# Should false rape accusations be prosecuted seriously as actual rape? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 6, 2016, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356 "2016-02-06T20:15:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/41 "2016-02-07T16:36:21Z")
Seems there’s a bit of a mixup here between _prosecuting **seriously** _ and _ **punishing** severely_. Not to mention investigating dilligently, judging fairly, and protecting the rights of\* all\* the parties. Of course\* all\* situations in which someone causes or may cause harm to someone else through malice or negligence should be looked into with all due dilligence and the prosecution if any must be undertaken seriously. As **even sven** points out there are already statutes outlawing defamation, false imprisonment, malicious prosecution, filing of false reports, blackmail, perjury, etc. One could make an argument for proportionality – but _ **not** _ equality – of the accusation vs. the punishment of the false report, as an aggravating circumstance, and I’d have to lean in **AK84** ’s direction in that it should be only for cases where the person conscientiously fabricated an allegation with a deliberate intent to target the accused or reckless disregard for the harm done, and it can be _actually proven so to criminal standard_: acquittal or reversal of conviction or even refutation of a piece of testimony by itself does not create the presumption of malicious falsehood, as \*\*Merneith \*\*points out. There are such things as mistakes. People may be sincerely convinced of what is not factual. But ISTM that standard would not be limited to rape cases alone, it could apply as well to any other type of framing… which brings us again to how we just do not punish all false accusation equally to the crime itself for anything else, do we? A victim would not feel safe reporting a crime under the threat of long years in prison if the case falls apart. The prosecution and trial of the accused must not be turned into that of the accuser/witness. That’s a trope for TV and movies and should stay there. ETA: An anonymity rule for the accused however would not survive the start of the court proceedings, due to the right to a public trial in open court. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/42 "2016-02-07T16:44:51Z")
No. We should not and do not, as a general rule, apply the same punishment for false accusation of a crime that we do to the actual crime itself. Rape doesn’t hold some special spot in the pantheon of crimes that it should be exempt from that rule. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/43 "2016-02-07T16:47:33Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Seems there’s a bit of a mixup here between _prosecuting **seriously** _ and _ **punishing** severely_. Not to mention investigating dilligently, judging fairly, and protecting the rights of\* all\* the parties. Of course\* all\* situations in which someone causes or may cause harm to someone else through malice or negligence should be looked into with all due dilligence and the prosecution if any must be undertaken seriously. . Good point. Again IMO you lie in court and or falsely accuse someone it should be some serious business. And as the OP is asking, the serious of the punishment for doing so should correlated to seriousness of the crime the other person is being charged with. Are there laws that do so? Or is it a basic “well, you lied in court, 5 years max” sorta thing? generally legally speaking? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/44 "2016-02-07T16:52:43Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > We should not and do not, as a general rule, apply the same punishment for false accusation of a crime that we do to the actual crime itself. FWIW, the ancient Israelites did, or at least that’s what the Bible dictates: [QUOTE=Deuteronomy 19:16-20] If a malicious witness takes the stand to accuse someone of a crime, the two people involved in the dispute must stand in the presence of the Lord before the priests and the judges who are in office at the time. The judges must make a thorough investigation, and if the witness proves to be a liar, giving false testimony against a fellow Israelite, then do to the false witness as that witness intended to do to the other party. You must purge the evil from among you. The rest of the people will hear of this and be afraid, and never again will such an evil thing be done among you. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/45 "2016-02-07T16:59:41Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > No. We should not and do not, as a general rule, apply the same punishment for false accusation of a crime that we do to the actual crime itself. Rape doesn’t hold some special spot in the pantheon of crimes that it should be exempt from that rule. spend 5 or 10 years in prison on a false rape conviction and i bet you’ll change your mind ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/46 "2016-02-07T17:03:22Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > No, false rape accusations should not be prosecuted as seriously as actual rape. > > Find me the actual rape victim who thinks they should be, and I might rethink that. ok you think you could find me someone who was falsely convicted and spent 5 or 10 years who doesnt have a legitimate case the person who sent them there doenst deserve the exact same punishment??? ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/47 "2016-02-07T17:07:37Z")
> [@thirdname](#): > > That’s a specious argument. An accusation of making false rape charges would have to be proved beyond a reasonable doubt, like any crime. The crime is making a provably false accusation, not an unproven one. There’s no reason why that should make anyone afraid to report an actual rape. > > (Please don’t make the argument that women might be falsely convicted of making false accusations. Feminists are constantly saying the court system is too biased in favor of defendants, when the defendant is a man such as in rape or domestic violence cases, and trying to make it easier to convict. If you want “equality,” that means men and women both have to face the same imperfect justice system. You don’t get to turn around and say that that the system is so liable to false convictions that we should declare a crime legal because a woman might be the defendant.) > > Imagine that a man was pissed off at a woman and attempted to lock her in a cage in his basement for 5 years as revenge. Is that okay? Should there be consequences for that? That’s effectively what a woman’s trying to do to a man that she falsely accuses a man of rape. (Not to mention ruining the rest of his life after he gets out.) > > Then imagine there’s a movement trying to make/keep it 100% legal for a man to lock a woman in a cage for 5 years, and if he’s caught she will be released but he will face no consequences. That’s effectively what feminists are doing when they argue there should be no punishment whatsoever for false accusations. > > Any attempt to frame someone for a serious felony is at least as severe a crime as kidnapping and should be punished accordingly. Wow, thanks, been watching this topic for over 2 years, every time it comes up. Almost no one feels about it the way you do and the way I do. Seems to be a lot of double standards and bias from the other side on this one. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/48 "2016-02-07T17:09:16Z")
> [@thirdname](#): > > That’s a specious argument. An accusation of making false rape charges would have to be proved beyond a reasonable doubt, like any crime. The crime is making a provably false accusation, not an unproven one. There’s no reason why that should make anyone afraid to report an actual rape. This. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/49 "2016-02-07T17:13:36Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > you think you could find me someone who was falsely convicted and spent 5 or 10 years who doesnt have a legitimate case the person who sent them there doenst deserve the exact same punishment??? Generally, I don’t subscribe to a justice system that actually embraces “an eye for an eye.” Punishments should be carefully considered, with all the relevant facts at hand - not automatically meted out according to what happened to the other guy. Civil liability plays a role here as well. If someone falsely accuses someone else of a crime, and a person spends prison time as a result, the false accuser ought to be subject to some length of imprisonment as well as a hefty settlement. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/50 "2016-02-07T17:19:21Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Generally, I don’t subscribe to a justice system that actually embraces “an eye for an eye.” Punishments should be carefully considered, with all the relevant facts at hand - not automatically meted out according to what happened to the other guy. > > Civil liability plays a role here as well. If someone falsely accuses someone else of a crime, and a person spends prison time as a result, the false accuser ought to be subject to some length of imprisonment as well as a hefty settlement. I do not see it that way. You frame me and send me to prison for 10 years… and I’m innocent. You need to go to prison for 20 years. I doubt you will be able to say anything to convince me otherwise. Call me simplistic if you like, that would be ok, to me it is a very simple matter. You sent me to jail, I was innocent, you lied, you deserve what I got and then twice for doing it. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/51 "2016-02-07T17:40:00Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > ok > > you think you could find me someone who was falsely convicted and spent 5 or 10 years who doesnt have a legitimate case the person who sent them there doenst deserve the exact same punishment??? You do mine first, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/52 "2016-02-07T17:41:56Z")
Being raped ruins your life as much as you let it. Going to jail for a long period of time for rape seriously ruins your life whether you let it or not. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/53 "2016-02-07T17:45:03Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Being raped ruins your life as much as you let it. > > Going to jail for a long period of time for rape seriously ruins your life whether you let it or not. :dubious: Sure it depends ultimately on the facts of the each case, but that is not true at all. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/54 "2016-02-07T17:45:22Z")
Oh, I don’t intend to convince you to change your mind. I simply think judgment should be part of determining punishment. Policies like three strikes, mandatory minimums, zero tolerance, and what you’re arguing here in terms of identical or harsher prison terms are all examples, in my mind, of silliness masquerading as “tough on crime.” If someone has a third strike, the appropriate punishment may be a slap on the wrist or life in prison as circumstances dictate. If someone sends you to prison because of false testimony, the proper punishment could be anything from a stretch in a mental asylum to prison time - but how long you spent in prison isn’t the determining factor. The state also has responsibility for prosecuting you for a crime you didn’t commit - you can’t take it all out on your accuser. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/55 "2016-02-07T17:49:00Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Being raped ruins your life as much as you let it. Are you seriously suggesting that rape victims who have long-term trauma are “letting” themselves experience this long-term trauma? ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/56 "2016-02-07T17:52:05Z")
> [@GlowingDarkness](#): > > I know that people say rape crimes go unreported and few get prosecuted but rape is still viewed by society as only second to murder in nearly all places. Funny how few threads we get about the scourge of false murder accusations and how frightened men are of being accused of murders they did not commit. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/57 "2016-02-07T17:53:45Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Are you seriously suggesting that rape victims who have long-term trauma are “letting” themselves experience this long-term trauma? Well yes and no. The guy in prison sure as heck ain’t going to “will” himself outa there. And he ain’t gonna “will” his record away. And he isn’t gonna “will” any future folks/employers in his life to ignore it. And on an on. Maybe you can get over a tramatic experience. Maybe you can’t. Or maybe its somewhere in between. But convicted of a crime you didn’t commit? At the very least you are 100 percent screwed for the time you spend in jail. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/58 "2016-02-07T17:54:48Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > Funny how few threads we get about the scourge of false murder accusations and how frightened men are of being accused of murders they did not commit. Most dead people don’t falsely accuse other people 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/59 "2016-02-07T17:55:30Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > You do mine first, thanks. > [@](#): > > The Code of Hammurabi is a little outdated to be basing our laws on. But the concept of Justice is not. You should get at least as much punishment as I do. I was innocent. You lied. You purposefully framed me. You sent me to to a living hell for 5 or 10 years. You deserve - at least - what I got. Really, you deserve twice, but, that last part could be debated. Disparaging remarks about the code of Hammurabi do not really contribute to the discussion, BTW. > [@](#): > > Find me the actual rape victim who thinks they should be, and I might rethink that. This is not a competition. I mentioned find me a victim because you mentioned it. I’m not trying to compete with your claim, I’m not trying to invalidate it. Both situation are horrible. It’s, not, a competition. > [@](#): > > Or when the incidence of false accusations is even 10% as high as the actual incidence of rape\*, I might rethink. > > - not the incidence of rape accusations, which is the usual measure. Let’s assume, let’s say, 1 in 1000 people convicted of rape are actually maliciously framed for it. If you were that 1 in 1000 person, it would be a horrible horrible thing to have happen, right? Prison for 5 to 10 years and the rest of your life falsely labeled as a rapist? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/60 "2016-02-07T17:55:44Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > Funny how few threads we get about the scourge of false murder accusations and how frightened men are of being accused of murders they did not commit. Maybe because _almost every man_ has had sex with someone, but very few have put a bullet in someone. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356.md?page=4)