BTW, just for your edification, ad hominem means to reject a claim based on some irrelevant characteristic about the person making the claim or argument.
What you quoted was not ad hominem, it was a critique of the nature of the argument you have presented, or rather failed to present, and of your relevant and pertinent behavior in the attempts made to discuss your opening proposition.
You could be wrong about the correlation with exercise and hp meds.
I’m 35, exercise frequently and am on blood pressure meds. My cholesterol and blood sugar levels are fantastic. Genetics do play their part. I’m also a vegetarian.
What results would cause you to change your habits?
The “what else” is the what correlates with long term outcomes better than say a cholesterol number, measures of cardiorespiratory fitness, of cental obesity (much more than BMI in isolation, as good of a screen and a tool to study populations as it may be), and of servings of vegetables each day
DSeid, a question for you. If I eat lots of veggies (5 serves/day) and walk an hour each day, but also eat donuts and cake, and am moderately overweight, how much difference would cutting out the donuts and losing some weight make to my long term health?
If my sugar indicated I was headed toward diabetes, if cholesterol were getting higher, or my blood pressure outside of normal range. So far none of this is true.
Essentially, eating things I don’t enjoy and engaging in activities I don’t enjoy, aka going through suffering in the present, isn’t worth some chance that I will be worse off in the distant future. It’s a cliché, but I don’t know what will happen tomorrow and why should I suffer today for something that may never happen?
I don’t think it’s right to bash on people who are fat, but I also think that being fat is not something that should be acceptable or left alone. Allowing yourself to be obese is just wrong, obesity isn’t just whether your larger than others, the important thing is that obesity leads to many health problems, the reason most of the people who can not do anything to control their weight is because they were already obese and didn’t do anything about it so it led to even worse conditions, or it can be caused by having obese parents (they’re obese… pregnant… genes passed down… unlucky fat kid)
Very funny, that’s like saying I smoke and there are no signs of lung cancer so why should I stop? How bout you take a couple minutes out of your day to do a little research on the studies that have been done on the effects of obesity, the average life span of people who are more obese vs not obese, and also cholesterol, blood pressure, and blood sugar is not all that is effected from being obese… Eating poor food and not exercising can lead to problems with fatigue, anxiety, depression, stress also if you’re very obese it is bad for your back and joints. You should be ashamed of yourself sitting here trying to come up with reasons for why it’s acceptable to be obese… it is not! you are just lazy… exercise and eating the right foods is necessary to living a healthy life. Grow up you sound like a little kid who doesn’t want to do his homework because it’s not fun. Well guess what sometimes you have to take responsibility and do what needs to be done, or you can keep going down the road you’re going and be some low life lazy bum. I saw low life not because you’re obese but because your unwillingness to eat healthier or exercise just reflects on your professional life (career etc.) if you have to write up a status report on a project you were assigned and you don’t do it cus it’s not fun, you wanna know what’s going to happen? you will be fired… ugh sorry about the rant but this kind of stupid crap gets me going
See, that’s were the fundamental disconnect comes in for me. I couldn’t disagree more. Politeness should usually trump honesty.
Now I know many people that disagree with that, some of them friends. But I think it is a character flaw, frankly. I don’t much respect unfiltered bluntness. Many people do, but I’m not one of them.
See above. If it is not a specific debate I try to make it a point not to denigrate someone’s sincerely held beliefs to their face, unless they are profoundly shitty and the person is being obnoxious about pushing them. I once got pretty pissed at a good friend of mine for making a much younger woman cry in frustration over just such a debate in college ( he’s an uber-militant atheist ).
I’m certainly not perfect and have had moments of bad manners and shitty behavior. But it isn’t something to admire.
I am sorry to be confused here - but why would the lab numbers change your mind then?
Do you really experience anything other than sitting as suffering? You’ve never tasted any vegetables, fruits, or whole grain foods that you have not made you gag? Your experience is your experience but if so I honestly am pretty surprised. I’ve not found that food needs to be high in sugars, simple carbs, and fats, and in extremely large portions, to be enjoyable.
Honestly I am not sure. Of course lots matters on how much donuts and cake, what you mean by “moderately overweight”, where the fat is (central being higher risk), and how much of the weight is actually lean body mass. As to the losing weight the data is fairly robust that even 5 to 10% of body weight loss maintained brings major benefits to someone who is obese even if they are still obese. OTOH “moderately overweight” by official criteria - 25 to 29.9 BMI? Exercising regularly? Eating mostly fairly well? Never smoker? I can’t see that giving up all donuts and cake and getting down to a BMI under 25 would have huge additional impact. Put it this way, in most studies the absolute lowest relative risk for mortality of all causes was at about a BMI of 24 to 25 (top normal range) and in some was 26 to 27ish (slightly overweight range) with the relative risk getting to 30%ish higher at a BMI of 30 and increasing more from there. (Also going up some as BMI goes below 21ish.) Now all sorts are grouped together under one BMI number, the fit and the unfit, the muscular and the little muscles with a belly paunch … but overall a fairly fit person in the “moderately overweight” group, eating mostly a fairly healthy diet, is doing pretty good. IMHO.
In your mind, what does that mean you should do if a friend of yours is overweight? People have said the same thing in this thread but I still don’t understand what it means in practical terms.
Right…you can’t judge health or even fitness by appearance. I exercise more than most people, but vigorous cardio and weight training, but I still look fat. I have a thin friend, who is not nearly as fit as I am, but you couldn’t tell it by looking at us. I’m also a tad healthier, too, as defined by fewer instances of contagious illness per year.
Oh, yeah, fitness does not equal health, though they overlap a great deal.
Mind offering any rebuttal to the specific scientific facts in there or the argument he builds upon these facts? Choosing to “ignore fanatics” sounds an awful lot like “ignoring information I don’t like.”
No, genetics no doubt plays a part. There’s also no doubt that a very large percentage of issues with blood pressure, cholesterol, type 2 diabetes, etc., are dependent on lifestyle choices.
You can always find some exception to a rule of thumb, but that doesn’t invalidate the point.
I would argue that it’s impolite to foster other peoples delusions, but I do appreciate your honesty. My sense is a lot of people posting in this thread basically feel the same way but would rather not admit it.
And I wish I were like you. I look at other people’s eating habits in wonderment. But no, there isn’t a fruit or vegetable I would prefer to meat, carbs, and dairy. Eating them is a sign I am not eating what I would want to be eating.
