# Should extended family give stepchildren the same gifts as their biological kin? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 10, 2013, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-extended-family-give-stepchildren-the-same-gifts-as-their-biological-kin/663182 "2013-07-10T23:26:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-extended-family-give-stepchildren-the-same-gifts-as-their-biological-kin/663182/81 "2013-07-18T11:54:03Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Yes, and the intention is to favor one child over the other, which is poisonous for a family. There is no reason to accept gifts that hurt your children. And the children were hurt how? They’re 7-12 years older than their half siblings, certainly are perfectly aware and comprehend the situation, especially since they themselves receive gifts from their own biological grandparents when their half-siblings don’t (but that is apparently OK because said gifts stay at mom’s place) The only people whose feelings were hurt were the OP and his spouse. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-extended-family-give-stepchildren-the-same-gifts-as-their-biological-kin/663182/82 "2013-07-18T12:08:27Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > This isn’t really about gifts, it’s about the need for children to be accepted, or at least treated, like full members of the family they happen to be, despite their poor planning in checking the blended family box when they were born. 10 and 13 year olds are still very much children with many years of close family life ahead. They crave and need, above all else, to belong to that family. > . You don’t know that. Especially the 13 yo. IMO, it’s more probable that not that he couldn’t give a rat’s ass about feeling included in his sibling greatgrandma’s family. And the OP never stated that his children have raised or resented this issue in any way shape or form. And why would they, since they get “unequal” presents too? ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-extended-family-give-stepchildren-the-same-gifts-as-their-biological-kin/663182/83 "2013-07-18T14:39:25Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Yes, and the intention is to favor one child over the other, which is poisonous for a family. There is no reason to accept gifts that hurt your children. Then I suggest the OP move to an isolated island because life and rest of the world as we know it is going to be poisonous to their family. The older kids don’t seem to even notice this non-issue. And even if they did it would be a good lesson in how everyone’s definition of family and the reponsibilities in regard to them is not the same. The younger ones will notice as they grow older and can grow to resent or hate their older half-siblings as a result (children can be very materialistic at times). Trust me, that can be very poisonous for a family. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-extended-family-give-stepchildren-the-same-gifts-as-their-biological-kin/663182/84 "2013-07-18T14:47:19Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > I’d say that’s a pretty different situation than living side by side in the same nuclear family with a sibling who is favored. “Nana doesn’t like your mom” doesn’t have the same emotional effect as “Nana likes your sister, but doesn’t care about you.” > > The half-siblings in blended families with full bio kids already deal with complex feelings. Even if the step-parent is an absolute angel, it’s impossible to entirely shake the suspicion that you are the odd man out, the third wheel or otherwise an unwanted reminder of a past failure that is just getting in the way of the happy bio family. It helps- a lot- that step parent takes active steps to advocate for you. Great point. The older kids already worried when we had our first bio kid together (after my wife had been a stepmom but not a bio mom for a couple years) that now that we were having kids together, the older ones would be kind of leftovers (and as you say, even a reminder of a past, failed relationship). We want to do everything possible to counteract that, and making nice with a lady who blatantly encourages that blow to self esteem is not the way to do it. (That we have so far concealed this from them is irrelevant.) > [@clairobscur](#): > > No. Any other question and implied insult? At least one other poster answered “Yes”. ---
**Author:** ![SaxFace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@SaxFace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaxFace)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-extended-family-give-stepchildren-the-same-gifts-as-their-biological-kin/663182/85 "2013-07-18T16:31:04Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > This isn’t really about gifts, it’s about the need for children to be accepted, or at least treated, like full members of the family they happen to be, despite their poor planning in checking the blended family box when they were born. 10 and 13 year olds are still very much children with many years of close family life ahead. They crave and need, above all else, to belong to that family. > > Of course people have favorites. Parents have favorites too. But part one of the responsibilities of being a grown up is not letting your personal feelings hurt kids. The whole subject of this thread is the about the gifts. Even the e-mail that was sent only talks about gifting: > [@SlackerInc](#): > > ``` > Dear Grandma and Grandpa, > > ``` > > … > All that being said, and I want to note that no one else has noticed this yet, but it is upsetting to me that [younger daughter’s name] and [younger son’s name] receive birthday cards and gifts, but not [older son’s name] and [older daughter’s name]. I am not suggesting that the kids, any of them, need more stuff, or that you should be spending more money on our family. You could spend the same amount of money and split it up between the four kids. Or, even just a card from their great-grandparents would be wonderful. > > Grandma [name], for example, does not send as much money, but she mails a card and a little something for them on their birthdays (which maybe you didn’t know are [older son’s name]: x.xx.2000 and [older daughter’s name]: x.xx.2003) and at Christmas. > > I am merely asking for my oldest two children to be recognized in a similar manner to the younger two. As [older son’s name] and [older daughter’s name] get older, they are likely to realize what’s happening. It is very important to me that they feel loved and welcome on my side of the family, too… : Perhaps this family defines love and acceptance through gifts but then my views about this are completely moot - my family defines things differently. For example, had the e-mail had said something like, “please say hello to the older kids and perhaps ask them about their school or hobbies so they feel more accepted” I wouldn’t have any sort of beef. That’s love and acceptance right there through _actions_. That’s what really matters in life. Not checks in the mail! Do you know who decides who and what I spend my money on? I do! I can’t imagine getting an e-mail from someone offering suggestions on how I need to spread my wealth, complete with examples of how other family members do it and mentioning that no one has noticed - yet. I cringed _hard_ at that e-mail. Very impolite and oversteps a lot of social boundaries. > [@even\_sven](#): > > But part one of the responsibilities of being a grown up is not letting your personal feelings hurt kids. There’s nothing wrong with children feeling frustrated and resentful. In fact, it’s how they learn to manage negative feelings that prepares them for adulthood. Butthurt parents deflecting and protecting their children from bad feelings just doesn’t help the kids in the long run. Here’s an example of how it works in my blended family. Very recently, the paternal great-aunt of my younger daughter sent her a pretty summer nightgown. My older daughter came to me and said, “gee, I wish I had a pretty summer nightgown.” I replied, “you’re right, you don’t. Next time we go shopping, we’ll look for one.” A few days later, she got her pretty summer nightgown. What did my daughter learn? She learned to ask for what she wants and to communicate her needs. If it’s a reasonable request, it will be likely be granted. She also learned patience because she didn’t get what she wanted right away. These kinds of solutions are what I’m talking about when I mean that gift giving dilemmas need to be solved within the immediate family. My older daughter may have felt bad about not having what her younger sister did, but we found a positive solution that didn’t involve telling others how to spend their money. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-extended-family-give-stepchildren-the-same-gifts-as-their-biological-kin/663182/86 "2013-07-18T17:10:08Z")
> [@SaxFace](#): > > Do you know who decides who and what I spend my money on? I do! I can’t imagine getting an e-mail from someone offering suggestions on how I need to spread my wealth, complete with examples of how other family members do it and mentioning that no one has noticed - yet. I cringed _hard_ at that e-mail. Very impolite and oversteps a lot of social boundaries. You can spend your money however you want, but you don’t get to set the rules on what comes in to my house. You can decide to buy a gallon of PCP or a crate of shotguns, but I don’t have to let you give them to my daughter. These gifts go against the family’s values-- values which they have thought long and hard about and worked pretty actively to instill. They are under no obligation to let someone else undermine that. Life is rough, but one of the jobs of parents is to guide kids through that with compassion and care. African-American kids face racism, but you don’t deal with that by taking them to a Klan rally. Girls face sexism, but you don’t deal with that by letting your sexist old uncle rant on about how women belong in the kitchen without comment. This grandma may have such a small heart that she apparently can’t make room for a couple more kids, but that doesn’t have to pass without comment. It’s completely okay to say “This isn’t what we do in our family.” ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-extended-family-give-stepchildren-the-same-gifts-as-their-biological-kin/663182/87 "2013-07-18T17:30:10Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > You can spend your money however you want, but you don’t get to set the rules on what comes in to my house. You can decide to buy a gallon of PCP or a crate of shotguns, but I don’t have to let you give them to my daughter. These gifts go against the family’s values-- values which they have thought long and hard about and worked pretty actively to instill. They are under no obligation to let someone else undermine that. > > Life is rough, but one of the jobs of parents is to guide kids through that with compassion and care. African-American kids face racism, but you don’t deal with that by taking them to a Klan rally. Girls face sexism, but you don’t deal with that by letting your sexist old uncle rant on about how women belong in the kitchen without comment. This grandma may have such a small heart that she apparently can’t make room for a couple more kids, but that doesn’t have to pass without comment. It’s completely okay to say “This isn’t what we do in our family.” A family is a lot more than two parents and some children however. The OP wants to deny the children contact with their extended family. ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-extended-family-give-stepchildren-the-same-gifts-as-their-biological-kin/663182/88 "2013-07-18T20:30:23Z")
I’m curious how you kids were treated by your wife’s Grandparents before you had biokids. What did your kids call them? What was the relationship like? ---
**Author:** ![SaxFace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@SaxFace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaxFace)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-extended-family-give-stepchildren-the-same-gifts-as-their-biological-kin/663182/89 "2013-07-18T21:41:51Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > You can spend your money however you want, but you don’t get to set the rules on what comes in to my house. You can decide to buy a gallon of PCP or a crate of shotguns, but I don’t have to let you give them to my daughter. These gifts go against the family’s values-- values which they have thought long and hard about and worked pretty actively to instill. They are under no obligation to let someone else undermine that. Uh, okay? But I’m not planning on buying you anything. Of course you decide what comes into your house, who has ever argued against that? I don’t see what PCP or shotguns have to do with birthday checks from great-grandma. Seriously, I’m very ??? with this paragraph. The e-mail the wife sent stated several options on how gifts could/should be given to the children - that’s a LOT different from you’re talking about. > [@even\_sven](#): > > Life is rough, but one of the jobs of parents is to guide kids through that with compassion and care. African-American kids face racism, but you don’t deal with that by taking them to a Klan rally. Girls face sexism, but you don’t deal with that by letting your sexist old uncle rant on about how women belong in the kitchen without comment. This grandma may have such a small heart that she apparently can’t make room for a couple more kids, but that doesn’t have to pass without comment. It’s completely okay to say “This isn’t what we do in our family.” Hyberbole, much? Yes, Klan rallies and sexist uncles are EXACTLY what I was talking about when discussing the day-to-day frustrations children need to learn to deal with. Also, do have information about other ways this small hearted great-grandma hasn’t made room for a couple more kids or are you just going by the gift thing? My beloved great-aunt used to give us wacky presents all the time (a girls cropped sweater for my 13-year-old-brother, a pair of earrings made out corn kernels for me and a nursing nightgown for my 16-year-old sister). We said our thank yous and then later laughed about it. Gifts have nothing to do with how much kids are loved or appreciated. My great-aunt loved the shit out of us. Old people are sacred and really, really wacky sometimes. Think about this: Instead of the e-mail that was sent, what if the wife had sent this one? How differently do you think things would have turned out? > [@](#): > > Dear Great-Granny, > > Thank you so much for the wonderful card and generous check for Young Son’s birthday. We just have to share what we did with your thoughtful present. We took a family trip with all four kids to the arcade and had an excellent time. Young Son was happy to stare at the blinking lights and eat ice cream. Older son taught younger daughter how to play skee-ball and they won 50 tickets! Older daughter won a glow in the dark stuffed panda from the claw machine and she is excited to show it to you when we come in August. > > We had a really memorable day thanks to you. We’ll tell you more when we see you soon. Hope all is well, etc. etc. ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-extended-family-give-stepchildren-the-same-gifts-as-their-biological-kin/663182/90 "2013-07-18T21:49:06Z")
I think your wife’s letter was a mistake. First, I agree with those who say that you shouldn’t tell someone else what they should do regards giving gifts. I admit there are exceptions (“Dad, really, please don’t give Joey a car for his 16ht birthday! It’s too much, he’s not mature enough, and …”) Second, if anyone should have sent the letter it should have been you. One thing that’s helped my marriage is that I try to be the one criticizing my parents and defending hers, and my wife does likewise. It takes an effort; you have to notice something’s off and ask your spouse rather than wait for things to boil over. It takes the other kind of effort too: if your spouse isn’t noticing the issue, raise it but in a way that’s the least critical. This isn’t “kid gloves,” it’s being respectful of your spouse and his or her parents. (I admit we both have it easy here: we have great parents, and in both cases our own parents tend to get on our own nerves before our spouse’s. So, this dynamic happened at first by accident, but the benefits were obvious so we maintain it.) However, your parents’ reply is way over the top and completely uncalled for. You need to call them down on it. It’ll cost you, no matter what you do. You let this go the wrong way to begin with, and now it’s a serious train wreck. I hope you can pull out a lot of survivors; good luck. My advice? First, find a way to blame yourself. Oddly enough, everyone seems to respond well to that (snicker). But you have to let your parents know that their reply was unacceptable: that your wife comes with you, and if she’s not with you, you’re not coming. And back off on the demand regarding how they give gifts. I agree with you: I’d get presents for everyone. But that’s my choice. Your parents are entitled to their choice. The most you should do is to make an observation about it, and let them connect the dots OR NOT, or discuss it with them in a non-challenging way, and respect their choice regardless. It is their choice to make. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-extended-family-give-stepchildren-the-same-gifts-as-their-biological-kin/663182/91 "2013-07-18T22:37:33Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Great point. The older kids already worried when we had our first bio kid together (after my wife had been a stepmom but not a bio mom for a couple years) that now that we were having kids together, the older ones would be kind of leftovers (and as you say, even a reminder of a past, failed relationship). We want to do everything possible to counteract that, and making nice with a lady who blatantly encourages that blow to self esteem is not the way to do it. (That we have so far concealed this from them is irrelevant.) What you’re missing is that the kids were worried about how _you and your wife_ would treat them - they no doubt have friends whose stepparent favors the biokids or whose bioparent favors the kids from the new relationship. It’s very unlikely that your almost-teenagers are or ever will be concerned about a person who will probably not be a significant presence in even the younger siblings lives. ``` And this is something that has been bugging me about the people who think great-grandma not only should treat the kids the same , but that there is nothing wrong with the OP and his wife insisting upon it. Suppose instead of **SlackerInc** we talk about one of a number of people I know who have been in a similar position- sharing custody of a child from a previous relationship and now with children from new relationship. Let's call this person Darryl and the new partner Carol. When Darryl's older kids are with them they visit Carol's family, including all sorts of great-grandparents, aunts, uncles and cousins. Darryl and Carol then split up. I have never , *not once* , known of a case where Darryl then makes any effort to maintain a relationship between his older kids and Carol's relatives no matter how much Carol's relatives welcomed Darryl's kids or how much he insisted that they do so. Apparently, it was only important for the older kids to have this relationship and be treated the same as the younger kids while Darryl and Carol were together. Once they split up, the very bio/step distinction that Darryl found intolerable in his wife's relatives becomes acceptable for him to make. Now I don't mean to suggest that **SlackerInc** would do this- I have no reason to have an opinion one way or the other about him. But I do wonder if those of you who believe the great grandmother is small-hearted , bitter , toxic and intends to hurt the older children's feelings also believe that Darryl is all those things if he doesn't arrange for his older children to visit and have a relationship with Carol's relatives. ``` ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-extended-family-give-stepchildren-the-same-gifts-as-their-biological-kin/663182/92 "2013-07-19T03:31:02Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > A family is a lot more than two parents and some children however. The OP wants to deny the children contact with their extended family. ORLY. Cite? > [@SmellMyWort](#): > > I’m curious how you kids were treated by your wife’s Grandparents before you had biokids. What did your kids call them? What was the relationship like? Can’t remember what they called her. She was pleasant to them. She gave them no gifts, but that didn’t bother me at all. > [@Learjeff](#): > > Second, if anyone should have sent the letter it should have been you. One thing that’s helped my marriage is that I try to be the one criticizing my parents and defending hers, and my wife does likewise. Huh? It was my wife’s grandmother. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-extended-family-give-stepchildren-the-same-gifts-as-their-biological-kin/663182/93 "2013-07-19T03:53:46Z")
> [@Tequila\_Party](#): > > LOL. Seriously dude, WTF? It’s just science dude. Get over it. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-extended-family-give-stepchildren-the-same-gifts-as-their-biological-kin/663182/94 "2013-07-19T04:02:29Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > –The older kids do get gifts from their maternal grandparents, and I did acknowledge this as one solid point on the other side. But these are grandparents the younger kids have never met and likely never will; nor are the older kids allowed to bring those gifts to our house. So you want the older kids to get double the presents, but just keep that secret from the younger ones? Sounds like they are daddy’s favorites. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-extended-family-give-stepchildren-the-same-gifts-as-their-biological-kin/663182/95 "2013-07-19T04:06:42Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > So you want the older kids to get double the presents, but just keep that secret from the younger ones? Sounds like they are daddy’s favorites. I have no favourites. Nice try though. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-extended-family-give-stepchildren-the-same-gifts-as-their-biological-kin/663182/96 "2013-07-19T05:42:12Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I have no favourites. Nice try though. Why then were you trying to rig things so the older kids got double gifts? FWIW my guess is that grandma saw through your wife’s clever ruse. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-extended-family-give-stepchildren-the-same-gifts-as-their-biological-kin/663182/97 "2013-07-19T05:52:59Z")
LOL, and here I actually thought whatsisname was right when he said trolling doesn’t really exist… ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-extended-family-give-stepchildren-the-same-gifts-as-their-biological-kin/663182/98 "2013-07-19T06:14:08Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > LOL, and here I actually thought whatsisname was right when he said trolling doesn’t really exist… I just think if you had respected sociobiology and your grandmothers apparent wishes things would have turned out just fine. You didn’t, so you got a worst case scenario. Lying probably didn’t help either. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-extended-family-give-stepchildren-the-same-gifts-as-their-biological-kin/663182/99 "2013-07-19T06:37:14Z")
My grandmother? Way to read for comprehension. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-extended-family-give-stepchildren-the-same-gifts-as-their-biological-kin/663182/100 "2013-07-19T06:56:14Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > My grandmother? Way to read for comprehension. Oh yeah, it was your grandmother in law you had your wife lie to. Sorry. No wonder she doesn’t want to buy your kids gifts. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-extended-family-give-stepchildren-the-same-gifts-as-their-biological-kin/663182.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-extended-family-give-stepchildren-the-same-gifts-as-their-biological-kin/663182.md?page=6)