# Should Fitness Be Considered Obligatory? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 6, 2014, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-fitness-be-considered-obligatory/700504 "2014-10-06T01:28:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-fitness-be-considered-obligatory/700504/141 "2014-10-09T12:13:13Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > No one is denying that fitness is good. What we are denying is that nagging and annoying people who aren’t fit is a good way to operate in society. Read back through the thread, I never advised nagging and annoying. That’s a misrepresentation of my views. ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-fitness-be-considered-obligatory/700504/142 "2014-10-09T12:14:48Z")
> [@butterfiles](#): > > My nurse last night advised me to drink less diet pepsi because I might form a kidney stone (I have no history of them). I drink soda lots and also some water. I am a healthy body weight but not active due to disability which includes breathing issues. > > Last night, she needed to take two cigarette breaks and does not see a problem with possible second hand smoke coming in from the outside through the air conditioner. > > She’s a nice lady. But come on. > > So yeah, the typical diet & fitness “advice” remains at about that level. So she’s a hypocrite. That doesn’t make her wrong. ---
**Author:** ![butterfiles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b3f665/32.png) [@butterfiles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/butterfiles)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-fitness-be-considered-obligatory/700504/143 "2014-10-09T12:39:02Z")
> [@Waymore](#): > > So she’s a hypocrite. That doesn’t make her wrong. I didn’t say she was wrong. She could be right. I don’t think so and not because she smokes or is a hypocrite. The research I’ve read shows that dark colas might contribute to the formation of kidney stones, but it is unclear how significant this is and if this is due to the cola itself or that people who drink colas tend to have inadequate water intake. And actually, I don’t think I would describe her as a hypocrite. She’s not telling me not to smoke. I mentioned this anecdote because I think it illustrates how much people commonly pass on advice & judgments which are misinformed, ignorant, immoderate, or just plain lack perspective. Opinions are like… ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-fitness-be-considered-obligatory/700504/144 "2014-10-09T12:48:01Z")
> [@Waymore](#): > > I’ll break it down. Telemark insists that I give him some sort of step by step action plan for dealing with somebody neglecting their health. Once I’m done giving him this plan, he’ll raise objections, which I’m suppose to to rebut, but he’ll raise objections to that, and so on. Maybe that shows that your fundamental idea is either too ephemeral to form a basis of a meaningful conversation or that your fundamental idea is unsound. 1. People in this culture are already—constantly—reminded about health, fitness, and weight. People who are unhealthy, unfit, or overweight are bombarded constantly with this fact. 2. People who are unhealthy, unfit, or overweight are already stigmatized and subject to social disadvantages. If you can’t or won’t make clear what specifically you want to add to any of that, then either your motives are suspect, or your fundamental idea is unsound. > [@](#): > > All that instead of just saying “Yes, people shouldn’t neglect their health, and people who say as much are not wrong to do so.” This is meaningless unless you specify what specifically this would entail practically and how it would be any different than things are now. ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-fitness-be-considered-obligatory/700504/145 "2014-10-09T12:48:29Z")
> [@butterfiles](#): > > I didn’t say she was wrong. She could be right. I don’t think so and not because she smokes or is a hypocrite. The research I’ve read shows that dark colas might contribute to the formation of kidney stones, but it is unclear how significant this is and if this is due to the cola itself or that people who drink colas tend to have inadequate water intake. > > And actually, I don’t think I would describe her as a hypocrite. She’s not telling me not to smoke. > > I mentioned this anecdote because I think it illustrates how much people commonly pass on advice & judgments which are misinformed, ignorant, immoderate, or just plain lack perspective. Opinions are like… Moderate exercise and a calorically sensible diet based on real food being good for health isn’t an opinion. And, may I ask, why mention her smoking if not to somehow impune her advice? Chekov’s gun comes to mind. Why not mention the color of her socks while you’re at it? Plus, recent research shows diet drinks can increase the risk of diabetes. ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-fitness-be-considered-obligatory/700504/146 "2014-10-09T12:50:00Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Maybe that shows that your fundamental idea is either too ephemeral to form a basis of a meaningful conversation or that your fundamental idea is unsound. > > 1. People in this culture are already—constantly—reminded about health, fitness, and weight. People who are unhealthy, unfit, or overweight are bombarded constantly with this fact. > > 2. People who are unhealthy, unfit, or overweight are already stigmatized and subject to social disadvantages. > > If you can’t or won’t make clear what specifically you want to add to any of that, then either your motives are suspect, or your fundamental idea is unsound. > > This is meaningless unless you specify what specifically this would entail practically and how it would be any different than things are now. See point 3 in post 140 supra. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-fitness-be-considered-obligatory/700504/147 "2014-10-09T12:52:50Z")
> [@Waymore](#): > > Read back through the thread, I never advised nagging and annoying. That’s a misrepresentation of my views. then we’re having difficulty understanding how you’d “enforce” this obligation for everyone to be “fit.” You propose making it “taboo” to be out of shape, but anytime behaviors are or become “taboo,” that results in ostracizing anyone who engages in them. IOW you seem to be seeking justification for bullying the fat kids. ---
**Author:** ![butterfiles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b3f665/32.png) [@butterfiles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/butterfiles)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-fitness-be-considered-obligatory/700504/148 "2014-10-09T12:59:10Z")
> [@Waymore](#): > > Moderate exercise and a calorically sensible diet based on real food being good for health isn’t an opinion. > > And, may I ask, why mention her smoking if not to somehow impune her advice? Chekov’s gun comes to mind. Why not mention the color of her socks while you’re at it? > > Plus, recent research shows diet drinks can increase the risk of diabetes. Recent research shows poppycock! p.s. I agree that moderate exercise & a calorically sensible diet based on real food being good health isn’t an opinion. I think that’s sensible and a fact. I mentioned her smoking because it’s hard for me take seriously unsubstantiated advice from an overweight smoker who works in the health profession. I’m silly & mean. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-fitness-be-considered-obligatory/700504/149 "2014-10-09T13:15:08Z")
> [@Waymore](#): > > See point 3 in post 140 supra. Point 3 in post 140 supra does not respond to my points. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-fitness-be-considered-obligatory/700504/150 "2014-10-09T13:19:45Z")
> [@Waymore](#): > > See point 3 in post 140 supra. > [@](#): > > 1. Making the issue seem so incredibly complex that we can’t even say what healthy means. Again, no one is arguing that moderate physical exercise and sensible diet aren’t good and healthy. People are constantly given this message. I agree with it completely. It’s not complex nor does anyone contest it. I think it’s considered obligatory today by the general public. The problem is, many folks aren’t following that advice. So, since you brought the subject up, what would you like me to do about it? In simple words give me some actions that I’m not already doing today that would help achieve your goal. ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-fitness-be-considered-obligatory/700504/151 "2014-10-09T13:20:10Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > then we’re having difficulty understanding how you’d “enforce” this obligation for everyone to be “fit.” You propose making it “taboo” to be out of shape, but anytime behaviors are or become “taboo,” that results in ostracizing anyone who engages in them. > > IOW you seem to be seeking justification for bullying the fat kids. I’ve never said anything about enforcement. Read the thread title, note the use of the word “considered”. Do you think that people should hold the same opinion about neglecting health that most do about things like brushing teeth and basic literacy? And can we please stop talking about fat people? I don’t know how many times I’ve said this isn’t about fatness. ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-fitness-be-considered-obligatory/700504/152 "2014-10-09T13:24:22Z")
> [@butterfiles](#): > > Recent research shows poppycock! > > p.s. I agree that moderate exercise & a calorically sensible diet based on real food being good health isn’t an opinion. I think that’s sensible and a fact. I mentioned her smoking because it’s hard for me take seriously unsubstantiated advice from an overweight smoker who works in the health profession. I’m silly & mean. I agree for the most part. Hypocrites are maddening. And I’m on a tablet, so cut and paste is a pain. Do a Google news search about diet drinks and diabetes, if you’re so inclined. ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-fitness-be-considered-obligatory/700504/153 "2014-10-09T13:32:06Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Point 3 in post 140 supra does not respond to my points. It does actually. Making the topic seem very complex when it’s not. Should it be considered taboo to neglect health? That’s all. I’m not asking if such a taboo already exists, I’m not asking if a taboo is an effective way to change behavior, I’m not trying to flesh out all the possible implications. Justthat one question. ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-fitness-be-considered-obligatory/700504/154 "2014-10-09T13:41:01Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Again, no one is arguing that moderate physical exercise and sensible diet aren’t good and healthy. People are constantly given this message. I agree with it completely. It’s not complex nor does anyone contest it. I think it’s considered obligatory today by the general public. > > The problem is, many folks aren’t following that advice. So, since you brought the subject up, what would you like me to do about it? In simple words give me some actions that I’m not already doing today that would help achieve your goal. I’m not asking if moderate exercise and a sensible diet is good or not. I’m asking if it should be taboo to ignore that advice. In the simplest words I have, take this action: do not act like it is a matter of taste to destroy your health. In adition to that, do not act like somebody who considers willfully being unfit a taboo is doing anything wrong. Beyond that, there’s nothing I can add. I can’t tell you how to respond in any particular situation or how to interact with another person. ---
**Author:** ![butterfiles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b3f665/32.png) [@butterfiles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/butterfiles)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-fitness-be-considered-obligatory/700504/155 "2014-10-09T13:45:28Z")
> [@Waymore](#): > > I agree for the most part. Hypocrites are maddening. > > And I’m on a tablet, so cut and paste is a pain. Do a Google news search about diet drinks and diabetes, if you’re so inclined. Actually, I read this a couple of weeks ago on that: > **[Diet Soda May Alter Our Gut Microbes And Raise The Risk Of Diabetes](https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/09/17/349270927/diet-soda-may-alter-our-gut-microbes-and-the-risk-of-diabetes)** > > There's a new wrinkle to the old debate over diet soda: Artificial sweeteners may alter our microbiomes. And for some, this may raise blood sugar levels and set the stage for diabetes. It looks interesting. But so far my rationale for thinking diet soda is not good (though I drink it but in lower quantities than I used to), has less to do with these studies which come out from time to time, but is more theoretical. I figure that millions of years of evolution have ill-suited people to non-natural foods & drinks, especially in the quantities we are taking in. So my hunch is that there are systemic consequences to diet soda but ones we don’t necessarily know much about. I’ve kind of had it with the ever-changing crap on nutritional science. I agree with a lot of Michael Pollan’s Omnivore’s Dilemma particularly the stuff on nutritional science and industry. On the original question, I think fitness is a fine goal. However, it means different things to different people depending on individual circumstances. I believe there are too many factors involved to make snap judgments. Such judgments might or might not be correct, but it is highly unlikely you can be 100% correct or close to it. It is also questionable whether or not the judgments even if correct have any beneficial effect. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-fitness-be-considered-obligatory/700504/156 "2014-10-09T13:45:49Z")
> [@Waymore](#): > > Beyond that, there’s nothing I can add. I can’t tell you how to respond in any particular situation or how to interact with another person. Since I don’t think I’m doing any of the things you say, then I think I’m in good shape here (no pun intended). I’ll just continue to act the way I do and interact with my friends as I always have, with mutual respect. I’m glad you straightened that out for me; I’ve been stressed about this and we all know that’s not good for your health. ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-fitness-be-considered-obligatory/700504/157 "2014-10-09T13:49:12Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Since I don’t think I’m doing any of the things you say, then I think I’m in good shape here (no pun intended). I’ll just continue to act the way I do and interact with my friends as I always have, with mutual respect. > > I’m glad you straightened that out for me; I’ve been stressed about this and we all know that’s not good for your health. Have you tried heavy alcohol consumption to combat stress? It works wonders. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-fitness-be-considered-obligatory/700504/158 "2014-10-09T13:51:29Z")
**Waymore** the word “taboo” has particular meanings, which you then vaiably claim you do not mean. How about we try to get a better understanding of what you think you are trying to say by getting you to identify which of the following statements you disagree with, if any. 1. There currently is no social taboo against being fat in American society. 2. There curently is no social taboo against being unfit in American society. 3. I can tell who is unfit and who is making an effort to become fit by looking at them and knowing what they ate for lunch. 4. A thin person is almost always fit. 5. If someone is on medication for hypertension or diabetes they are likely not making an effort to achieve fitness. Those are signs of people who are not taking care of their health. 6. Once I conclude that someone I have met is unfit there should NOT exist any social taboo against stating that to the person that they are unfit and unhealthy. If that shames them then that is their issue not mine. 7. There exists no reason to tell anyone my belief about whether or not they are unhealthy. I am not telling them because I believe it will serve any benefit to anyone. 8. If someone is fat the odds are great they are lazy and undisciplined. Which of those, if any, do you disagree with? Lastly a multiple choice: I believe that when I encounter someone who violates what I consider to be a social taboo, such as someone who did not brush their teeth or who appears to me as if they must be unfit, I should: a) Say something to them about it. b) Avoid the person. c) Only say something to them if they are a close friend or close family member or if specifically asked by the person for my thoughts on the matter, and otherwise keep it to myself. d) Only in the case of a spouse should I express thoughts about their violation of the taboo without being asked for my thoughts by the person. Thanks in advance for the clarifications! ---
**Author:** ![butterfiles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b3f665/32.png) [@butterfiles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/butterfiles)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-fitness-be-considered-obligatory/700504/159 "2014-10-09T13:58:28Z")
> [@Waymore](#): > > It does actually. Making the topic seem very complex when it’s not. > > Should it be considered taboo to neglect health? That’s all. > > I’m not asking if such a taboo already exists, I’m not asking if a taboo is an effective way to change behavior, I’m not trying to flesh out all the possible implications. Justthat one question. How do you define neglect of health? And how do you apply that to people, in life? See the thing is, I’m pretty sure taboos are damn specific. Like don’t commit incest or eat people. Even the less serious taboos are still specific, like women wearing pants in 1890 New York or using certain words in speech. I’m trying to think of a nebulous taboo & can’t come up with one. Also, I could get behind a general taboo or rule: Neglecting health is bad (however that might be defined). But to apply it to a specific person, how would I even know who to pick out for that? Your co-worker (acquaintance, best friend, love of your life, or joe shmo who just started) eating fries & then complaining about the walk outside to the parking lot during a fire drill might be indicative that there is a problem. Or maybe Joe underwent chemo two years ago, developed heart failure as a secondary effect of the chemo, find it hard to walk on some days, but is so happy to be alive that he has decided to chuck it all, he wants his damn fries. It’s not the same as seeing Joe sit down in the canteen/cafeteria and microwave a baby for lunch. And I’m not saying that you’re saying it’s the same. ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-fitness-be-considered-obligatory/700504/160 "2014-10-09T14:03:45Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > **Waymore** the word “taboo” has particular meanings, which you then vaiably claim you do not mean. How about we try to get a better understanding of what you think you are trying to say by getting you to identify which of the following statements you disagree with, if any. > > 1. There currently is no social taboo against being fat in American society. > 2. There curently is no social taboo against being unfit in American society. > 3. I can tell who is unfit and who is making an effort to become fit by looking at them and knowing what they ate for lunch. > 4. A thin person is almost always fit. > 5. If someone is on medication for hypertension or diabetes they are likely not making an effort to achieve fitness. Those are signs of people who are not taking care of their health. > 6. Once I conclude that someone I have met is unfit there should NOT exist any social taboo against stating that to the person that they are unfit and unhealthy. If that shames them then that is their issue not mine. > 7. There exists no reason to tell anyone my belief about whether or not they are unhealthy. I am not telling them because I believe it will serve any benefit to anyone. > 8. If someone is fat the odds are great they are lazy and undisciplined. > Which of those, if any, do you disagree with? > > Lastly a multiple choice: > > I believe that when I encounter someone who violates what I consider to be a social taboo, such as someone who did not brush their teeth or who appears to me as if they must be unfit, I should: > > a) Say something to them about it. > b) Avoid the person. > c) Only say something to them if they are a close friend or close family member or if specifically asked by the person for my thoughts on the matter, and otherwise keep it to myself. > d) Only in the case of a spouse should I express thoughts about their violation of the taboo without being asked for my thoughts by the person. > Thanks in advance for the clarifications! None of that is pertinent. What impact does my opinion on any of that have on your ability to answer a yes or no question? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-fitness-be-considered-obligatory/700504.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-fitness-be-considered-obligatory/700504.md?page=9)