# Should false rape accusations be prosecuted seriously as actual rape? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 6, 2016, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356 "2016-02-06T20:15:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/61 "2016-02-07T17:59:03Z")
“An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind” ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/62 "2016-02-07T18:02:35Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Oh, I don’t intend to convince you to change your mind. I simply think judgment should be part of determining punishment. Policies like three strikes, mandatory minimums, zero tolerance, and what you’re arguing here in terms of identical or harsher prison terms are all examples, in my mind, of silliness masquerading as “tough on crime.” > > If someone has a third strike, the appropriate punishment may be a slap on the wrist or life in prison as circumstances dictate. If someone sends you to prison because of false testimony, the proper punishment could be anything from a stretch in a mental asylum to prison time - but how long you spent in prison isn’t the determining factor. The state also has responsibility for prosecuting you for a crime you didn’t commit - you can’t take it all out on your accuser. Ok, well, you are thinking logically and I am thinking emotionally. I know that “thinking emotionally” is considered bad, but, in this situation, I am thinking of how I would feel if it happened to me. I think, honestly, that is always the most honest response. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/63 "2016-02-07T18:06:11Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > But the concept of Justice is not. You should get at least as much punishment as I do. I was innocent. You lied. You purposefully framed me. You sent me to to a living hell for 5 or 10 years. You deserve - at least - what I got. Come to think of it: imagine I frame you for attempted murder – in a jurisdiction where said attempted murder would be a capital offense, such that you’d face the death penalty. I’d thereby be guilty of attempted murder, right? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/64 "2016-02-07T18:10:19Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > “An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind” How so? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/65 "2016-02-07T18:25:40Z")
Haven’t places with an eye-for-an-eye system been chock full of sighted folks? ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/66 "2016-02-07T18:27:07Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Haven’t places with an eye-for-an-eye system been chock full of sighted folks? I’m no seeing it. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/67 "2016-02-07T18:31:24Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Come to think of it: imagine I frame you for attempted murder – in a jurisdiction where said attempted murder would be a capital offense, such that you’d face the death penalty. I’d thereby be guilty of attempted murder, right? Yes ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/68 "2016-02-07T18:31:43Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > I know that “thinking emotionally” is considered bad, but, in this situation, I am thinking of how I would feel if it happened to me. I think, honestly, that is always the most honest response. I don’t think it is “bad” thing. At least in this case. Sometimes thinking “emotionally” lines up with “fair”. From a moral, ethical, and legal point of view IMO getting some serious jail time for knowningly false testimony that could have well resulted in serious jail time for somebody else is just fricking obvious (where is the hands up smiley?). ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/69 "2016-02-07T18:32:11Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Maybe because _almost every man_ has had sex with someone, but very few have put a bullet in someone. Putting a bullet in someone is nearly always a crime. Has almost every man engaged in sex acts that are nearly always criminal? If so, it’s not false accusations of rape they should be worried about, it’s being held accountable for the crimes they’ve actually committed. Is that what all these “false accusation” threads are really about, actual rapists or would-be rapists who think they should be able to get away with it? Because that would explain a lot. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/70 "2016-02-07T18:33:36Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > Is that what all these “false accusation” threads are really about, actual rapists or would-be rapists who think they should be able to get away with it? Because that would explain a lot. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/71 "2016-02-07T19:00:32Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > :dubious: Perhaps you should be raising your eyebrow at the poster who just compared having sex with someone to shooting them. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/72 "2016-02-07T19:03:21Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > Perhaps you should be raising your eyebrow at the poster who just compared having sex with someone to shooting them. You just accused a fair number of people here to be rapist or wanna be rapist or rapist apologists. And given the topic of the thread the irony is particularly rich. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/73 "2016-02-07T20:14:39Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Ok, well, you are thinking logically and I am thinking emotionally. > > I know that “thinking emotionally” is considered bad, but, in this situation, I am thinking of how I would feel if it happened to me. I think, honestly, that is always the most honest response. But your, or my, honest anger is not a sound basis on which to judge _whether society should make something be the Law_. I get no useful information out of “how would you feel if it happened to you/your family” because I know I’d want in my gut to become the smiting hand of God’s wrath, but I \*know \*I’m not. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/74 "2016-02-07T20:22:08Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > But your, or my, honest anger is not a sound basis on which to judge _whether society should make something be the Law_. I get no useful information out “how would you feel if it happened to you/your family” because I know I’d want in my gut to become the smiting hand of God’s wrath, but I \*know \*I’m not. Yeah, you are right, I’m actually agreeing with you BTW, you are right. But, somehow, I feel like if someone murdered my father I’d want to murder them right back, twice as brutally. I know it would be crazy to live in a world like that. But I think this detached objective view of horrible crimes like rape and murder is a little crazy too. Not as bad as anarchy but still a bit odd. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/75 "2016-02-07T20:40:44Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > Putting a bullet in someone is nearly always a crime. Has almost every man engaged in sex acts that are nearly always criminal? If so, it’s not false accusations of rape they should be worried about, it’s being held accountable for the crimes they’ve actually committed. > > Is that what all these “false accusation” threads are really about, actual rapists or would-be rapists who think they should be able to get away with it? Because that would explain a lot. I fail to see what point you’re trying to make. Especially the sentence emphasized. Are you implying that most men have or have not engaged in criminal sex acts? > [@Lamia](#): > > Perhaps you should be raising your eyebrow at the poster who just compared having sex with someone to shooting them. No one did that, so no eyebrows need raising. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/76 "2016-02-07T20:58:07Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Disparaging remarks about the code of Hammurabi do not really contribute to the discussion, BTW. I merntioned the Code because it has precisely the OP’s rule for false accusations. It also has the _Lex Talionis_, and the two are about equivalent in their outdatedness, IMO. > [@](#): > > I mentioned find me a victim because you mentioned it. I didn’t “mention” it, I offered it as a challenge. One I see you have no inclination to answer. > [@](#): > > I’m not trying to compete with your claim, I’m not trying to invalidate it. You’re trying to arrange matters such that rape victims will be reluctant to come forward for actual rapes. Damn straight, that invalidates the experience of rape victims. My challenge is to reinforce the counterclaim. If you could invalidate it, you would. > [@](#): > > Let’s assume, let’s say, 1 in 1000 people convicted of rape are actually maliciously framed for it. If you were that 1 in 1000 person, it would be a horrible horrible thing to have happen, right? Prison for 5 to 10 years and the rest of your life falsely labeled as a rapist? I don’t give a shit, quite frankly, given that that’s 1 in 1000 of an already abismally low rape conviction rate vs the rate of actual rape. if the rapist numbers are as high as they are supposed to be (anywhere from 4%-25% depending on where and when), that’s what I concern myself with, not the low percentage of a low percentage on the other side. That’s a feather vs a bowling ball, on the scales of “who should I concern myself with as the _real_ victims in all this” ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/77 "2016-02-07T21:50:44Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I fail to see what point you’re trying to make. My original point, which I don’t think anyone cared about, was that I do not believe that rape is in fact considered by society to be a crime second only to murder in its seriousness. Since then I’ve been talking about your analogy. > [@](#): > > Especially the sentence emphasized. Are you implying that most men have or have not engaged in criminal sex acts? I’m trying to figure out what _you_ were implying. You suggested that men who’ve had sex are afraid of being accused of rape for the same reasons that a man who shot someone might fear being accused of murder. But shooting someone is usually a crime even when it’s not murder, which is why I asked if you really thought that men who’ve had sex are usually guilty of a crime even if it’s not rape. Personally, I do not believe that most men who’ve had sex are guilty of any form of sexual assault. However, most men who’ve had sex don’t strike me as being particularly concerned about being falsely accused of rape either. So if your analogy was really just a poorly phrased attempt to say that all men fear that having consensual sex will lead to false rape accusations then I don’t believe that’s true either. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/78 "2016-02-07T22:13:04Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I merntioned the Code because it has precisely the OP’s rule for false accusations. It also has the _Lex Talionis_, and the two are about equivalent in their outdatedness, IMO.I didn’t “mention” it, I offered it as a challenge. One I see you have no inclination to answer.You’re trying to arrange matters such that rape victims will be reluctant to come forward for actual rapes. Damn straight, that invalidates the experience of rape victims. My challenge is to reinforce the counterclaim. If you could invalidate it, you would.I don’t give a shit, quite frankly, given that that’s 1 in 1000 of an already abismally low rape conviction rate vs the rate of actual rape. if the rapist numbers are as high as they are supposed to be (anywhere from 4%-25% depending on where and when), that’s what I concern myself with, not the low percentage of a low percentage on the other side. That’s a feather vs a bowling ball, on the scales of “who should I concern myself with as the _real_ victims in all this” Sounds to me that your basic arguement is that way more women are raped than men are falsely accused of rape and therefore the later are not the “real” victims yet the former are. Ahh…the ole victims as a class schtick… ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/79 "2016-02-07T22:20:39Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > Putting a bullet in someone is nearly always a crime. Has almost every man engaged in sex acts that are nearly always criminal? If so, it’s not false accusations of rape they should be worried about, it’s being held accountable for the crimes they’ve actually committed. > > Is that what all these “false accusation” threads are really about, actual rapists or would-be rapists who think they should be able to get away with it? Because that would explain a lot. I think I know exactly what you mean. Every “general discussion” MB I’ve been on has had threads like this pop up, always started by men, always defended by men, always full of posts by men who have tons of sympathy for everyone who has ever been falsely accused (rare though it may be), and always, there seems to be a vibe, or something, of worry, that all these men actually spend time worrying that they will be falsely accused. Now, women have just as much sex as men, but you never hear women worry about being falsely accused of rape, and they spend way, way more time with children than men do, and yet women don’t stay up nights worrying about being falsely accused of misconduct with children (and they have been, especially during the “Satanic Panic” days-- probably more women were falsely accused than men). FWIW, the few cases of false convictions I can think of off the top of my head have been due to police misconduct, not women making false accusations: I’m thinking, for example, of the Central Park jogger. She had no memory of the crime, and the arrests and interrogations were done while she was still unconscious. The boys, who were teens, were coerced into false confessions, which is a problem across all violent crimes, not just rape. It has happened in cases of murder, and non-sexual assault. If men don’t want to be falsely convicted of rape, they should probably be a lot more worried about police misconduct than malicious women. I can’t help thinking that men are really worried in the backs of their heads somewhere that they’ve “wronged” or pissed off a woman at some point, who will lash out this way, in spite of the fact that ACTUAL victims don’t like going to the police. Why would someone want to invent a victim story? ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/80 "2016-02-07T22:24:36Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > Now, women have just as much sex as men, but you never hear women worry about being falsely accused of rape, and they spend way, way more time with children than men do, and yet women don’t stay up nights worrying about being falsely accused of misconduct with children (and they have been, especially during the “Satanic Panic” days-- . This is so socially and factually tone deaf I can’t even begin to respond. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356.md?page=5)