# Should fictional entertainment never encourage "supernatural" thinking? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 2, 2011, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-fictional-entertainment-never-encourage-supernatural-thinking/569872 "2011-02-02T07:42:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-fictional-entertainment-never-encourage-supernatural-thinking/569872/1 "2011-02-02T07:42:29Z")
One criticism I’ve occasionally seen of _The X-Files_ is that it encouraged “woo” thinking: belief in ghosts, alien visitations, conspiracies everywhere, etc. The post that made me think of it cited the very existence of _Medium_ and _Ghost Whisperer_ as a bad thing (though since the former is outright based on a real person, that may be in a separate category altogether). So should entertainment that’s produced as outright fiction be under any sort of pressure to keep supernatural, spiritual, and similarly “non-rational” thinking out, or to deliberately “debunk” it? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-fictional-entertainment-never-encourage-supernatural-thinking/569872/2 "2011-02-02T07:52:45Z")
No. The vast majority of people who watched the X-Files new it was fictional. The fact that there’s some minority of sub-morons who thought it was a documentary should not be used as an excuse to deny everyone else a little light entertainment. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-fictional-entertainment-never-encourage-supernatural-thinking/569872/3 "2011-02-02T08:04:28Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > So should entertainment that’s produced as outright fiction be under any sort of pressure to keep supernatural, spiritual, and similarly “non-rational” thinking out, or to deliberately “debunk” it? No. It’s fiction. All fiction distorts reality to some degree. In fact, fiction that is outstandingly non realistic in some way is probably less corrupting in it’s obvious fantasy, than fiction that seems very real but has subtle falsities. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-fictional-entertainment-never-encourage-supernatural-thinking/569872/4 "2011-02-02T08:23:28Z")
It’s \*because \*I’m such a big fan of science fiction and fantasy that I’ve been immunized to “woo” thinking. I know second-rate sci-fi when I see it. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-fictional-entertainment-never-encourage-supernatural-thinking/569872/5 "2011-02-02T09:36:52Z")
I think that entertainment shouldn’t encourage people to believe that such things are _real_ the way pseudo/bad documentaries about ghosts and such do. But _X-Files_ was clearly meant as fiction. And to be fair, Fox’s willingness to believe most anything led him to be wrong quite often, and outright manipulated a few times that I recall. Really, if anything was “scientifically offensive” about _X-Files_, I’d say it was the portrayal of scientific types like Scully as designated skeptics who wouldn’t believe in the latest weirdness even when it was in their face going “_Booga-Booga!_” It’s irrational to believe in things like vampires, psychic powers, demons and alien abductions in the real world because of the lack of evidence for such things. Believing in them in some imaginary alternate world where there IS evidence isn’t unscientific at all. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-fictional-entertainment-never-encourage-supernatural-thinking/569872/6 "2011-02-02T09:55:54Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > No. It’s fiction. All fiction distorts reality to some degree. In fact, fiction that is outstandingly non realistic in some way is probably less corrupting in it’s obvious fantasy, than fiction that seems very real but has subtle falsities. Yeah, this. It’s hard to imagine that “The X Files” or “Medium” are more damaging than “JFK” or “Psychic Detectives” or similar crap that pretends to be based in the real world while playing fast and loose with facts. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-fictional-entertainment-never-encourage-supernatural-thinking/569872/7 "2011-02-02T10:11:29Z")
No… It’s a terrible idea. Where would you even stop? For example, [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beatrix_Potter) writer and [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A._A._Milne) one both portray a quite unrealistic view of nature - what happens if people start believing that animals can talk, and that they live in quaint little houses, socialising across species and wearing waistcoats? It’s _fiction_. It’s meant to be different from reality. That’s what makes it work. That is its raison d’être. ---
**Author:** ![Double\_Foolscap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85e7bf/32.png) [@Double\_Foolscap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Double_Foolscap)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-fictional-entertainment-never-encourage-supernatural-thinking/569872/8 "2011-02-02T10:30:08Z")
What about detective shows that feature a single episode where the psychic loon turns out to be legit? That’s kind of breaking the internal logic of the show, as the audience then have to worry about woo being used as a solution to crimes when previously they could trust that it would be something grounded in reality. There’s also the question of why they don’t have a psychic on staff full-time. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-fictional-entertainment-never-encourage-supernatural-thinking/569872/9 "2011-02-02T10:34:49Z")
> [@Double\_Foolscap](#): > > What about detective shows that feature a single episode where the psychic loon turns out to be legit? > > That’s kind of breaking the internal logic of the show, as the audience then have to worry about woo being used as a solution to crimes when previously they could trust that it would be something grounded in reality. There’s also the question of why they don’t have a psychic on staff full-time. That’s just bad writing. It should be mocked, not forbidden. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-fictional-entertainment-never-encourage-supernatural-thinking/569872/10 "2011-02-02T14:36:44Z")
How idiotic! (Since I’m answering what somebody suggested to the OP, not him.) _X-Files_ is fiction. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-fictional-entertainment-never-encourage-supernatural-thinking/569872/11 "2011-02-02T16:31:23Z")
There’s nothing wrong with throwing a psychic element in an otherwise “realistic” show. The best **Mission: Impossible** episode did it, and that’s the reason it’s the best. Fiction is fiction. None of it is real – not even the most scrupulously researched police procedural. It’s the story that’s important, not whether they’re telling the truth. They’re not. ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-fictional-entertainment-never-encourage-supernatural-thinking/569872/12 "2011-02-02T17:38:27Z")
\*\*\*Good \*\*\*fiction should be internally consistent. If you have a show or book that throws in a supernatural element that does not follow the premise it can be jarring. Actually what bothers me about many of these types of entertainments is that never acknowledge the way the supernatural element should effect the whole world. I have no problem with a book or movie that has vampires, ghosts, or an interventionist god, as long as world makes sense. When the author/creator is trying to push a belief by offering fictional “proof” it tend to come out bad. Hearing the arguments of real world atheists or skeptics breaks disbelief when they come out of the mouths or characters facing obvious supernatural events. For me to enjoy a supernatural story it either needs to be world encompassing and changing, or limited/ambiguous enough for it to be believable that most people keep thinking the same way they do in the real world. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-fictional-entertainment-never-encourage-supernatural-thinking/569872/13 "2011-02-02T17:43:06Z")
Also, if done correctly, the supernatural elements of a story can give us a different perspective on our lives and our world, even if it’s clear that they are fictional. _Hamlet_’s ghost and _Macbeth_’s witches serve a purpose without the audience having to believe that they exist. Besides, one of the great advantages of fiction is that it allows us to think about things that aren’t real. Would we really be better off without _Star Trek_, because we have no evidence that the aliens it portrayed exist? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-fictional-entertainment-never-encourage-supernatural-thinking/569872/14 "2011-02-02T17:54:11Z")
It bothers me when it takes itself seriously (like _Medium_ or _The X-Files_), but not so much when it’s clearly meant to be fantasy or camp. _True Blood_, for instance, is full of ridiculous woo, but doesn’t take itself seriously, so it doesn’t bother me. When movies or shows with supernaturalpremises promote themselves as being based on “true stories” or “real events,” that bothers me most of all. I would put _Medium_ in that category. It might be based on a real person, but that person is a con artist and a fraud. That show bugs me because it gives credibility to a sleazy, lying grifter who has never solved a crime and gives the impression that “psychics” solving crimes is a real thing when it isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![llcoolbj77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/eb9ed0/32.png) [@llcoolbj77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/llcoolbj77)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-fictional-entertainment-never-encourage-supernatural-thinking/569872/15 "2011-02-02T17:55:09Z")
Where do you draw the line at what is supernatural? Even the shows that appear to be grounded in reality are not. I think those shows can be much more damaging. Take CSI/Bones/L&O for example. None of that stuff is real. No police department/Dept. of Forensic Science has a lab that fancy. You know how long it takes for the lab to tell cops that the sample of weed they sent in is indeed marijuana??? 4 to 6 months. If you are murdered in your home… no one is going to sift through your carpet to see if there are any foreign fibers, then “put it through the computer,” to determine that that kind of fiber only comes from one manufacturer in BFE, Virginia, and wasn’t there once that one bad guy who lived in BFE, Virginia. Shit doesn’t happen that way. They don’t use forensics to solve crimes. They use them to corroborrate confessions. But someone could very easily watch CSI/Bones/L&O, and think that is how it happens. I don’t think anyone watches True Blood and worries about the sad state of vampire politics. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-fictional-entertainment-never-encourage-supernatural-thinking/569872/16 "2011-02-02T18:06:35Z")
Supernatural means supernatural. It doesn’t just mean unrealistic. I would agree that few shows are truly realistic. Some shows promote other kinds of pseudo-science that aren’t really supernatural, but still bullshit (_Criminal Minds_, for instance). But “supernatural” aspects take things to a different level of unrealistic. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-fictional-entertainment-never-encourage-supernatural-thinking/569872/17 "2011-02-02T18:17:37Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > One criticism I’ve occasionally seen of _The X-Files_ is that it encouraged “woo” thinking: belief in ghosts, alien visitations, conspiracies everywhere, etc. The post that made me think of it cited the very existence of _Medium_ and _Ghost Whisperer_ as a bad thing (though since the former is outright based on a real person, that may be in a separate category altogether). > > So should entertainment that’s produced as outright fiction be under any sort of pressure to keep supernatural, spiritual, and similarly “non-rational” thinking out, or to deliberately “debunk” it? You mean like how _Harry Potter_ encourages kids to engage in witchcraft and be interested in the occult? > [@Double\_Foolscap](#): > > What about detective shows that feature a single episode where the psychic loon turns out to be legit? > > That’s kind of breaking the internal logic of the show, as the audience then have to worry about woo being used as a solution to crimes when previously they could trust that it would be something grounded in reality. There’s also the question of why they don’t have a psychic on staff full-time. Yeah, it’s an artistic offense, if not a moral one, for a story to break its own rules. Either a story is set in a world in which, say, ghosts exist or aliens have visited Earth, or it isn’t. > [@llcoolbj77](#): > > Where do you draw the line at what is supernatural? Even the shows that appear to be grounded in reality are not. I think those shows can be much more damaging. Take CSI/Bones/L&O for example. None of that stuff is real. No police department/Dept. of Forensic Science has a lab that fancy. You know how long it takes for the lab to tell cops that the sample of weed they sent in is indeed marijuana??? 4 to 6 months. > > If you are murdered in your home… no one is going to sift through your carpet to see if there are any foreign fibers, then “put it through the computer,” to determine that that kind of fiber only comes from one manufacturer in BFE, Virginia, and wasn’t there once that one bad guy who lived in BFE, Virginia. Shit doesn’t happen that way. > > They don’t use forensics to solve crimes. They use them to corroborrate confessions. But someone could very easily watch CSI/Bones/L&O, and think that is how it happens. I don’t think anyone watches True Blood and worries about the sad state of vampire politics. That’s a good point: it’s probably more “dangerous” for a work of purportedly realistic fiction to have people behaving, or things working out, in ways that would never happen in the “real world.” Maybe it’s safest to assume that **every** work of fiction is set in an alternate universe which differs, in a greater or lesser degree, from the one we actually inhabit. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-fictional-entertainment-never-encourage-supernatural-thinking/569872/18 "2011-02-02T18:45:16Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > That’s a good point: it’s probably more “dangerous” for a work of purportedly realistic fiction to have people behaving, or things working out, in ways that would never happen in the “real world.” Yep. There are instances where contemporary juries have failed to convict on evidence that would have been damning ten years ago, because the jurors expect the prosecution to show them the kind of stuff they see on _CSI_. ---
**Author:** ![statsman1982](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e79b87/32.png) [@statsman1982](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/statsman1982)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-fictional-entertainment-never-encourage-supernatural-thinking/569872/19 "2011-02-02T18:48:28Z")
I agree with the sentiment that fiction, by its very definition, doesn’t have to reflect reality. What a boring world it would be if we never permitted ourselves to escape reality through fiction! On a more general note, whenever one asks the question “Should be allowed …” I think he or she is obligated to outline just exactly what the course of action should be if the answer is “No.” The OP mentions networks being pressured to keep woo out of shows. By whom? The FCC? That’s pure censorship and I cannot support that. By a rational populace? Okay, but that’s not really pressure, but more acquiescing to the demands of one’s market which is how networks stay in business. Besides, I don’t see a call for the end of shows like _Ghost Whisperer_ anytime soon. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-fictional-entertainment-never-encourage-supernatural-thinking/569872/20 "2011-02-02T18:54:54Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > So should entertainment that’s produced as outright fiction be under any sort of pressure to keep supernatural, spiritual, and similarly “non-rational” thinking out, or to deliberately “debunk” it? I doubt Creationists became that way because they watched The Flintstones as children. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-fictional-entertainment-never-encourage-supernatural-thinking/569872.md?page=2)