Should Executions Be Made Public Again?

[Anarcho_Liberalist]

@Damuri_Ajashi

Wait. What the fuck?!?!:mad:

Would you say the same thing about abortions? Should we show little kids the gory details of abortions too?:dubious:

I dont want to make this into an anti-choice v pro-abortion thread, but you provoked me…

1. The community, by way of the courts, sentences people to death. Abortion on the other hand is a woman’s individual choice, not a sentence from the community
2. I would not be opposed to the broadcast of an abortion on TV - it’s not much different from the avarage health care programme about open heart surgery (or don’t you have those in the US?)
3. I know I’m a noob, but I hope rhetoric is not strictly forbidden on the SDMB. My main point is that I’m opposed to the death penalty and I made the secundary point that if you’re pro death penalty on philosophical and ideological grounds, you still have to deal with the (in my view inhumane) practicalities somehow.

@Damuri_Ajashi

Its like you are literally wishing bad shit on the children of your ideological opponents because you think that makes your argument stronger of something. Or you just hate them so much that you wish bad shit on their children.

I don’t hate. Again: any ideological stand point is OK by me, but then you have to face the practical consequences of that choice as well.

@Damuri_Ajashi

We shield our kids from all sorts of gory shit and for good reason. They are not mentally and emotionally prepared to deal with some of these issues. Apparently some adults aren’t emotionally and mentally prepared either.

I agree with you in a general sense, but we may have different thresholds. I personally think we shield our kids a little too much at this time in history.

[Bert_Nobbins]

@Tom_Tildrum

I think televised executions would electrify the public and would be a shot in the arm to death penalty advocates.

[Quartz]

@tom tildrum

i think televised executions would electrify the public and would be a shot in the arm to death penalty advocates.

iswydt

[usedtobe]

I am one of those lefties who supports the death penalty.

Does it deter? Probably not.

It does, however, end recidivism. And is much cheaper then warehousing someone for 60 years (see: Charles Manson).
It also frees up prison space.

Death by either hanging or firing squad, in a public space. Penal system provides live video feed for anyone who wants to transmit or record.

I’m open to suggestions as to venue.
I am not opposed to selling tickets - the creep caused a huge expense to the State, and maybe a bit can be recouped.

[Smapti]

Like usedtobe, I’m a liberal. I’m strongly in favor of the death penalty. And I’m strongly in favor of public executions. When people commit these kinds of crimes, it’s not just their victim that is wronged, but the entire society, the public has the right to see justice done, and those who might be contemplating a criminal act might be better deterred if they bear actual witness to the inevitable consequences of those deeds.

I wouldn’t sell tickets. Hold the execution in a space open to the public, by hanging (suspension or short-drop), beheading, or burning. Put it on TV for free.

[Do_Not_Taunt]

Yeah! Furthermore, choose a random member of the public to perform the execution. If he refuses, the condemned goes free and the random public member takes his place. Goto step 1.

Or just abolish the thing. At least until we stop erroneously convicted people of murder.

[Procrustus]

@usedtobe

And is much cheaper then warehousing someone for 60 years (see: Charles Manson).
It also frees up prison space.

Everything I’ve seen says it’s much more expensive.

And, I’m sure there are better ways to free up prison space.

[Procrustus]

@Damuri_Ajashi

I think the average execution takes between 7 to 11 years. At least one study concluded that you deter one additional murder for every 2.7 years you reduce the time between conviction and execution.

I’m very skeptical of such a study. I’d like to read it, if you can find a cite. It’s hard enough to believe someone in a state of being ready to kill someone would stop and consider the time between conviction and execution as a factor in their decision. 1) they don’t expect to get caught, 2) if they worry about being caught and convicted, I cannot imagine the prospect of a longer time on death row makes the death penalty more palatable. I would guess it would be quite the opposite.

[Horatio_Hellpop]

I say no. Back when hangings were public, they were not sober, high-minded events that underscored personal responsibility and the sanctity of life; they were public entertainments, and people brought picnic lunches. My hunch is that the entertainment value of a defendant might have heavily influenced whether or not he was sentenced to death, more often than we’d like to admit.

[Procrustus]

@Horatio_Hellpop

I say no. Back when hangings were public, they were not sober, high-minded events that underscored personal responsibility and the sanctity of life; they were public entertainments, and people brought picnic lunches. My hunch is that the entertainment value of a defendant might have heavily influenced whether or not he was sentenced to death, more often than we’d like to admit.

And the crime rate went up after each execution.

In the 19th century, "it was common knowledge that execution day crowds were often mischievous, with alcohol consumption and pickpockets regularly associated with public hangings. Rioting at public hangings also was not uncommon.

[Gatopescado]

@Bridget_Burke

Why supply violence porn for the sickies?

Yeah. That’s Hollywood’s and video game maker’s job!

[Damuri_Ajashi]

@Bricker

So far as I am aware, each study that does this has counted all homicides, as opposed to just those homicides in which a conviction could result in the death penalty – this seems like a flawed approach.

I welcome correction on the point.

If I could prove that the death penalty for capital murder reduced rapes, then why would that not be a valid measure of the deterrent value of the death penalty. Why only count capital murders?

Is there something about the other murders that aren’t worth deterring?

I do not argue that it has the opposite effect, although I agree it cheapens life.

Others do.

[Damuri_Ajashi]

@Procrustus

Everything I’ve seen says it’s much more expensive.

And, I’m sure there are better ways to free up prison space.

It depends. Death row incarceration is more expensive than general population incarceration but the execution itself is pretty cheap (or can be).

[Damuri_Ajashi]

@Procrustus

I’m very skeptical of such a study. I’d like to read it, if you can find a cite. It’s hard enough to believe someone in a state of being ready to kill someone would stop and consider the time between conviction and execution as a factor in their decision. 1) they don’t expect to get caught, 2) if they worry about being caught and convicted, I cannot imagine the prospect of a longer time on death row makes the death penalty more palatable. I would guess it would be quite the opposite.

The additional deterrence comes from the immediacy of the punishment. If someone sits in jail for a decade before he is executed, it becomes harder to associate the execution with the crime.

I can’t find the cite to the study but here is a cite to an article that makes reference to the study:

Does Death Penalty Save Lives? A New Debate (Published 2007)

[Damuri_Ajashi]

@Procrustus

And the crime rate went up after each execution.

Wait, saying that the spectacle of executions provided a venue for pickpockets to ply their trade is not really relevant is it?

[Damuri_Ajashi]

@Anarcho_Liberalist

I dont want to make this into an anti-choice v pro-abortion thread, but you provoked me…

1. The community, by way of the courts, sentences people to death. Abortion on the other hand is a woman’s individual choice, not a sentence from the community
2. I would not be opposed to the broadcast of an abortion on TV - it’s not much different from the avarage health care programme about open heart surgery (or don’t you have those in the US?)
3. I know I’m a noob, but I hope rhetoric is not strictly forbidden on the SDMB. My main point is that I’m opposed to the death penalty and I made the secundary point that if you’re pro death penalty on philosophical and ideological grounds, you still have to deal with the (in my view inhumane) practicalities somehow.

I don’t hate. Again: any ideological stand point is OK by me, but then you have to face the practical consequences of that choice as well.

I agree with you in a general sense, but we may have different thresholds. I personally think we shield our kids a little too much at this time in history.

Facing the “practical consequences” of the death penalty does not require exposing kindergarten children to executions. The practical consequences are that you will occasionally fuck up and those fuck ups will disproportionately be at the expense of a black man convicted of murdering a white victim. Another practical consequence is that you are likely to save 3 to 18 lives for each of those executions (erroneous or otherwise).

So the question is whether you are willing to execute an innocent man along with 19 guilty men to save 60 to 360 lives (some, but not all, of those lives are innocents). I don’t see how people can consider things to be so clear cut.

[Trinopus]

@Damuri_Ajashi

An execution is not the same thing as coliseum games.

Coliseum games, no. They play basketball there.

Colosseum games, yes: they used to execute prisoners there.

It would be embarrassing to get the wrong venue.

[octopus]

There is a problem with the death penalty in America. The problem is the conflict of interest between the police and the prosecutors vs seeking justice. With our lack of LEO and prosecutorial accountability I can’t in good conscience advocate for the death penalty.

And those who wish for prisoners to be raped ought to be ashamed.

[Tim_T-Bonham.net]

@Anarcho_Liberalist

If not, than be a man about it and have the guts to show the gory practical details to the world, including your children and grandchildren in kindergarten.

My step-granddaughter will never be in kindergarten, because she was beaten & stomped to death as a 2-year-old.

The guy that did it is in prison for 25 years, and that is twice the normal sentence. And he’ll probably only serve about 2/3rds of that.

I used to be strongly opposed to the death penalty. I’m not so sure any more.

[coremelt]

@Damuri_Ajashi

Facing the “practical consequences” of the death penalty does not require exposing kindergarten children to executions.
.

Nope, but I think its reasonable that 17-18 year olds would be shown video of executions in high school as part of educating them about the US legal system. (At least in those states that have the death sentence).