# Should ex-felons be allowed to vote? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 30, 2007, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ex-felons-be-allowed-to-vote/402189 "2007-04-30T17:56:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sunrazor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sunrazor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunrazor)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ex-felons-be-allowed-to-vote/402189/1 "2007-04-30T17:56:06Z")
Talk about being naive! I always thought that all Americans were automatically guaranteed the right to vote, except those who were actually serving some sort of prison or jail term, on parole or on probation. Apparently, according to [Slate.com](http://www.slate.com/id/2165134?nav=tap3) that’s not true. What surprises me is that Slate, that liberal bastion of civil rights, is aghast that former inmates are being registered to vote. I understand there could be some exposure to vote fraud (a criminal mind will always look for a way to beat the system, I suppose) but I hardly see that as a widespread threat to life and liberty. I’ve never heard of anyone killing 32 people in 9 minutes with illegal votes. So, am I really naive to think that citizens who have served their sentences fully should be allowed to vote again? Or do I completely misunderstand the situation? ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ex-felons-be-allowed-to-vote/402189/2 "2007-04-30T18:10:42Z")
I’ve never understood the argument against allowing ex-felons to vote. Supposedly, voting is a privilege, and supposedly being convicted means you lose that privilege. I’ve always believed that voting isn’t a privilege, or even a right- it’s a responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ex-felons-be-allowed-to-vote/402189/3 "2007-04-30T18:20:19Z")
I don’t think anyone ought to lose any of their civil rights without due process. That said, losing your right to vote is an appropriate penalty for conviction of a felony, especially when combined with others. Now, I also support a robust and responsive pardon system so that people who do reform their lives can get their right to vote back. I don’t think it ought to be automatic, though, just as the penalty imposed upon them wasn’t automatic in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ex-felons-be-allowed-to-vote/402189/4 "2007-04-30T18:33:53Z")
We’ve had a lot of threads on this, going back, I would not be surprised, to 2000 (when [Florida purged its voter rolls of “felons”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Central_Voter_File#Pre-election_cleansing)). Do a search. Or, to get started, see [here.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony_disenfranchisement) ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ex-felons-be-allowed-to-vote/402189/5 "2007-04-30T18:58:01Z")
We really need a Constitutional amendment enshrining the right to vote in the Constitution. If you’re an American citizen over 18, and not in prison, in an insane asylum, or in a coma, your right to vote should be absolute. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ex-felons-be-allowed-to-vote/402189/6 "2007-04-30T18:59:44Z")
Former prosecutor here. Once you’ve paid your debt to society, including prison, community service, fines, restitution and/or probation, you should be restored to your full rights as a citizen, _including_ the right to vote, IMHO. I don’t favor a lifetime loss of the right to vote upon conviction. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ex-felons-be-allowed-to-vote/402189/7 "2007-04-30T19:06:43Z")
[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir] Former prosecutor here. Once you’ve paid your debt to society, including prison, community service, fines, restitution and/or probation, you should be restored to your **full rights as a citizen** , _including_ the right to vote, IMHO. I don’t favor a lifetime loss of the right to vote upon conviction. [/QUOTE] Bolding mine. Do you think someone who has similarly paid his full debt to society after committing armed robbery ought to be permitted to own firearms again? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ex-felons-be-allowed-to-vote/402189/8 "2007-04-30T19:07:10Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] We really need a Constitutional amendment enshrining the right to vote in the Constitution. [/QUOTE] [Jesse Jackson, Jr., to the rescue!](http://www.house.gov/apps/list/speech/il02_jackson/050618NeededVotingRightsAmendment.html) ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ex-felons-be-allowed-to-vote/402189/9 "2007-04-30T19:25:14Z")
I think that _current_ prisoners should have the right to vote. I’ve never been clear on the arguments for not letting them vote. The point of inprisonment shouldn’t be to alienate people from society as much as possible. It should be to restrict their freedoms to protect society from their actions, and to (ideally) teach them that actions have consequences. I can’t imagine that not being able to vote provides much of a deterrent. It just distorts the political landscape, especially given the disproportional conviction rates of certain classes. I think that prisoners having the right to vote helps protect against some kinds of systematic abuse of the justice system. If convicted prisoners are ever a sizeable voting bloc, then you probably have some important issues to work out. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ex-felons-be-allowed-to-vote/402189/10 "2007-04-30T19:26:38Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] Bolding mine. Do you think someone who has similarly paid his full debt to society after committing armed robbery ought to be permitted to own firearms again? [/QUOTE] I think that’s a little different. There is no harm being done by voting. It is a punishment that has no connection to the crime that was committed. I think it’s wrong for a citizen to lose the right to vote _even when they’re in prison._ ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ex-felons-be-allowed-to-vote/402189/11 "2007-04-30T19:30:20Z")
[QUOTE=iamthewalrus(:3=] I think that _current_ prisoners should have the right to vote. I’ve never been clear on the arguments for not letting them vote. [/QUOTE] How would you address the problem that those prisoners would be a very large voting bloc in local elections, especially in small towns that are home to a state or federal prison? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ex-felons-be-allowed-to-vote/402189/12 "2007-04-30T19:35:49Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] I think that’s a little different. [/QUOTE] Not so different at all, actually. In both cases, an individual’s constitutional rights are being removed from him for the rest of his life through the process of law and as a punishment for crimes committed. Yet, presumably, you would have no problem with lifetime gun prohibition (as, indeed, I wouldn’t) yet you have an issue with the denial of the vote. I think it is clear that both are constitutional, and I believe both are wise. As I said before, the restoration of these rights properly ought to be individually reviewed, and the pardon system seems as good a place for this as any - itself being constitutionally authorized. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ex-felons-be-allowed-to-vote/402189/13 "2007-04-30T19:36:30Z")
I don’t see what difference that makes. Most voters are not as informed as we’d hope they’d be. I don’t see what bearing being a convict has on voting. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ex-felons-be-allowed-to-vote/402189/14 "2007-04-30T19:49:49Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] I don’t see what bearing being a convict has on voting. [/QUOTE] You don’t? Really? The general principle that people that cannot follow the law ought not be allowed to make it doesn’t persuade you at all? Anyway, it is clear that disenfranchisement of felons is constitutional, as it is in the Constitution: > [@](#): > > Amendment 14 - Citizenship Rights. > 2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice-President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, **except for participation in rebellion, or other crime** , the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State. It is clear that denying the vote is explicitly constitutional on the basis of this paragraph, and the Supreme Court has said as much in felon disenfranchisement cases citing it. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ex-felons-be-allowed-to-vote/402189/15 "2007-04-30T19:49:51Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] How would you address the problem that those prisoners would be a very large voting bloc in local elections, especially in small towns that are home to a state or federal prison? [/QUOTE] Well, if they live there, why shouldn’t they be able to vote on local issues? But a more sensible solution would be to allow them to vote absentee at their last address before going to prison. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ex-felons-be-allowed-to-vote/402189/16 "2007-04-30T19:52:31Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] You don’t? Really? The general principle that people that cannot follow the law ought not be allowed to make it doesn’t persuade you at all? Anyway, it is clear that disenfranchisement of felons is constitutional, as it is in the Constitution: It is clear that denying the vote is explicitly constitutional on the basis of this paragraph, and the Supreme Court has said as much in felon disenfranchisement cases citing it. [/QUOTE] If that made any logical sense at all, nearly the entire population would be forbidden to vote because of their inability to follow posted speed limits. ---
**Author:** ![LilShieste](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9f8e36/32.png) [@LilShieste](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilShieste)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ex-felons-be-allowed-to-vote/402189/17 "2007-04-30T19:54:28Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] How would you address the problem that those prisoners would be a very large voting bloc in local elections, especially in small towns that are home to a state or federal prison? [/QUOTE] Why is this a problem? They might vote a corrupt politician into office? I agree with **RTFirefly** , **Elendil’s Heir** , et al. - once a person is done serving their sentence for the felony, they should no longer be barred from voting. LilShieste ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ex-felons-be-allowed-to-vote/402189/18 "2007-04-30T19:56:51Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] If that made any logical sense at all, nearly the entire population would be forbidden to vote because of their inability to follow posted speed limits. [/QUOTE] Well, this is why it is typically reserved to _felons_, you know. Part of that great balancing act we call civil society. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ex-felons-be-allowed-to-vote/402189/19 "2007-04-30T19:58:14Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] Not so different at all, actually. In both cases, an individual’s constitutional rights are being removed from him for the rest of his life through the process of law and as a punishment for crimes committed. Yet, presumably, you would have no problem with lifetime gun prohibition (as, indeed, I wouldn’t) yet you have an issue with the denial of the vote. [/quote] Because there is a direct connection between the crime and the extended deprivation of the Constitutional right - if it is that. (That’s part of the mix too: there are conflicting rulings by circuit courts as to whether the right to bear arms is an individual right. IANAL, but I suspect it would be much more problematic to deprive someone of an unquestioned Constitutional right indefinitely beyond their prison term.) > [@](#): > > As I said before, the restoration of these rights properly ought to be individually reviewed, and the pardon system seems as good a place for this as any - itself being constitutionally authorized. Why? Why shouldn’t someone who’s “paid their debt to society” be automatically brought back into society in this basic way? There’s no reason to believe that voting will somehow make it easier for them to yield to the temptation of committing new crimes. You’re placing a burden here in the apparent absence of a reason, beyond ‘I think this is the way it ought to be.’ Moreover, to the extent that we allow pardon and parole boards, operating in near-invisibility to the public at large, to determine whether ex-inmates get their voting rights/privileges/whatever back, the exercise of the franchise, for these people, is subject to the arbitrary and capricious prejudices of such boards. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ex-felons-be-allowed-to-vote/402189/20 "2007-04-30T20:02:11Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] Well, this is why it is typically reserved to _felons_, you know. Part of that great balancing act we call civil society. [/QUOTE] And part of that balancing act is that once you’ve served your sentence, it should not continue to impact the rest of your life; particularly when the crime was completely unrelated. Now, if someone were convicted of vote fraud, you _might_ have a case. Though once the sentence has been served, I think they should be free to resume a life with all the rights other citizens have. And I don’t care if it’s constitutional or not. That doesn’t make it right. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ex-felons-be-allowed-to-vote/402189.md?page=2)