast-be-as-diverse-as-possible/505822/19 "2009-08-09T22:30:24Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > The most common place I see it is not in TV or movies but in advertisements, where there’s always exactly one white person, one asian, one hispanic and one black person, very close to 50% of which are woman, enjoying whatever product is being sold. And very often the non-white person is a woman. Two ‘minorities’ for the price of one! > [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > Of course not. It should be whatever best fits the story and how the author sees fit. Agreed, with a caveat. If the author sees fit to set his story in an area where there are people of all different races and only includes people of one race, then his story suffers for it - it’s harder to suspend disbelief. This is truer for visual media than for books. The film Notting Hill was notable for being set in an area of London that has a huge Afro-Caribbean community, but without a single black character, even as an extra in the background. The TV show Eastenders also has this problem, in that the Eastend of London is massively racially diverse and the show is mostly about white British people, again for the extras as well as the main characters. This is, to be fair, partly because there just aren’t all that many dramatic actors here whose origins lie in the Indian subcontinent (the biggest non-white British ethnic grouping in the Eastend), and the show has got slightly better about being more representative over the years. If the show were set in a small village in, say, Norfolk, the racial mix presented would make more sense. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-every-tv-movie-book-cast-be-as-diverse-as-possible/505822/20 "2009-08-09T23:03:13Z")
I think it depends on the particular setting. It makes sense for shows like ER and Law & Order to have diverse casts. Imagine L&O if it had all-white cast. It wouldn’t make sense, given the make-up of the criminal justice system and NYC. However, a show like _The Sopranos_ wouldn’t make sense if there were a lot of non-Italian/white characters thrown in it, even though the show is set in very racially diverse northern NJ. And when non-Italians (or whites) are featured, they’re used realistically, not like props. One blatant example of tokenism that I can think of is the black best friend in the movie “The Devil Wears Prada”. That character just didn’t reasonate as realistic to me for reasons I’m unable to articulate. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-every-tv-movie-book-cast-be-as-diverse-as-possible/505822.md?page=2)