# Should false rape accusations be prosecuted seriously as actual rape? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 6, 2016, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356 "2016-02-06T20:15:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/81 "2016-02-07T22:41:04Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > Now, women have just as much sex as men, but you never hear women worry about being falsely accused of rape, and they spend way, way more time with children than men do, and yet women don’t stay up nights worrying about being falsely accused of misconduct with children (and they have been, especially during the “Satanic Panic” days-- probably more women were falsely accused than men). Not rape, but over here, female teachers are just as at risk of complaints from pupils as male teachers. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/82 "2016-02-07T22:55:26Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Sounds to me that your basic arguement is that way more women are raped than men are falsely accused of rape and therefore the later are not the “real” victims yet the former are. > > Ahh…the ole victims as a class schtick… Why in the world would it not be relevant? The severity of the crime combined with its instance is how you determine the required amount of deterrence. Resources are finite, and it’s a waste to spend more on a crime that, as a rule, is less severe and less common. False rape accusations are definitely less common than true ones, by a rather large margin. Convictions for false rape charges compared to convictions for rape is even lower. The crime itself is, as a general rule, less severe. Sure, you can find ones at the extremes, where someone was falsely imprisoned versus someone who actually didn’t get PTSD from being raped. But, generally speaking, a false accusation ruins your reputation at most, while rape ruins your entire life. If too many people treat you like you are a rapist, you can move. You can’t move away from internal struggles of PTSD. If I had a choice to never have any anxiety troubles ever again at the expense of everyone thinking I raped someone, I’d take that in a heartbeat. There’s no contest. Psychological trauma is far, far worse than social trauma. There is no reason to make false rape accusations have equivalent punishment to rape unless you think that false rape accusations are a much, much bigger problem than rape. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/83 "2016-02-07T23:02:14Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Why in the world would it not be relevant? The severity of the crime combined with its instance is how you determine the required amount of deterrence. Resources are finite, and it’s a waste to spend more on a crime that, as a rule, is less severe and less common. . So, if I sold nuclear secrets to North Korea I should just get a slap on the wrist? I mean, come on, how often does THAT happen? And for that matter can they actually use that info? Good God man. You think a false accusation of rape ain’t no big deal? You are slipping these days. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/84 "2016-02-07T23:03:25Z")
And, BTW, false imprisonment for rape he extremely rare. Think about it. Even if, as rarely happens, the false accusation isn’t found during the investigation, you would still need an extreme frame job to provide the proof necessary. Generally what happens is just some reputation damage. And it’s limited in scope because there are a ton of people who will accept the retraction–even if there are some who won’t. You bring up the Duke Lacrosse case. How many people think that the guys really raped? If anything, people feel sorry for the actual victims. The proper system for making someone whole after reputation damage is the civil system. While our punishment for rape is generally too lenient. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/85 "2016-02-07T23:05:04Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > You’re trying to arrange matters such that rape victims will be reluctant to come forward for actual rapes. No, I’m not. > [@](#): > > I don’t give a shit, quite frankly, given that that’s 1 in 1000 of an already abismally low rape conviction rate vs the rate of actual rape. if the rapist numbers are as high as they are supposed to be (anywhere from 4%-25% depending on where and when), that’s what I concern myself with, not the low percentage of a low percentage on the other side. That’s a feather vs a bowling ball, on the scales of “who should I concern myself with as the _real_ victims in all this” Wait… So, if a person were falsely convicted of rape, you, wouldn’t give a shit??? Of course you would give a shit. But you are making this into a competition of two topics. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/86 "2016-02-07T23:10:28Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Not rape, but over here, female teachers are just as at risk of complaints from pupils as male teachers. And yet, women don’t sit around building hypotheticals regarding how to punish the accusers. > [@Robert163](#): > > So, if a person were falsely convicted of rape, you, wouldn’t give a shit??? Of course you would give a shit. But you are making this into a competition of two topics. No, the OP did that. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/87 "2016-02-07T23:11:51Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > The crime itself is, as a general rule, less severe. Sure, you can find ones at the extremes, where someone was falsely imprisoned versus someone who actually didn’t get PTSD from being raped. But, generally speaking, a false accusation ruins your reputation at most, while rape ruins your entire life. If too many people treat you like you are a rapist, you can move. You can’t move away from internal struggles of PTSD. Quite the job you love, loose all your friends, loose your coworkers, your house, the land and scenery and familiar surroundings you love. And, it starts all over when you “move” because it is 2016 and stuff doesnt stay hidden any more. You live in constant fear that no one is going to google your name… ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/88 "2016-02-07T23:28:46Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > And yet, women don’t sit around building hypotheticals regarding how to punish the accusers. Neither do the male teachers. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/89 "2016-02-07T23:29:46Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > And, BTW, false imprisonment for rape he extremely rare. Think about it. Even if, as rarely happens, the false accusation isn’t found during the investigation, you would still need an extreme frame job to provide the proof necessary. > > . :dubious::dubious::dubious::dubious: ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/90 "2016-02-07T23:30:14Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > So, if I sold nuclear secrets to North Korea I should just get a slap on the wrist? > > I mean, come on, how often does THAT happen? And for that matter can they actually use that info? > > Good God man. You think a false accusation of rape ain’t no big deal? > > You are slipping these days. No. Did you pay any attention to what I said? It’s how often it happens _times the severity_. The severity of selling secrets and their potential for harm is much higher, and thus needs greater deterrence. (Though I could argue that the amount of deterrence is too high, since it kept us in the dark about the NSA thing for way too long.) How would you like it if I start treating you like you think rape is no big deal? I said that false accusations are a far, far less severe problem than actual rape. It’s a less severe problem then the 2/3s of rapes that aren’t actually reported. Trying to equate the two is like equating perjury with assault. It doesn’t happen as often, and the results are nowhere near as devastating. Just because I say that false accusations are not as bad doesn’t mean I think they are nothing. And that’s without getting into the obvious truth that greater punishment will discourage legitimate accusations, which has been eloquently described by others in this thread. Merely the thread of prosecution is a deterrent, even if they would be found not guilty. ---
**Author:** ![Meed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Meed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meed)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/91 "2016-02-07T23:31:16Z")
> [@GlowingDarkness](#): > > I know that people say rape crimes go unreported and few get prosecuted but rape is still viewed by society as only second to murder in nearly all places. > > So when someone makes an allegation that is appears to have no basis in reality, should they get punished for perverting the court of justice, preventing real rape victims from being taken seriously and more importantly ruining the lives of those accused? > > A rape accusation which is false can have devastating consequences on the accused’s life. They often are alienated from family and lose friends, They can be threatened by others in their community, And if convicted get on the sex offenders list. > > Here are some stories of deaths relating to false accusations: > > [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9788265/Teenager-falsely-accused-of-rape-beaten-to-death-by-gang.html](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9788265/Teenager-falsely-accused-of-rape-beaten-to-death-by-gang.html) > > [http://www.bizpacreview.com/2015/01/09/false-rape-accusations-cause-man-to-be-beaten-to-death-171420](http://www.bizpacreview.com/2015/01/09/false-rape-accusations-cause-man-to-be-beaten-to-death-171420) > > And I’m sure you can find plenty of stories on the web > > The other question is, how common are these? Are you more likely to be hit by an asteroid that be falsely accused of rape? I’m sure for men the odds are much higher than for women. > > What do you think? Why did you pick those examples? Neither involves someone making a false allegation of rape in court. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/92 "2016-02-07T23:44:23Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > Personally, though, I tend to think if women feel raped, they were raped. It’s a very good thing that our criminal justice system doesn’t work that way. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/93 "2016-02-07T23:48:00Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > No. Did you pay any attention to what I said? > > . No. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/94 "2016-02-07T23:52:02Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > It’s a very good thing that our criminal justice system doesn’t work that way. _Sigh_ If I worked for the criminal justice system, it wouldn’t work that way either. Those are just my personal feelings. Prosecutions still need evidence. Suppose I were a therapist, though, and before I would treat a client for PTSD following rape, I required her to demonstrate with forensic evidence that she’d been raped? Good thing therapists don’t work that way. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2016, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/95 "2016-02-08T00:03:04Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > :dubious::dubious::dubious::dubious: You think it’s common for people on a “guilty beyond a reasonable doubt” system to be locked up for pretty much the hardest to prove crime there is? A crime that is regularly unprosecutable even when it did happen? ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2016, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/96 "2016-02-08T00:08:34Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > You think it’s common for people on a “guilty beyond a reasonable doubt” system to be locked up for pretty much the hardest to prove crime there is? A crime that is regularly unprosecutable even when it did happen? Did I say common? I don’t care if it is rare as heck. If and when it happens its a travesty. And to argue that it’s not a big deal to lie about such things and there should not be some serious legal penalties…well I can’t believe some of you people here to be honest. Well, yeah I suppose I can. The social justice warriors don’t care if a few innocents get trampled in the stampede to “justice”. Some percentage of the population are basically “sociopaths”. My WAG is that women that will lie about a rape is probably in the same ballpark as men that will rape to get sex. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2016, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/97 "2016-02-08T00:47:53Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > I don’t care if it is rare as heck. If and when it happens its a travesty. And to argue that it’s not a big deal to lie about such things and there should not be some serious legal penalties…well I can’t believe some of you people here to be honest. Since not one person in this thread has said any such thing, what you believe or don’t believe about any subject doesn’t really hold much credibility. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2016, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/98 "2016-02-08T00:51:58Z")
Nobody is arguing that it’s not a big deal. But we have: 1. Multiple levels of reinsurances built in to our justice system to ensure that people aren’t being locked away for years based on a random accusation. 2. Existing legal remedies for people who are framed for crimes. Add this to: A: The reality that real, actual rape is very hard to convict, given it rarely involves witnesses and often leaves unclear evidence. B: The range of rape apologists out there arguing that anything short of “stranger with a knife jumps out of the bushes” is not rape/probably a lie/not a big deal/probably her fault (and, newly, probably her fault for making a big deal out of it). C: A long history of people being blocked from seeking justice after rape, including through legal punishments for making accusations. And it makes you wonder, out of all the topics out there, why this particular topic holds such fascination with people. Of the hundreds of millions of sexually active Americans out there, someone actually serving time for a false rape accusation is going to be a statistical blip that’s most likely caused by the justice system failing to uphold the “guilty beyond a reasonable doubt” rule-- an unfortunate occurrence that happens now and then in all types of crimes. And yet certain people, including a suspicious number of people in category B, want to bring it up in basically every conversation about rape. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2016, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/99 "2016-02-08T01:11:22Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > 1. Multiple levels of reinsurances built in to our justice system to ensure that people aren’t being locked away for years based on a random accusation. > 2. Existing legal remedies for people who are framed for crimes. And what remedy is there for people who can’t prove the were falsely convicted. This is kind of the whole point of the issue. > [@](#): > > Add this to: > > A: The reality that real, actual rape is very hard to convict, given it rarely involves witnesses and often leaves unclear evidence. This sounds like an accurate statement > [@](#): > > B: The range of rape apologists out there arguing that anything short of “stranger with a knife jumps out of the bushes” is not rape/probably a lie/not a big deal/probably her fault (and, newly, probably her fault for making a big deal out of it). Not everyone who is concerned about false convictions is a rape apologist. Granted there are many rape apologists who are, I’ll give you that. > [@](#): > > C: A long history of people being blocked from seeking justice after rape, including through legal punishments for making accusations. Another accurate statement > [@](#): > > Of the hundreds of millions of sexually active Americans out there, someone actually serving time for a false rape accusation is going to be a statistical blip that’s most likely caused by the justice system failing to uphold the “guilty beyond a reasonable doubt” rule-- an unfortunate occurrence that happens now and then in all types of crimes. Is it a blip? A- I have no idea how many date rape “accusations” are false. I really don’t. But I’m not going to dismiss the idea that it happens as an “unfortunate occurrence that happens now and then”. B- I have no idea how often it happens as a straight out lie, a complete fabrication, but I’m not going to dismiss the idea that it happens as an “unfortunate occurrence that happens now and then”. In both cases, A and B, a mentally ill person or a person of low moral character could tell a story that is not entirely accurate. I - am not - saying women who are mentally ill or strippers or prostitutes or women who have criminal records should not be taken seriously when the make a report of being raped. That is not what I am saying. The question was asked above, what type of woman would set them self up for that type of negative attention, well: a mentally ill person or a person of low moral character. That is why I am not going to dismiss the idea that it happens as an unfortunate occurrence that happens now and then. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2016, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356/100 "2016-02-08T01:14:00Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > **Nobody is arguing that it’s not a big deal.** But we have: > > 1. Multiple levels of reinsurances built in to our justice system to ensure that people aren’t being locked away for years based on a random accusation. > > 2. Existing legal remedies for people who are framed for crimes. > > Add this to: > > A: The reality that real, actual rape is very hard to convict, given it rarely involves witnesses and often leaves unclear evidence. > > B: The range of rape apologists out there arguing that anything short of “stranger with a knife jumps out of the bushes” is not rape/probably a lie/not a big deal/probably her fault (and, newly, probably her fault for making a big deal out of it). > > C: A long history of people being blocked from seeking justice after rape, including through legal punishments for making accusations. > > And it makes you wonder, out of all the topics out there, why this particular topic holds such fascination with people. > > Of the hundreds of millions of sexually active Americans out there, someone actually serving time for a false rape accusation is going to be a statistical blip that’s most likely caused by the justice system failing to uphold the “guilty beyond a reasonable doubt” rule-- **an unfortunate occurrence that happens now and then in all types of crimes**. > > And yet certain people, including a suspicious number of people in category B, want to bring it up in basically every conversation about rape. Sorry, but, those statements kind of sound like a claim that it’s not a big deal. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-false-rape-accusations-be-prosecuted-seriously-as-actual-rape/745356.md?page=6)